My first Debate

[Quisqueya]

Taste of your own medecine!!

I'm Dominican, born and raised and I too am offended by the original post, TallDrink.

I live in Boston, MA, and yes there may be many "chopos"- but there are also Dominican International students studying at the local universities, I've also met several Dominican-Americans sending their kids to get their higher education. These parents want the best for their kids, bottomline. Almost all of them are bilingual, and there are many, MANY cases of the second-generation not speaking Spanish at all- perfect English.

So I think that the person that posted those comments made a lot of generalizations that only apply to a certain percentage of Dominicans.

LEO

Leo,

I am generalizing because that's all (most)the dominicans on this forum do when it comes to haitians. Its funny that you guys are fustrated and offended when people (especially a Haitian) can really put your cards on the table and put you back in your places. Most dominicans on this site obviously are living in Lala land. Basically, I'm giving them a taste of their own medecine.

IN regards to JenDiaz,

I can tell you just hate Haitians because that's what you were taught. You have no clue what so ever about what ur talking about. Sorry to let you in on something but the elite dominican would never accept you. What class are you from in the DR? If Haiti goes down what the hell you think is going to happen to DR. I know it hurts to be put in check by Haitian. Well, get use to it because I am going to let all u lower class dominicans know how you guys are really percieved by Haitians that could defend themselves and know the real deal.

To Leo,

Lessons must be taught to your lower class people.

 

[Narcosis]

In honor of the truth

Talldrink: Quisqueya is not only Dominican it is the name the Tainos had for the whole island in pre-Columbus time.

Actually it may be a good handle for our Haitian friend since the Quisqueya university is a center for higher learning in Haiti.

Quisqueya: One thing I do notice while in Haiti is the deep and vicious divisions among Haitians themselves. Like I have mentioned in other posts I know White Haitians and see how they treat and talk about their Haitian brothers. (Much worse than any Dominican would treat a Haitian in these times).

This is a major difference between the 2 countries. Although there is "social prejudice" among Dominicans the divisions usually stop there. No real racial division exist here as there are in other countries. I don't think it is the same in Haiti.

The common un-educated Haitian is very wary of the different social and racial differences to the point they will not even trust Haitians that grew-up on the Dominican side, and are always vigilent to how they are treated.

This sort of social paranoia does not really exist in the DR.

I also have been told there is much more hatred towards Dominicans in Haiti than the other way around, so your comment about how Haitians percieve Dominicans seems correct.

 

[Quisqueya]

Quisqueya University!!!

Talldrink: Quisqueya is not only Dominican it is the name the Tainos had for the whole island in pre-Columbus time.

Actually it may be a good handle for our Haitian friend since the Quisqueya university is a center for higher learning in Haiti.

Quisqueya: One thing I do notice while in Haiti is the deep and vicious divisions among Haitians themselves. Like I have mentioned in other posts I know White Haitians and see how they treat and talk about their Haitian brothers. (Much worse than any Dominican would treat a Haitian in these times).

This is a major difference between the 2 countries. Although there is "social prejudice" among Dominicans the divisions usually stop there. No real racial division exist here as there are in other countries. I don't think it is the same in Haiti.

The common un-educated Haitian is very wary of the different social and racial differences to the point they will not even trust Haitians that grew-up on the Dominican side, and are always vigilent to how they are treated.

This sort of social paranoia does not really exist in the DR.

I also have been told there is much more hatred towards Dominicans in Haiti than the other way around, so your comment about how Haitians percieve Dominicans seems correct.

Narcosis,

Hmm, you've distinguish yourself from the mass... LOL Yes that's where my name derived from the great Quisqueya University.... Ok, now that we've plucked the fleas off (you parasites know who you are) of us lets sit down and discuss the problems that you've mentioned above.

Yes, I must admit that we are very divided by race, class, and of course name. We are off springs of the french heritage and claim it as much as dominicans claim their Taino heritage. See the elite and the middle class could care less about mass. The same way the elite and middle class dominican could care less about the mass dominican population. The only difference b/w us is the dominican elite makes the mass think they are part of "la sociedad" and but in reality views dominican mass as an illiterate cocolo. The racial difference is not that far apart but we do keep amongst ourselves. But things have change now and it really doesn't matter what color you are anymore but whether you have money and of course speak french. Not that broken french that the poor dominicans and poor haitians learn in Quebec but the beautiful Parisian french even the french in the provinces are considered less elegant.

