Taino Descendants: Dead or Alive?

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

The third world exists due to colonialism and its associated atrocities, as I said above, it exists in a direct dialectic opposition to the first world.....

Conversely, if the First World did not exist then the Third World would be the first world and all would be well with the world???

Afghanistan was never "colonized". And what a paradise it is!!! Thailand was never colonized either, and is not exactly the wealthiest nation on the planet.

Diablo, I don't know if I should call you a communist, since you wrote that class does not matter. (A real communist would have written that a "worker" in Detroit and a "worker" in Santo Domingo have more in common with each other than they do with the elites of either country - but you write the opposite.) But, like a communist, there are basic truths about what you write followed by conclusions that are way too sweeping and utopian.

Do you really think that there would not be winners and losers in any world dynamic? If the Caribs had subjogated the Arawaks and then left, you'd be writing how the Arawaks would be a world economic power were it not for the exploitative Carib yolk!

 

[diablorojo]

This is a really interesting article......





http://www.kacike.org/FerbelEnglish.html




KACIKE: Journal of Caribbean Amerindian History and Anthropology ISSN 1562-5028
Special Issue edited by Lynne Guitar
NEW DIRECTIONS IN TAINO RESEARCH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not Everyone Who Speaks Spanish is from Spain:
Ta?no Survival in the 21st Century Dominican Republic
Dr. P. J. Ferbel


PDF Version for printing 425 KB

Introduction

The national identity of the Dominican Republic is based on an idealized story of three cultural roots--Spanish, African, and Ta?no--with a selective amnesia of the tragedies and struggles inherent to the processes of colonial domination and resistance.
[snip]

Adjunct Assistant Professor
Black Studies
Portland State University
P.O. Box 751, Portland, OR 97207-0751
United States of America
Telephone: (503) 234-9525 (503) 725-4003
Archivo Hist?rico de Santiago
Encargado, Dpto. Antropolog?a y Arqueolog?a
#124 C, Restauraci?n, Santiago, Rep?blica Dominicana
E-Mail: pferbel@yahoo.com

Citation
Please cite this article as follows (and include paragraph numbers if necessary):
.
Ferbel, P. J. (2002). Not Everyone Who Speaks Spanish is from Spain: Ta?no Survival in the 21st Century Dominican Republic. [51 paragraphs]. KACIKE: The Journal of Caribbean Amerindian History and Anthropology [On-line Journal], Special Issue, Lynne Guitar, Ed. Available at: http://www.kacike.org/FerbelEnglish.html [Date of access: Day, Month, Year].
.
? 2002. P. J. Ferbel, KACIKE.
-------------------------------




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[diablorojo]

Porfio....

This is pretty off topic, but Afghanistan was colonized, it was a victim of the "Great Game".....fought over by Russia and England, and debilitated by foreign provoked civil war.....Russia and England, the USA and USSR, then Iran and Pakistan all attempted to use it as a puppet buffer state..... You have to understand that colonial processes are not set in stone, they vary but remain the same part of the evolutionary processes of capitalism.


I believe that there is a better road towards a global community than through exploitation..... the problem is that the nations which benefit from the present system of mass exploitation will do all they can to prevent any alternative.....

If you would like to discuss this, send me a private message.... I don't think this has anything to do with Tainos.......colonialism can't be avoided when discussing them, but not generalizations like this.......

 

[ajicaribe]

Thanks

Thanks for the information Diablorojo.

This is very good informative reading.

Cheers
Aj.

 

[NALs]

In case anyone stumbles upon this old thread, now in 2015 various DNA based studies have been done on Dominican and other Latin American populations. In the Polls Forum of DR1 there is a thread about Dominican history, in the more recent pages a couple or so of these studies are cited there. Anyone interested should take a peek.

In the mean time, these are typical Dominican genetic results. You be the judge whether Taino DNA still exist among Dominicans. Their names and faces are partially covered to protect their privacy. As is clearly visible, having Taino (or Native American) features express themselves is probably a case of chance. While every Dominican with visible Taino features definitely has some Taino genes, most Dominicans with Taino genes show very little if any Taino features. That's simply how DNA and phenotype works.

