that contrary to what shalena said, in over ten years, people have not asked me for anything in return for what they did to help me.
- Thread starter SantiagueroRD
- Start date
Respect or Resent?
that contrary to what shalena said, in over ten years, people have not asked me for anything in return for what they did to help me.
mariot offers this remark as an explanation
they only disregard your needs when they know that you need silence to sleep or work or whatever and don't care. how are they to know that they are bothering you, when nobody else is bothered? since nobody in the dr considers silence to be essential, they are behaving perfectly normal.
the fact that people do not know that they are bothering you does not mean that they are not. nobody is suggesting that it is done with malice aforethought. let me try this for size....if i am walking on a side street with my ten year old daughter, and some guy whips out Mr Johnson, and takes a leak in full view of my child, do i become unsettled by the event, or do i just dismiss it by saying that it is normative for grown men to urinate in public? or, when i come home and find paper cups and styrofoam plates littering my front yard, do i just say ??w, shucks, it is normative for people to throw garbage out their car windows??as to Chip...i am fully aware that there are several Dominicans who are as educated and as urbane as the day is long. we are talking in general terms here. or, so i thought.
they only disregard your needs when they know that you need silence to sleep or work or whatever and don't care. how are they to know that they are bothering you, when nobody else is bothered? since nobody in the dr considers silence to be essential, they are behaving perfectly normal.
the fact that people do not know that they are bothering you does not mean that they are not. nobody is suggesting that it is done with malice aforethought. let me try this for size....if i am walking on a side street with my ten year old daughter, and some guy whips out Mr Johnson, and takes a leak in full view of my child, do i become unsettled by the event, or do i just dismiss it by saying that it is normative for grown men to urinate in public? or, when i come home and find paper cups and styrofoam plates littering my front yard, do i just say ??w, shucks, it is normative for people to throw garbage out their car windows??as to Chip...i am fully aware that there are several Dominicans who are as educated and as urbane as the day is long. we are talking in general terms here. or, so i thought.
Not resentment, but certainly more of a 'wtf' type of feeling. Yes, let me explain.
Americans are very sensitive when foreigners criticize their country. A few do tolerate it, but most put into question your reason for making such criticism, more often than not being tempted to considering you 'anti-American,' with everything that implies in this age of terrorism, yadi yadi yada. So, when you come to DR1 and read from various Americans their discontent when Dominicans don't approve of their DR-related criticisms, naturally it becomes a 'wtf' moment.
There are the holier-than-thou crowd, often holding the progress of their 'first world' country on their sleeves. It's not so much what they say, but the matter that its said. Very often it leads to another 'wtf' moment and the usual "your home country may be more developed/organized/whatever, but I'm very certain that you had almost nothing to do with that; so please, calm down and take a few breaths" type of comments.
It's the little things that causes the 'wtf' moments, especially when the hypocrasy becomes are clear as gin.
As for the DominicanYorks, pretty much it has to do with the same attitude. What makes it worst is that DominicanYorks are Dominicans that assume the role of the 'hegemonic' culture. They think they can impose new forms of conduct, which would had been OK had their new habits been acceptable; but, often times they tend to be bad examples than anything else. Its as if their goal is to exacerbate the levels of mediocrity that already exists in Dominican society. They should be an example to follow, but most ruin it by bribing the Customs official as soon as they reach the airport, driving in erratic ways just because they can, being loud and obnoxious in places for decent people, wanting to put reggeaton or some other type of noise in places that traditionally have been the hangouts of decent people, etc, etc, and unfortunately, more etc.
May God be with you if a DominicanYork family moves into your neighborhood or building and they turn out to be of the obnoxious kind; because if you don't move out of your own will, they will force you to move due to their 'ways.' And when confronted and asked why they do it, the answer always is 'we're in the DR,' and there goes another natural 'wtf' moment.
Nothing causes quite a few Dominicans of middle and upper class extraction to become quite uncomfortable with DominicanYorks when these attempt to make the claim that because of their remittances the country lives. They swear that if remittances were taken off the table, the country would collapse; and that's part of the reason the arrogant among them use to justify their holier-than-thou attitude. Their mantra is that the country lives becomes of them, so the country has to take their idiocities. Well, not so fast buddy. Remittances spend on consumption are just over US$2 billion, while total household consumption amounts to almost US$35 billion. It's one thing if all the people in the little campo you left are living because of the 'chelitos' they receive via Vimenca every month, but please don't insult the segment of Dominican society that accounts for 94% of total consumption. They see all the La Sirena, Jumbo, etc stores expanding and immediately think, that's because of our remittances, when reality is quite different.
