North Coast Upgrade

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Every time I have tried to book at the Casa Marina the agent on the phone will try and talk me out of it. I have to explain I have been there several times and happen to like the location. Only then will they proceed to book it. They always seem quite surprised I want to go back, even more surprised when I add the wife's name to the booking.
In conversations with Canuckian, Russian and European travel agents, I am asked for our various itineraries. To a person, 100%, they are relieved we do not stay in Sosua or Boca Chica, and about half are pleased we don't stay in Cabarete.

In subsequent conversations, when we know and trust each other more I inquire as to why they asked and all have the same response: "as a company we will not book hotels and resort in 'certain areas known for crime and other activities'." It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to read between the lines.

I don't make the rules. As a capitalist, my aim is to please the broadest market possible and learned years ago that two towns in the DR in particular are "deal breakers" for travel agents and brokers. I have no intention to argue with them to reconsider their decisions.

I'm in business, not a crusade.
 

jd426

Gold
Dec 12, 2009
9,528
2,795
113
Maybe Cobraboy can answer this , since he is in the business.

Why is it when you call some AI's Directly they have NO Vacancies.. Nothing..
( Im speaking of one lets say you have been to before so you have their Contact info and front desk # etc etc)

So You have to go through a specific Agent.. in the states.
the one I am speaking of is in Miami, and handles Ahmsa Marina AI's.. not sure if they handle them all..


Seems a little shady to tell people you have NO Rooms available.. you have to go through a specific Agency, so NO competition
and the price is what it is.. .
And when you arrive , repeatedly year after year you discover that over 40 % of the Rooms are Empty..
Just curious..
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Maybe Cobraboy can answer this , since he is in the business.

Why is it when you call some AI's Directly they have NO Vacancies.. Nothing..
( Im speaking of one lets say you have been to before so you have their Contact info and front desk # etc etc)

So You have to go through a specific Agent.. in the states.
the one I am speaking of is in Miami, and handles Ahmsa Marina AI's.. not sure if they handle them all..


Seems a little shady to tell people you have NO Rooms available.. you have to go through a specific Agency, so NO competition
and the price is what it is.. .
And when you arrive , repeatedly year after year you discover that over 40 % of the Rooms are Empty..
Just curious..
Simple.

These resorts sell huge blocks of rooms---I'm talking tens of thousands of room nights---to brokers and travel agents at a discount who then resell them.

If the brokers don't sell the rooms, they still paid for them.

So it can be accurate, indeed, for the resort to say "we're sold out" yet the resort may not be fully booked with clients.

The opposite is also true. A resort can "oversell" their capacity counting on a % not being sold by brokers. It can happen that someone tries to check in with a confirmed, pre-paid reservation and there is no room to be had at the inn. I've witnessed some real anger at some resort front desks.
 

Uzin

Bronze
Oct 26, 2005
1,386
20
38
For one, they do so with my company where they spend, on average, around $350 a day.


Vow, $350 per day per person on a week or two holiday... ! That is exclusive of flight and accommodations, how do they spend that kind of money in DR, if not on chicas or casinos. There must be a lot of luxury places with $10 water bottles I've been missing out... lol
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Vow, $350 per day per person on a week or two holiday... ! That is exclusive of flight and accommodations, how do they spend that kind of money in DR, if not on chicas or casinos. There must be a lot of luxury places with $10 water bottles I've been missing out... lol
MotoCaribe Motorcycle Adventure Tours

Exclusive of flight.

We are well reviewed around the world.

[video=vimeo;153665662]https://vimeo.com/153665662[/video]

$350 a day is not big money for vacations in the larger picture. Certainly $250 a day is not. Well, maybe to some $250 is...

It's all a matter of perspective, wants, passion and wherewithall...
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
3,515
521
113
Understandable as reputation is a bitch......why create more headaches for yourself ( the agent I mean )

Nonsense,
Casa Marina/Reef is widely marketed by the biggest tour operators in Canada and Europe.
Of course most of the volume goes to Punta Cana, for obvious reasons.
Airlines choose their routes on seat occupancy/volume and volume also woks for tour operators and travel agents.
Number of PAX booked.
Cobraboy has a niche market and a minuscule percentage of DR tourism.
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
3,515
521
113
Maybe Cobraboy can answer this , since he is in the business.

Why is it when you call some AI's Directly they have NO Vacancies.. Nothing..
( Im speaking of one lets say you have been to before so you have their Contact info and front desk # etc etc)

So You have to go through a specific Agent.. in the states.
the one I am speaking of is in Miami, and handles Ahmsa Marina AI's.. not sure if they handle them all..


Seems a little shady to tell people you have NO Rooms available.. you have to go through a specific Agency, so NO competition
and the price is what it is.. .
And when you arrive , repeatedly year after year you discover that over 40 % of the Rooms are Empty..
Just curious..

