So seriously,

[greydread]

.I'l respectfully disagree with you.
The Unfulfilled Promises of Hugo Chavez | Venezuela News

Opinions vary but facts are facts. I try to make it a point not to place too much stock in these stories as told by disgruntled ex-employees. When the country hit 93% literacy in 2002 (there's counties in Virginia with lower literacy than that) it was evident that something worked.

The study attached lists the fact that the top 20% of the country's rich own 53% of the assets like it's a major disparity. I don't think they did any comparison study in the US or they might have been very surprised.

Chavez party's losses in the recent election is a direct result of his efforts to educate his people. Now they're too smart for the "okie-doke" as he tried to subvert his own term limit. This is truly democracy in action. Hopefully his successors will be a lot less heavy handed and more economically progressive. When he first came into office he immediately alienated domestic business leaders. Not a good start at all. I think that the pro's outweigh the cons by far. Evo Morales is aiming for similar results in the fight against illiteracy in Bolivia. Hey this reading thing is catching on and it's something for the entire region to strive for. The examples are there. At least they're putting the health, education and well being of their people first. What the heck else is a government for?




Venezuela Website

 

[greydread]

What makes you think I only read mainstream news sources. I source left, right, and independent news sources and draw my own conclusions based on what makes sense to me. I'm not a conspiracy behind every tree person like yourself. Chavez or Castro could easily have allowed Aristide to live in their countries.

Not without really ticking off the USA. I'm sure that his briefing on the USAF transport to Africa included a detailed account of what their response to his unauthorized return to the region would be.

There are low people in high places and they're not polite to everyone. Maybe it'll show up on "wikileaks".

 

[mountainannie]

I could not source this directly from Wikileaks as the main site was not working and the mirror sites do not have a search function.. however it was posted on one of the Haiti forums by a "usually reliable source"

Wikileaks

Reuters
The top foreign policy advisor to Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff and her predecessor Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva described former Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide as "a mobster." Photo: Reuters
The top foreign policy advisor to Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff and her predecessor Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva described former Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide as ?a mobster.?
Brazilian daily Folha de Sao Paulo on Friday quoted a document written by Dennis W Hearne, the current US consul in Rio de Janeiro, who was at the time political advisor to the US embassy in Brasilia.
According to the document, made public by the whistle-blower website WikiLeaks, Brazilian presidential advisor Marco Aurelio Garcia claimed in 2005 that Aristide ?orders assassinations by cell phone.?
Aristide is currently hoping to return to Haiti from his exile in South Africa, although he has no passport and cannot return for now.
Garcia visited Haiti in 2005 and met with representatives of the local elite and with United Nations officials in the country. His visit was meant to brace Brazilian plans for the return of Aristide, who was ousted in 2004.
Before the visit, Brazilian officials believed that Aristide was ?a political reality that might have to be considered as a factor in political dialogues,? the document says.
However, informal contacts in Port-au-Prince led Garcia to give up on the idea. Upon his return from Haiti, the advisor described Aristide as ?a shadow over the country? that should be ?exorcised.? The Brazilian official held the view that he must not be allowed back into Haitian politics under any circumstances, the document says. -

 

[mountainannie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/31/AR2011013103
815.html
broken link

Lawyer: Aristide still in Africa, wants to return
The Associated Press - January 31, 2011

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti -- A U.S. lawyer for former Haitian president
Jean-Bertrand Aristide says his client is still in South Africa despite
rumors that he had left exile.

But Ira Kurzban says his client wants to return immediately. He says Haitian
officials agreed to issue Aristide a diplomatic passport but none has been
sent.

Haitian officials could not immediately be reached for confirmation.

Aristide was ousted by armed rebels in 2004, leaving aboard a U.S. plane.

Speculation that he would return to Haiti heightened after ex-dictator
Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier came back from an even longer exile.

Over the weekend, Internet rumors spread citing a Venezuelan news report
that Aristide had traveled to the nearby island of Cuba.

 

[Mariot]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/31/AR2011013103
815.html
broken link

Lawyer: Aristide still in Africa, wants to return
The Associated Press - January 31, 2011

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti -- A U.S. lawyer for former Haitian president
Jean-Bertrand Aristide says his client is still in South Africa despite
rumors that he had left exile.

But Ira Kurzban says his client wants to return immediately. He says Haitian
officials agreed to issue Aristide a diplomatic passport but none has been
sent.

Haitian officials could not immediately be reached for confirmation.