The dominican tiguerre thinks he will be one day accepted by the real spaniards descendants while the haitian poor know for a fact the he will never make it in the inner circle. That's why I laugh out loud when I read the comments made by these loser dominicans thinking that the are better than haitians. Little do they know that the elite dominicans see them in the same manner a poor campesino that can't spell is name to save his life. See that's the lie that's been sung to the dominican campesinos for years to make him think that haitians are the enemy but in reality the elite dominicans are using them to control that 2/3 side of the island. If the mass of dominicans knew that they where just a token of a game that's been going on for centuries they will wipe out all of the elite dominicans with their machetes.

See the haitian mass mistrust us because they are stuck in the middle. The haitian elite abuse them and the dominicans hate them. So basically, you have a mass of people that doesn't trust anyone but their own social group. I can predict one day they will eventually pay us all back for all of those years of mistreatment. Nationality doesn't really stands for anything its more about the class of people on both sides of the island and keep the mass on both sides at each others neck fighting for left over arroz y habichuelas sin carne....LOL

Yes, poor haitians hates the dominican because of the stories they hear from their brethen that comes back from the bateyes. But the elite and middle class haitians view the domincan mass(women) as concubines but to bring home would be an insult to our class and the dominican men as wanna be Don Juans trying to sleep and have kids by every woman on the island. Look at the dominican diaspora in the USA or Canada most fall under those criteria. To say you have a dominican girl or guy is to say that you have a sex slave nothing more nothing less. Its funny how the dominicans from the US love bachata and don't really know that it was created and loved by the dominican prostitutes breaking up homes of families on both sides of the island...LOL

To be honest with you its a shame after all these centuries we are still living in slave like conditions and mentalities. Lets see what will happen.

 

[Talldrink]

Quisqueya, you need one of these 3 things:
either take a good shyt
'release' some of your stress ('handle' it if need be)
take the stick out of your a**


dont forget to take a chill pill... Life went on for me. Sorry I have other problems right now, good that you have no troubles in your life. The best to you.

 

[Dominican Tony]

Talk about sarcarsm....

Here we go again, i truely was not going to respond to you, but you leave me no other choice after seeing so many arguments with no base......seems to me somebody (Quisqueya, or should i say Kiskeya to you my Kreole friend?) is really frustrated and releasing that frustration on Dominicans with little base on what he/she states on his/her posts here....you say you never knew Dominicans felt this way towards your people before you started reading in this forum and that the Dominicans in here feel intimidated by having an "Educated" light skinned haitian giving them the real deal out there (i have blue eyes along with many other Dominicans i have met and we still seen as average Dominicans).....it took me a while to stop laughing at such comment because i have several light skinned haitian friends that actually are confused with being Dominican or Puerto Rican.....vice-versa with me seeing how Dominicans are perceived in haitixchange.com, and? do i go in there and curse the living day lights of those haitian peepz? nope, i have way too many educated haitian friends to see you people through the eyes of a few internet forum bashing fanatics, mind you a few of my Haitian friends graduated from Columbia, NYU (which i attend), among other prestigious universities in this city and you will never hear them talking with that tone.

Let's start off with the last statement you made on bachata which i found very offensive and disintegrating towards part of my culture, then again that's all you have said in all aspects towards my culture; In reality bachata was listened to by the country-side Dominicans in the Cibao region in their "colmados" playing dominos or a simple family gathering which in return had little or no acceptance in the capital and among the elite Dominicans, same applies to Merengue Tipico....Whoa you really emphasize the Dominican prostitutes, if only you knew how many Haitian prostitutes i have seen both in the D.R. and the times i've been to Haiti, it's not even funny.

Next, in a different post you counter-attacked my argument on progressive Dominicans in N.Y.C. by stating that we all work on beauty-salons and bodegas, i laugh at such comments because yes a good percentage of the 800,000+ N.Y.C. Dominicans do indeed work in beauty-salons, bodegas, taxi drivers, and whatever other stereo-typical "Dominican job" if i may (2nd and 3rd generation Dominicans for the most part are bilingual Spanish/English)....

Now here's my cold hard facts as of 2004 we had 500+ Dominican-Americans signing up for the N.Y.P.D. exam (how i know? my cousin works at the N.Y.C. Department of Investigation); currently the top Hispanic group enrolling at C.U.N.Y. colleges throughout the city (again, from official sources at C.U.N.Y.); a growing political power in the city which has drawn attention when it comes to elections, not to mention the Dominican political figures in the city (e.g. councilwomam Diana Reyes, assemblyman Adriano Espalliat, councilman Miguel Martinez, etc.) apart from the various associations of Dominican-American doctors, lawyers, police officers, etc.....hmmmmm let's not get into sports and music, the talent speaks for itself.