Even worst is the fact that regardless where in the world, if there's a sizeable Dominican community, while visiting you can't say that you're Dominican. Noooo, the image of Dominicans has been destroyed by the very Dominicans that live there to levels so low, it's pathetic.
Their inferiority complex has reached such heights, that if a tractor trailer crashes anywhere in the U.S. they will accept it as an act of fate, but if it was to happen anywhere in the DR, they will blame it on the DR by cursing, degrading and unjustly criticizing the country for something that happens anywhere. You can read these comments on the online versions of the newspapers, its quite pathetic.
Again, its the little things that causes the friction.
The solution? Avoid most of the people from both groups as if they were the plague, but it would be nice if better people would take over those groups. Dominican society has more than enough island-born and always-lived-on-the-island types of chopos, no need for more. Please God, spare us a little mercy.
This, by no means, applies to everyone; only those that the descriptions fits as a ring does on a finger.
Americans are very sensitive when foreigners criticize their country. A few do tolerate it, but most put into question your reason for making such criticism, more often than not being tempted to considering you 'anti-American,' with everything that implies in this age of terrorism, yadi yadi yada. So, when you come to DR1 and read from various Americans their discontent when Dominicans don't approve of their DR-related criticisms, naturally it becomes a 'wtf' moment.
There are the holier-than-thou crowd, often holding the progress of their 'first world' country on their sleeves. It's not so much what they say, but the matter that its said. Very often it leads to another 'wtf' moment and the usual "your home country may be more developed/organized/whatever, but I'm very certain that you had almost nothing to do with that; so please, calm down and take a few breaths" type of comments.
It's the little things that causes the 'wtf' moments, especially when the hypocrasy becomes are clear as gin.
As for the DominicanYorks, pretty much it has to do with the same attitude. What makes it worst is that DominicanYorks are Dominicans that assume the role of the 'hegemonic' culture. They think they can impose new forms of conduct, which would had been OK had their new habits been acceptable; but, often times they tend to be bad examples than anything else. Its as if their goal is to exacerbate the levels of mediocrity that already exists in Dominican society. They should be an example to follow, but most ruin it by bribing the Customs official as soon as they reach the airport, driving in erratic ways just because they can, being loud and obnoxious in places for decent people, wanting to put reggeaton or some other type of noise in places that traditionally have been the hangouts of decent people, etc, etc, and unfortunately, more etc.
May God be with you if a DominicanYork family moves into your neighborhood or building and they turn out to be of the obnoxious kind; because if you don't move out of your own will, they will force you to move due to their 'ways.' And when confronted and asked why they do it, the answer always is 'we're in the DR,' and there goes another natural 'wtf' moment.
Nothing causes quite a few Dominicans of middle and upper class extraction to become quite uncomfortable with DominicanYorks when these attempt to make the claim that because of their remittances the country lives. They swear that if remittances were taken off the table, the country would collapse; and that's part of the reason the arrogant among them use to justify their holier-than-thou attitude. Their mantra is that the country lives becomes of them, so the country has to take their idiocities. Well, not so fast buddy. Remittances spend on consumption are just over US$2 billion, while total household consumption amounts to almost US$35 billion. It's one thing if all the people in the little campo you left are living because of the 'chelitos' they receive via Vimenca every month, but please don't insult the segment of Dominican society that accounts for 94% of total consumption. They see all the La Sirena, Jumbo, etc stores expanding and immediately think, that's because of our remittances, when reality is quite different.
Even worst is the fact that regardless where in the world, if there's a sizeable Dominican community, while visiting you can't say that you're Dominican. Noooo, the image of Dominicans has been destroyed by the very Dominicans that live there to levels so low, it's pathetic.
Their inferiority complex has reached such heights, that if a tractor trailer crashes anywhere in the U.S. they will accept it as an act of fate, but if it was to happen anywhere in the DR, they will blame it on the DR by cursing, degrading and unjustly criticizing the country for something that happens anywhere. You can read these comments on the online versions of the newspapers, its quite pathetic.
Again, its the little things that causes the friction.