Aristide was ousted by armed rebels in 2004, leaving aboard a U.S. plane.

Speculation that he would return to Haiti heightened after ex-dictator
Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier came back from an even longer exile.

Over the weekend, Internet rumors spread citing a Venezuelan news report
that Aristide had traveled to the nearby island of Cuba.

if he returned, there would be an interesting pattern of him being ousted during republican us governments, and being able to return when a democrat is in office.

 

[RacerX]

I think his first return was during Bill Clinton's days.

 

[pedrochemical]

Rearrange - fan - hits - sh!t - the

BBC News - Haiti 'gives ex-President Aristide new passport'

 

[mountainannie]

Michael Deibert, Writer: Haiti’s Aristide should be greeted with prosecution, not praise

 

[greydread]

Michael Deibert, Writer: Haiti?s Aristide should be greeted with prosecution, not praise

Okay so I read that piece and to give it relevance (to me) I backdated it by 235 years imagining Aristide as George Washington, leader of a struggling new nation. In his employ are the Continental Army (PNH), the colonial militia (USPGN) and a few brigades of Hessian mercenaries (Bale Wouze). The fearsome Redcoats and their Loyalist conscripts are sweeping down from the North and the Continental Army stages the main battle while the Militia secures the Capital and the leadership while the Hessians fight in skirmishes at the outskirts of the main battle sites.

The Continental Army is successful at routing the Redcoats and under retreat their Loyalist conscripts are caught and engaged by the Hessian merc's in small cities and towns where they live and are overwhelmed. The occupants of those skirmish sites are rife with known collaborators and the retribution of the undisciplined mercenaries extends to the civilian populations. As mercenaries, they are no more than hired thugs (to counteract the opposing thugs) and act...well...like thugs do, robbing, raping, murdering and torturing at will in drunken orgies of evildoing. After all it is a war.

In that context should General Washington be held at fault for their actions by the grateful Nation he's fought so hard to protect after throwing the oppression of the evil King George III off their backs? Just a thought. And if they do decide to prosecute him, who would do it when he (Gen. Washington) represents the only true democratic leadership they've known in over half a century?

I don't doubt the author's sincerity but I do think his historical perspective could be a bit broader and more objective.

 

[mountainannie]

That's a question I actually asked myself. I couldn't really find much of a reason in my research - except for military uprisings and such but it seemed like the people really like him and wanted him to be leader. Also that he connected Haiti to the rest of the world politically... Anyone can come up with a clear reason?

sun palace cancun​

This is a long and complicated story... you might want to read Deibert's book if you are really interested...

or google the wiki which is pretty accurate

or read the official US version here Haiti

Remember that Haiti is really two countries.. the elite.. maybe 15 to 20..who control the economy.. and the rest.. who don't Aristide spoke for the REST



short story.. Aristide ONE.. firely leftist priest preaching Liberation Theology takes bold stand against Duvalier and wins what is touted as the first democratic election with something approaching 68%.. 1990

International (read Capitalist) community trembles .... aid slows
JBA introduces Kreyole as an official language and Voodo as a recognized religion.. starts lots of education and housing projects..

He is accused of fomenting class warfare,
He is removed from priesthood.

He is overthrown by military coup and goes into exile in the US 1991

US turns over the deposits which Haiti has in the US to JBA. (nine million? 20 million..? well// lots of money which JBA uses for lobbying to get himself back into power. US Black Congressional Caucus tells candidate Clinton that promising to restore JBA to power is part of the price of their support in the upcoming election.

Clinton makes said promise and restores JBA with help US embargo UN resolution and then intervention of Marines 1994

JBA Now Aristide 2, returns, married (to a higher class Haitian from exile, whom some blame for his fall.. this echos the hostility against baby docs wife) As a condition of his return he has signed onto lots of structural adjustment projects for the world bank.. ie he has agreed to become a Capitalist.. sell off state business, reduce tarrifs ...

which leads him to abandon his base

He then abolishes the army.. the only sure source of another coup.. and then arms his own personal band from the poor.. Came to be known as the Chimeres from the French word ghosts.. who rapidly get well, out of control

served his term out.. for the last two years.. then was replaced by Preval, who was his right hand guy.. JBA ruled by proxy telephone.. As Congressional midterm elections were deemed to be rigged, since the Lavalas party got such a high percentage,, along with violence and stuffed ballot boxes, the international community started channelling aid away from the government into the Non Governmental organizations.. (giving rise to the current situation.. a government by NGOs)