Will i ever come in here questioning why so many haitians and haitian-americans from the diaspora feel ashamed to say they are truely haitian or even visit haiti? or why the crime rate is so high in parts of Flatbush, Brooklyn where the largest haitian community resides? hmmm or the fact that haitians make up approximatly 20% to 30% of the Bahamian population yet are neglected and abused by the overall population in that island country, same applies when they in Jamaica and other islands .....i can continue with the stereo-types that are perceived of your people just like you have done with mine in here, but i have much more important things to worry about, such as my studies and making my two countries (U.S.A. and D.R.) proud....U.S. Army National Guard soldier and proud Dominican-American!!

While i have come in here to defend my beloved Dominican Republic from people with mentality like yours, i have yet to put another country and it's culture as low as you have done with mine, i have been to Haiti before as mentioned earlier....my uncle is one of the top officials in the Dominican Air Force along with cousins of mine in the Army border unit; it was one of them and a mix of dominican and haitian friends that showed me around Haiti (i see dominicans own land and businesses in haiti too) which indeed is poorer then the D.R. both economically and population wise, doesn't take a genius to see this if he/she visits both countries or even minds reading the facts rather then improvising, i liked Jacmel and some other peaceful areas in the south of haiti, most of my haitian friends are from these areas, i liked the mansions i saw around the hills too...very nice and i will sure visit some other day when things calm down on that side of our island.

P.S. "loser" lower class Dominicans you so much refer by to all the Dominican members that post here is hilarious (i guess i'm lower class too, even though my family is one of the most respected in my home-town) mind you some of these peepz in these forums aren't even Dominican; but do keep enterntaining with your stereo-types on us Dominicans, Haitian or Dominican stereo-types won't do neither of us good....i'll respond some other day when i see some educational level debate going on. In the mean time, I might've just caused this post to be closed in the near future anyway. :knockedou

anthony

 

[JenniferDiaz]

I'm sorry for you.

IN regards to JenDiaz,

I can tell you just hate Haitians because that's what you were taught. You have no clue what so ever about what ur talking about. Sorry to let you in on something but the elite dominican would never accept you. What class are you from in the DR? If Haiti goes down what the hell you think is going to happen to DR. I know it hurts to be put in check by Haitian. Well, get use to it because I am going to let all u lower class dominicans know how you guys are really percieved by Haitians that could defend themselves and know the real deal.

You know, it is sad to see the way you think. You are just a product of the so-called Haitian intellectuals. You look at everything through those books you read from them, but you should start thinking independently. You think you know everything because of those little books you read. I do not say the things I was "taught", I say the things I see.

For you, if someone don't say what you what to hear, then that person "have no clue what so ever about what ur talking about". This is very typical of Haitians.

Have you ever hear the term "Middle Class", probably those book don't have that term, because they only use the words, "Elite" and "Poor". Haitians never agree because they do not have a middle ground, everything is polarized in their vocabulary. Things are not just black or white, there is a big area in between.

You are a slave of those who polarize you mind. It is harder to think independently, but you should start doing that. You will good for Haiti if you become an independent mind, not just another slave.

 

[Quisqueya]

You just said a whole Lot of Nothing

You know, it is sad to see the way you think. You are just a product of the so-called Haitian intellectuals. You look a everything through those books you read from them, but you should start thinking independently. You think you know everything because to those little books you read. I do not say the things I was "taught", I say thing things I see.

For you, if someone don't say what you what to hear, then that person "have no clue what so ever about what ur talking about". This is very typical of Haitians.

Have you ever hear the term "Middle Class", probably those book don't have that term, because they only use the words, "Elite" and "Poor". Haitians never agree because they do not have a middle ground, everything is polarized in their vocabulary. Things are not just black or white, there is a big area in between.

You are a slave of those who polarize you mind. It is harder to think independently, but you should start doing that. You will good for Haiti if you become an independent mind, not just another slave.

JenDiaz,

Once again you have have no clue to what you are talking about. You are so bitter. Is it because your parents or grandparents might be haitian like Trujillo's parents?

All your threads have been a whole lot of nothing. You are the one who have the slave mentality because you haven't given the reason behind any of your statements. :speechles

 

[JenniferDiaz]

JenDiaz,

Once again you have have no clue to what you are talking about. You are so bitter. Is it because your parents or grandparents might be haitian like Trujillo's parents?

All your threads have been a whole lot of nothing. You are the one who have the slave mentality because you haven't given the reason behind any of your statements. :speechles

Poor you..