It's because tour operators book blocks of rooms in specific hotels for peak season.
That's why last minute you can get fantastic deals for not sold rooms, from tour operators.
The hotels have a guaranteed income for specific seasons from tour operators, even though at a lower rate than individually sold rooms.
As we were talking about Casa Marina, look at the dream prices they want if you book in advance on their website, in comparison to tour operator prices especially last minute or booking a room only without flight.
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
3,515
521
113
$350 a day is not big money for vacations in the larger picture. Certainly $250 a day is not. Well, maybe to some $250 is...

It's all a matter of perspective, wants, passion and wherewithall...

Right,
Consider fly in luxury fishing lodges, which of course is not North Coast or typically DR.
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
30,247
4,330
113
Remember, CB's tours aren't just 'beach time'

you get a sophisticated motorcycle, gas, guides, food & lodging....

Quite a package...... unique, to say the least.

and yes, a small target market by comparison
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Nonsense,
Casa Marina/Reef is widely marketed by the biggest tour operators in Canada and Europe.
Of course most of the volume goes to Punta Cana, for obvious reasons.
Airlines choose their routes on seat occupancy/volume and volume also woks for tour operators and travel agents.
Number of PAX booked.
Cobraboy has a niche market and a minuscule percentage of DR tourism.
While true, don't discount my relationships with other tour operators, resort corporations, travel agents, etc.

And don't discount my project which puts me in close contact with the Ministries of Tourism and Culture at the highest levels, AMET, CESTUR and others who are directly involved in or support tourism.

Many try to fit their opinions into a pre-conceived box as opposed to taking facts and basing an opinion on them.

Once again: when travel agents see fit to send clients to Sosua, the tourism drought will end. From my numerous conversations with them, much work will need to be done before that happens. I've had travel agents tell me they'd never even consider a free "fam tour" until that work is done.

It is what it is.

I've been coming to the DR since the late 80's and my first experience was Puerto Plata and Sosua in '88. The area was a different world back then and bears little resemblance to today. It's been dying for nearly a decade and folks in denial wonder why, make excuses and point fingers at everything but the actual reason. There is not one general metric that proves otherwise. But don't feel singled out. Boca Chica is under the same scrutiny, and "the powers" are concerned about the Bavaro/Punta Cana region becoming infected, the proof being some closures & busts there.

The term "planned re-gentrification" is accurate for the area. And I know of NO urban renewal/re-gentrification project anywhere in America where there were not pockets of push-back by locals satisfied with the status quo. Who remembers the Times Square clean up? Ybor City in Tampa? Little Havana in Miami? Old Town in Orlando? Virginia Highlands in Atlanta? Each and every one had massive objections, huge push-back, many alterations in planning and concept, took years to accomplish. While not directly apples & oranges, the scope is accurate: angst and pain come before renewal.

I don't understand why folks object to a master plan for the area creating a tide that raises all boats and boosts revenue flowing into the region. My advice: free up cash, keep your eyes open, and pounce on property when the bottom falls out.

But one fact is set in concrete: the area WILL change. To mix metaphors, one can howl into the night wind in protest, get with the program...or simple leave for greener, more fitting, pastures.
 

jd426

Gold
Dec 12, 2009
9,528
2,795
113
I wonder though
is there a lot of REPEAT Business with these $350 a day packages ?
or is it One and DONE.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Remember, CB's tours aren't just 'beach time'

you get a sophisticated motorcycle, gas, guides, food & lodging....

Quite a package...... unique, to say the least.

and yes, a small target market by comparison
We're really a rolling all-inclusive resort with fancy motorcycles.
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
3,515
521
113
While true, don't discount my relationships with other tour operators, resort corporations, travel agents, etc.

And don't discount my project which puts me in close contact with the Ministries of Tourism and Culture at the highest levels, AMET, CESTUR and others who are directly involved in or support tourism.

Many try to fit their opinions into a pre-conceived box as opposed to taking facts and basing an opinion on them.

You have a great business which offers a unique experience and "ride" for those who want something different than an AI package. :classic:
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
You have a great business which offers a unique experience and "ride" for those who want something different than an AI package. :classic:
I appreciate your kind words, but it's not about me.

It's about the human reluctance to change, the Kubler-Ross psychological stages off "death and dying." You know, Denial-->Anger-->Bargaining-->Depression-->Acceptance. Getting to Acceptance quickly will clear the head about the Future. Denial and Anger accomplish nothing and just wastes time.

I'm merely passing along facts that I know from folks in a position of not only knowledge, but of influence. And I'm not the only one with that knowledge.

The "powers" have made themselves perfectly clear for a couple of years now: what was once tolerated will no longer be tolerated. These people, with input from local DOMINICAN stakeholders have chosen a different route for the area's future. And, as usual, nothing happens in the DR without fits and starts and delays and confusion. But those are implementation issues, NOT conceptual issues. Big difference.