He then won a second election in 2001 and was ousted after four years. There is a five year Presidential term in Haiti

He has been variously accused of being heavily involved in the drug trade
Drug allegation gave US leverage on Aristide - The Boston Globe
of having caused the loss of millions of dollars of life time savings by promoting a ponzi scheme of cooperative banks
Aristide Must Go | The Weekly Standard
of completely repressing press freedom
PRESIDENT PUT ON PRESS PREDATOR LIST. | Goliath Business News
of taking kickbacks from the State telephone company
CorpWatch?:?HAITI: Haiti Telecom Kickbacks Tarnish Aristide

By the time of the second coup, he was protected by as many as 60 paid mercenaries from the US Steele Corporation
Subliminal News - Steele Foundation CEO on Aristide and the Coup: 'I Can't Comment on That'
each costing $10,000 US a day

George Washington he was not

 

[carepharmarx]

Thanks for posting i am new to this forum keep posting more like this..

 

[kevin9454]

Looking ahead to your updates! ! !

 

[greydread]

So seriously.

In the advent of the Earthquake/ tsunami/ nuclear crisis in Japan, rioting and civil unrest all throughout the Middle East and Northern Africa, U.S. gov't budget standoff and financial problems and the usual spate of murders, kidnappings and planes falling out of the sky Haiti has gone quiet and a month after the vote count delay was announced (it seems there are more ballots than people due to the exuberance of ballot box stuffers there) there is silence.

Baby Doc returned, Aristide returned, squatters are getting $500US to move from the refugee camps and there is no new President between Manigat and Martely. Could it be that a deal is being brokered by all aforementioned parties?

 

[mountainannie]

in the votes that were counted, it was very very close between the two candidates... certainly the international community and the"elite" would prefer Manigat, who is law professor... but the "masses" peuplela.. prefer Martelly, the cross dressing kompa singer.... BUT it does seem that there is going to a calm acceptance of either one as the duly elected President.

The chat on the list servs now is about deeper subjects.. such as changing the mindset of the Haitians.. so that they look for GOOD jobs rather than just any job, as to where indeed they can get birth control information and implement it if they want it.. since the majority of the country is Catholic, while many of the groups that are helping are Evangelicals.. and neither will provide any sort of help in this issue.. and what is to become of the 500,000 est. "orphans" many of whom are not orphans at all.

Duvalier is now under house arrest with charges pending. Aristide is quiet.. although many of his supporters from the International Left still bring up the issue of the coup, aka kidnapping.. but there are more vocal Haitians who are on the ground there who are denying that it was a coup, talking about the charges that might, indeed, be placed against Aristide as well.

There are many more projects which have been approved now, with the observation of the international community, which are going to go, in part at least, through the central government, and which will require very strict accounting... which is a good thing, certainly.

Haiti is now free of debts from the international community. The money that is coming in now is in the form of grants, not loans. So there really is hope.

Many of the people who are living in camps do indeed have homes that have been certified as habitable, or repairable *is that a word? ... but are hoping that there will be some sort of hand out from the NGOs or the government of a free house. This is going to be done only very slowly.. and will probably be based in areas other than in Port au Prince.

Plus, of course, people in the camps are being provided for with food and water, so expect that the camps are going to be there for a whole lot longer.

There is a continuing problem with rapes and violence against women in the camps so that may be one incentive to get people to move out.. at least there does not seem to be big cry from Minustah to get in there and patrol.

There is a new police force, which has been training over the past years. And there is now talk of re instating the army, which Aristide disbanned. If for nothing else than to give employment for many of the young men who are without jobs.. There is a deep fear of the army since it was traditionally used against the people./// for the predatory state.

Cholera deaths continue but at a much much slower pace.

There are hospitals now being built... and the public health sector.. which was never free but was at least available... is getting back on its feet. It was completely decimated by the free aid that came in from abroad.. with the NGOs not having the forsight or willingness to work with the fragile system that was in place and the doctors having to close the hospital in PAP since they had not been paid.

Everyone seemed to be screaming about the corruption of the tax collectors.. and certainly there has been a lot of aid that has been held up .. a lot of equipment that spent months in the hands of a corrupt customs system that had a varying price on letting the stuff out. Based on what the market would bear.. But those taxes.. or the portion of those taxes which actually make it to the books.. are about the only source of income that the government has... since more than 75% of the labor force is working in the informal sector..

The vote should be announced this week.