 

[Quisqueya]

To Dominican Tony

Here we go again, i truely was not going to respond to you, but you leave me no other choice after seeing so many arguments with no base......seems to me somebody (Quisqueya, or should i say Kiskeya to you my Kreole friend?) is really frustrated and releasing that frustration on Dominicans with little base on what he/she states on his/her posts here....you say you never knew Dominicans felt this way towards your people before you started reading in this forum and that the Dominicans in here feel intimidated by having an "Educated" light skinned haitian giving them the real deal out there (i have blue eyes along with many other Dominicans i have met and we still seen as average Dominicans).....it took me a while to stop laughing at such comment because i have several light skinned haitian friends that actually are confused with being Dominican or Puerto Rican.....vice-versa with me seeing how Dominicans are perceived in haitixchange.com, and? do i go in there and curse the living day lights of those haitian peepz? nope, i have way too many educated haitian friends to see you people through the eyes of a few internet forum bashing fanatics, mind you a few of my Haitian friends graduated from Columbia, NYU (which i attend), among other prestigious universities in this city and you will never hear them talking with that tone.

Let's start off with the last statement you made on bachata which i found very offensive and disintegrating towards part of my culture, then again that's all you have said in all aspects towards my culture; In reality bachata was listened to by the country-side Dominicans in the Cibao region in their "colmados" playing dominos or a simple family gathering which in return had little or no acceptance in the capital and among the elite Dominicans, same applies to Merengue Tipico....Whoa you really emphasize the Dominican prostitutes, if only you knew how many Haitian prostitutes i have seen both in the D.R. and the times i've been to Haiti, it's not even funny.

Next, in a different post you counter-attacked my argument on progressive Dominicans in N.Y.C. by stating that we all work on beauty-salons and bodegas, i laugh at such comments because yes a good percentage of the 800,000+ N.Y.C. Dominicans do indeed work in beauty-salons, bodegas, taxi drivers, and whatever other stereo-typical "Dominican job" if i may (2nd and 3rd generation Dominicans for the most part are bilingual Spanish/English)....

Now here's my cold hard facts as of 2004 we had 500+ Dominican-Americans signing up for the N.Y.P.D. exam (how i know? my cousin works at the N.Y.C. Department of Investigation); currently the top Hispanic group enrolling at C.U.N.Y. colleges throughout the city (again, from official sources at C.U.N.Y.); a growing political power in the city which has drawn attention when it comes to elections, not to mention the Dominican political figures in the city (e.g. councilwomam Diana Reyes, assemblyman Adriano Espalliat, councilman Miguel Martinez, etc.) apart from the various associations of Dominican-American doctors, lawyers, police officers, etc.....hmmmmm let's not get into sports and music, the talent speaks for itself.

Will i ever come in here questioning why so many haitians and haitian-americans from the diaspora feel ashamed to say they are truely haitian or even visit haiti? or why the crime rate is so high in parts of Flatbush, Brooklyn where the largest haitian community resides? hmmm or the fact that haitians make up approximatly 20% to 30% of the Bahamian population yet are neglected and abused by the overall population in that island country, same applies when they in Jamaica and other islands .....i can continue with the stereo-types that are perceived of your people just like you have done with mine in here, but i have much more important things to worry about, such as my studies and making my two countries (U.S.A. and D.R.) proud....U.S. Army National Guard soldier and proud Dominican-American!!

While i have come in here to defend my beloved Dominican Republic from people with mentality like yours, i have yet to put another country and it's culture as low as you have done with mine, i have been to Haiti before as mentioned earlier....my uncle is one of the top officials in the Dominican Air Force along with cousins of mine in the Army border unit; it was one of them and a mix of dominican and haitian friends that showed me around Haiti (i see dominicans own land and businesses in haiti too) which indeed is poorer then the D.R. both economically and population wise, doesn't take a genius to see this if he/she visits both countries or even minds reading the facts rather then improvising, i liked Jacmel and some other peaceful areas in the south of haiti, most of my haitian friends are from these areas, i liked the mansions i saw around the hills too...very nice and i will sure visit some other day when things calm down on that side of our island.

P.S. "loser" lower class Dominicans you so much refer by to all the Dominican members that post here is hilarious (i guess i'm lower class too, even though my family is one of the most respected in my home-town) mind you some of these peepz in these forums aren't even Dominican; but do keep enterntaining with your stereo-types on us Dominicans, Haitian or Dominican stereo-types won't do neither of us good....i'll respond some other day when i see some educational level debate going on. In the mean time, I might've just caused this post to be closed in the near future anyway. :knockedou

anthony

The stereotypes on Dominicans and Haitians are not doing any good but some of the dominicans posting in this forum really need a reality check. You see most dominicans posting here have no clue about Haiti and haitians besides what they read or heard. Someone on this forum didnt even know that Quisqueya/Kiskeya is/was the name of the whole island and asked me why was I using the name of what he thinks is a dominican heritage. I am not bashing that person for not knowing but how can u bash a group of people when you barely know half of the story.