And keep in mind another Dominican cultural idiom: while they may be confrontational among themselves, they are rarely confrontational to "outsiders." As an outsider, I have to ENCOURAGE input, even if confrontational, on a near daily basis. The yang of this cultural idiom is the fact that Dominicans just don't care what "outsiders" think---even long-term residents---unless you have a bucket of money to invest. Then they care. As do we all. There may be some scattered exceptions, but not many.

Like many, I don't have a dog in that fight because I've voted with my wallet: except for an occasional visit to Sr. Guzman's law office, we don't frequent the area or spend any money there. In that regard, we're like a large % of the middle/upper middle class Dominican population. They don't, either.

I would encourage Sosua residents to attend the various meetings the MoT puts on regarding the plans for the region from a tourism perspective. They are free and open to anyone, and the presenters take and answer any and all questions.

Knowledge beats the frustration of shouting to the wind at night.
 

jd426

Gold
Dec 12, 2009
9,528
2,795
113
I just have one more question..

When approximately will we start seeing these 25 people with their $150/ day avg spending habits , who will be replacing every ONE monger who has been discouraged
and shamed from ever visiting this New Family Style Sosua.. ?

not even being sarcastic... nor would I hold you to this very optimistic 25 to 1 Ratio...

but just a general Idea... of when.approximately. they will be coming..
so we can tell the Restaurants and Bars to Stock up.. and start hiring enough people to have on hand.
( ok, maybe there is just a little Sarcasm)
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,580
6,005
113
dr1.com
I just have one more question..

When approximately will we start seeing these 25 people with their $150/ day avg spending habits , who will be replacing every ONE monger who has been discouraged
and shamed from ever visiting this New Family Style Sosua.. ?

not even being sarcastic... nor would I hold you to this very optimistic 25 to 1 Ratio...

but just a general Idea... of when.approximately. they will be coming..
so we can tell the Restaurants and Bars to Stock up.. and start hiring enough people to have on hand.
( ok, maybe there is just a little Sarcasm)

That's not a thing that happens overnight. The reality has to change, as well as the reputation, neither which happen overnight. I believe it is possible for sex tourism ( if you want to give it a name) to coexist with family type tourism but it has to be less in the open and less blatant. The parasites that accompany sex tourism are a large part of the problem- drugs, murders, thieves, home invasions....and foreign criminals.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
That's not a thing that happens overnight. The reality has to change, as well as the reputation, neither which happen overnight. I believe it is possible for sex tourism ( if you want to give it a name) to coexist with family type tourism but it has to be less in the open and less blatant. The parasites that accompany sex tourism are a large part of the problem- drugs, murders, thieves, home invasions....and foreign criminals.
I've always advocated a well-regulated, highly LE patrolled, safe and sanitary, glitzy red light district out of the main Sosua area, away and out of sight from the "regular" tourists for those who have to do the sex tourism thing.

Make it Disney-Meets-The Combat Zone. Limit access for security, check ID's for age and updated health checks for workers, and charge admission for keeping the bad actors, thieves, beggars and druggies out.

Think Amsterdam or Boston, make it a sub-attraction instead of smashing and harassing, hoping the sex tourists go somewhere else as is currently planned...
 

ju10prd

On Vacation!
Nov 19, 2014
4,210
0
36
Accountkiller
That's not a thing that happens overnight. The reality has to change, as well as the reputation, neither which happen overnight. I believe it is possible for sex tourism ( if you want to give it a name) to coexist with family type tourism but it has to be less in the open and less blatant. The parasites that accompany sex tourism are a large part of the problem- drugs, murders, thieves, home invasions....and foreign criminals.

The authorities could take a look how they dealt with a similar problem in the Dutch Antillies whereby they wanted to rid themselves of an open bar/prostitute culture. After an agreement between the catholic church (surprisingly) and the government they came up with a highly regulated business behind closed doors and a mixed marketable tourist package. I am told the Dominican ladies have now been outnumbered by Columbians and Eastern Europeans.

I somehow suspect it is too late for that here because of the drug/crime association and lousy image (especially amongst Dominicans), and the cleanup will continue without compromise at least for the time being in the interests of the rest of the North Coast.
 

oldschool

Active member
Oct 9, 2004
537
22
38
Nonsense,
Casa Marina/Reef is widely marketed by the biggest tour operators in Canada and Europe.
Of course most of the volume goes to Punta Cana, for obvious reasons.
Airlines choose their routes on seat occupancy/volume and volume also woks for tour operators and travel agents.
Number of PAX booked.
Cobraboy has a niche market and a minuscule percentage of DR tourism.

Are you trying to tell me that Casa Marina is the only AI on the north coast ?