The solution? Avoid most of the people from both groups as if they were the plague, but it would be nice if better people would take over those groups. Dominican society has more than enough island-born and always-lived-on-the-island types of chopos, no need for more. Please God, spare us a little mercy.
This, by no means, applies to everyone; only those that the descriptions fits as a ring does on a finger.
I know numerous older Dominicans that are annoyed by their younger citizens dirty and loud habits.
bob saunders reminds
I know numerous older Dominicans that are annoyed by their younger citizens dirty and loud habits.
i know Dominicans who own clubs that cater to the educated, classy Dominicans. they are quick to ask anyone who behaves in an antisocial manner, such as cavorting and bellowing in the space, to either tone it down, or leave. if it bothers people who were born here, just imagine what it does for people who are just not used to such incivilities. the fact is, public spaces should be for all people. in most countries, even in the caribbean, people respect the presence of others. the fact is, somewhere along the line, some of these guys will migrate, and take these habits with them, wherever they go. i have a friend who teaches school in Upper Manhattan. i have invited her and her husband to visit the DR on a few occasions. it is a non starter, because she has told me that she will never be persuaded to go to the country where the bulk of her students come from, which is the DR. that bad impression of the country which she entertains is occasioned by the absolutely insufferable tendency to disrupt the environment with the bellowing and cavorting i referred to before. this lady has taught in the NYC inner city schools for 35 years, so she has seen it all. she maintains that she has never seen people behave in a similar fashion in her lifetime.
I know numerous older Dominicans that are annoyed by their younger citizens dirty and loud habits.
i know Dominicans who own clubs that cater to the educated, classy Dominicans. they are quick to ask anyone who behaves in an antisocial manner, such as cavorting and bellowing in the space, to either tone it down, or leave. if it bothers people who were born here, just imagine what it does for people who are just not used to such incivilities. the fact is, public spaces should be for all people. in most countries, even in the caribbean, people respect the presence of others. the fact is, somewhere along the line, some of these guys will migrate, and take these habits with them, wherever they go. i have a friend who teaches school in Upper Manhattan. i have invited her and her husband to visit the DR on a few occasions. it is a non starter, because she has told me that she will never be persuaded to go to the country where the bulk of her students come from, which is the DR. that bad impression of the country which she entertains is occasioned by the absolutely insufferable tendency to disrupt the environment with the bellowing and cavorting i referred to before. this lady has taught in the NYC inner city schools for 35 years, so she has seen it all. she maintains that she has never seen people behave in a similar fashion in her lifetime.
Haha, not every Dominican does things expecting to get something in return, many will help you without even caring or knowing if they will even ever see you again.
I dont believe you. $35 Billion??????? Nope.
Sounds like all the problems in the DR are the fault of the Dominican York.
For the most part you will get respect if you give respect. That goes for any culture in the world. I never met a Dominican that gave me a hard time or annoyed me. With the exception of some shop owners that tried to over charge me clothes. But my Dominican friend quickly came to my defense and they lowered the price. My 1st time coming to the DR in 2008 was a learning experience. I was told to stay in the toursist areas and never venture off under any circumstances. Curiosity got the best of me and I eventually went out on my own 1 night to explore the rest of the island. Everyone (even with the language barrier) helped me and pointed me in the right direction. It was the same story when I went to Santiago earlier this year. People said stay near the hotel for my safety. Again I took a stroll through the streets during the day and the night. No problems what so ever.
Its probably the way I carry myself and I do smile and speak to everyone as I pass them. Also I do tip and on occasion I will hand out food to poor folks or give them $10usd the day I'm about to leave. I grew up poor and now I'm middle class. I'll never forget where I came from. I will always show compassion for people less fortunate then me because I was just like them a few years ago. A lot of westerners need a course in human psychology 101. Generally poor people will have "annoying habits" because they'll do anything to make them feel better.Play loud music,(which is better then listening to jets take off all the time) beg, and since they're less educated they don't conduct themselves in a professional manner. Also the issue with littering come from a perception of low self worth. Go to any poor neighborhood in the west and you will see the same bahaviors.
Bottom line we as a human race have to learn to be more culturally sensitive to other peoples of the world. Everyone's customs will not be the same. You're in their country so its on you to adjust. Or else you can pack your bags and leave. I will be back in Santiago in September and look forward to meeting my friends there.