As for JenDiaz,

She barely could write a sentence without saying typical haitians act..etc. I guess you should know probably by seeing your parents/grandparents act that way growing up in Bateye #23.

Listen, ignorance must be dealt with by projecting a mirror image of itself. I am not dominican bashing but letting some people on this forum see the reflection of themselves. Until dominicans learn that they are not better than Haitians, nothing will be resolved or debated in a civilised manner.

 

[JenniferDiaz]

As for JenDiaz,

She barely could write a sentence without saying typical haitians act..etc. I guess you should know probably by seeing your parents/grandparents act that way growing up in Bateye #23.

LOL

This is another of the fictional things Haitians say, "Dominicans are Haitians".
In reality, this is a reflection of what Haitians want to be, Haitians want to be Dominicans. And they want to be Dominicans because they see Haiti has no future. Haitians do not believe in Haiti, because of their present and because of their history.

They might not understand why it is, but they just know Haiti does not work as a nation. But I have the answer for you: It is mentalities like yours, that doesn't allow it to work.

 

[samiam]

Washington Hghts made you want to vomit, P ricans are moving out - this statement is LUDICROUS! One of the only countries known for its clean people is the DR! you can go to ANY Dom's home (rich or poor) and they will have everything neat and tidy and CLEAN. Im sorry, I've visited many Haitian homes and I cannot say the same. Some of these folks have money, cant tell though, the smell is the same whereever you go... As far as the P Ricans moving out of Newark, Please come back to reality, these people own Newark, there is nobody moving them out.

It pains me to say that Dominicans are among the dirtiest people I've ever seen. Sorry!!
They may brush their teeth three times a day and take as many showers as they want. They may mop the floor and organize their house but look around. This country is covered with filth. Dominicans just love tossing cxrap out the window and pretend it is no longer there. There is not one clean piece of highway where you dont see trash. There is not one corner of the neighborhood with out trash and dont get me started on the beaches. Styrofoam dishes and cups, beer bottles, cans and just about anything you can dispose.
Most Dominicans live in poverty. And most poor neighborhoods here are up to their necks in trash.
I contracted the services of a cleaning lady and after a couple of potential candidates who didnt clean at all I contracted a lady that is just great at it. She pick up extremely well and leaves everything organized within the compounds of a 270sq.m apartmnent. But I had to lecture her on trash days and about not leaving trash outside the back door. Why? Because dominicans have no real culture of disposing the garbage.

We(dominicans) can collect it and remove it from point A to point B, but we cannot dispose the garbage.And disposing IS the most important thing about the garbage. Collecting and moving it, anyone can do it, but it takes a certain sence of responsability and cleanliness to dispose of it.
(if this sounded like a Seinfeld monologue, it was not coincidental)
So, what good is it to smell clean and have your teeth brushed when you are sorrounded by crap?

 

[Quisqueya]

Confused...

LOL

This is another of the fictional things Haitians say, "Dominicans are Haitians".
In reality, this is a reflection of what Haitians want to be, Haitians want to be Dominicans. And they want to be Dominicans because they see Haiti has no future. Haitians do not believe in Haiti, because of their present and because of their history.

They might not understand why it is, but they just know Haiti does not work as a nation. But I have the answer for you: It is mentalities like yours, that doesn't allow it to work.

JenDiaz,

You are wasting my time and digging yourself in a deeper hole. You can't even reason and hold a good debate. Your Haitian conspiracy theories are ridiculous. I think you are the one whose been reading to much left wing books. Please do not reply anymore because you are not saying anything.

Insults and stereotypes are the only amunition you have then save it. You've proven to me and your fellow dominicans that your dislike for haitians is just being a product of your environment.

You are a sick puppy...Haitians wanting to be dominicans.. Tu es folle.

 

[XanaduRanch]

That's Funny ...

So, what good is it to smell clean and have your teeth brushed when you are sorrounded by crap?

That's exactly what I have been wondering ever since my first post in this thread. Hmmmmm!

Tom aka XR There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

 

[Pib]

Now that the mudslinging is in full swing, the gross generalizations are flying around and the BS smells like Duquesa it's time to put this one to rest.

R.I.P Mr. Ed.