Its probably the way I carry myself and I do smile and speak to everyone as I pass them. Also I do tip and on occasion I will hand out food to poor folks or give them $10usd the day I'm about to leave. I grew up poor and now I'm middle class. I'll never forget where I came from. I will always show compassion for people less fortunate then me because I was just like them a few years ago. A lot of westerners need a course in human psychology 101. Generally poor people will have "annoying habits" because they'll do anything to make them feel better.Play loud music,(which is better then listening to jets take off all the time) beg, and since they're less educated they don't conduct themselves in a professional manner. Also the issue with littering come from a perception of low self worth. Go to any poor neighborhood in the west and you will see the same bahaviors.
Bottom line we as a human race have to learn to be more culturally sensitive to other peoples of the world. Everyone's customs will not be the same. You're in their country so its on you to adjust. Or else you can pack your bags and leave. I will be back in Santiago in September and look forward to meeting my friends there.
i didn't say they were not bothering you, i said that them bothering you is not a sign of disregard for the next guy.
this implied a certain type of malice, as in they are egocentric and do not care whether they are bothering you or not. what i observed is that dominicans are not as easily bothered. they let the other person be and tolerate him or her, even if said person is behaving different or strange. that goes for weird relatives, obnoxious kids, locos, mothers in law and gringos.
it is a totally different question if you should be bothered by the noise or not. where you come from, noise is an intrusion, so naturally other people being noisy when you are trying to work or sleep upsets you. the thing is that you can't change people in the dr, so the only way for you to deal with that is to either get used to the noise or find another place to stay.
as for your example, if this guy comes from a culture where it is natural to urinate in public, and people think that genitals are perfectly normal parts of your body, so there is no harm in little kids seeing them, than you might become unsettled by the event, yet the guy didn't do anything wrong. since you are visiting his country, you need to adapt, and either explain to your daughter what happened if she is disturbed, take precaution measures in where you take her, or leave the place if you can't live with the culture.
i recently had a discussion with an american, who said he was disturbed in spain, because women where bathing topless at the beach. he asked what about the little kids who are also at the beach? this was totally ridiculous from a european perspective, and i thought to myself "my god, breasts are basically made for little kids, what kid has never seen a breast?" there simply are different measures of what is appropriate behavior in different cultures, so when you visit a culture that is different from your own all you can do is observe and adapt. you won't be able to change dominican behavior, so all you can do is remind yourself that what they are doing is not disregard for you or an attack on your personal space.
mariot counsels
so all you can do is remind yourself that what they are doing is not disregard for you or an attack on your personal space.
let me repeat this. i made no reference to malice in this issue. however, i fail to understand the mentality that does not comprehend the simple fact that if you play your stereo at 120 decibels at 2 am, you just might keep someone else from getting a night?s rest.
so all you can do is remind yourself that what they are doing is not disregard for you or an attack on your personal space.
let me repeat this. i made no reference to malice in this issue. however, i fail to understand the mentality that does not comprehend the simple fact that if you play your stereo at 120 decibels at 2 am, you just might keep someone else from getting a night?s rest.
a quick question for you, mariot. why is it that in just about every country you can name, there is a noise restriction in a public library?
I think resent is the most prolific emotion in this country. Dominicans that can objectify things do respect gringos for what we have done as a country, but for the most part they have a short guy syndrome when it comes to us. Being young I think I am exposed to it much more than the average poster on this board.
Bro, those people dont have anything to do the next day. That is why time doesnt matter to them.
I really don't know the answer to the OP questions (since I am not American), but I find weird that you expect people to respect you for what you have done as a country. Let me explain, when I meet someone, I judge him as an individual, I don't run back to a history book to evaluate the respect he should receive.
Let's say, I meet you, I dislike YOU for some reasons, wouldn't it wrong to assume, it is based on your nationality ?
I don't expect anybody to respect me for what my people have done. I never said that this respect is something we merit either. I also respect anyone I meet on the basis of them being human. I was just literally responding to the question.
I am with you Bx, but it is been my experience that Americans have a quicker tendency to any negative things from a foreigner as Anti-Americanism.
I get this all the time, people that visited to Paris, tell me all the times that Parisians are not friendly (and I agree, except me of course
); yet, when some of my American friends get that, they always attribute it to their nationality. Even I get into arguments when I am visiting my hometown on daily basis, because I didn't like the attitude/tone of voice I received