Every single Dominican with whom I'm sharing has Taino blood, and very rarely does it falls below 5% or above 10% of each genome. This is regardless of looks, which at first was the most surprising part but not anymore.

I purposely choose mostly dark skin Dominicans because whenever people doubt if Dominicans have Taino DNA (or even if Dominicans are truly mixed), its always concerning the darker folks. But, like I said, Taino DNA is present regardless of looks.

Taino DNA outside the Spanish-speaking Caribbean is negligible though, as in near or at 0% with a few exceptions.

 

[bronzeallspice]

I've been thinking for a while now to do a genetic DNA. Should be interesting.

Thanks, Nals!

 

[kfrancis]

Observation from the Frontier

Interesting old thread. However if anyone is interested here are a couple of books in my library on the subject that they might like to acquire.

THE TAINOS
Rise and Decline of the People Who Greeted Columbus

Author: Irving Rouse
Yale University Press
New Haven and London

ISBN 0-300-05696-6

And a Great Coffee Table Book

TAINO
Pre-Columbian Art and Culture from the Caribbean

The Monacelli Press, Inc. and El Museo del Barrio

ISBN 1-885254- 82-2

Out this way we are fortunate to have many Taino sites in the Bararuco Mountain region. A few years ago I was invited to visit an Avocado orchard that had been planted on one such site over 50 years ago. It was hand tilled using mules and the owner told me they found numerous artifacts at that time. As we walked the site to a large circle of stones from which you could see the ocean I found a part of what is a pipe and several shards of pottery. At the stone circle I started to move around some of the stones and discovered a cavity in which there was a conch shell showing tool marks to make a grip. When gripped accordingly and putting a finger over a strategically placed hole and using the shell as a horn it admitted a beautiful sound.

On the way out from this site I came upon two of the orchards workers and showed them my finds. They wondered if I was interested any some of the things they had found over the years. To end this tale I exchanged two ( 2 ) pairs of used jeans for a beautiful clay head the size of an orange.

kFrancisco de Cabral

 

[PeterInBrat]

The island's had some 500 years of influx from Africa and Europe. I expect the Taino line was much higher up to the 17th century, though disease and persecution in the Columbus era certainly had its toll. The figure that I see tossed around is about 90% of indigenous ppl in the Americas were wiped out by the Europeans' arrival within the first 100 years, mostly by disease. Native genetics make up a higher percentage in countries like Guatemala in part because fewer Europeans had reason to settle there before the banana, coffee and rubber industries came along.

On the other side of the island, I've heard that many Haitians have less European blood than what is typically found in the source countries from the Bight of Benin.

 

[xstew]

The island's had some 500 years of influx from Africa and Europe. I expect the Taino line was much higher up to the 17th century, though disease and persecution in the Columbus era certainly had its toll. The figure that I see tossed around is about 90% of indigenous ppl in the Americas were wiped out by the Europeans' arrival within the first 100 years, mostly by disease. Native genetics make up a higher percentage in countries like Guatemala in part because fewer Europeans had reason to settle there before the banana, coffee and rubber industries came along.

On the other side of the island, I've heard that many Haitians have less European blood than what is typically found in the source countries from the Bight of Benin.

The Spanish brought no women with them. So what does a Horney bullfighter do with indian women . They created new lines.

 

[Chellow]

would be interesting to see the Cibao results of DNA testing.

 

[ramesses]

I wonder what happen to the people in this thread....where did they go? Hillbilly is there and I saw Dawnwil a few months back.

 

[Virgo]

In case anyone stumbles upon this old thread, now in 2015 various DNA based studies have been done on Dominican and other Latin American populations. In the Polls Forum of DR1 there is a thread about Dominican history, in the more recent pages a couple or so of these studies are cited there. Anyone interested should take a peek.

In the mean time, these are typical Dominican genetic results.

Is there a report in English or Spanish about this work available for download? If yes, where?

 

[xstew]

No one seems to take into account that spain was mostly North african untill Isabel La catolica came along. that lasted 900 years i would say the Spanish are not so spanish as it Seems. Also it is clamed that their were 5-6 million tiano indians. The conquistidors had a fue years with only Tiano indians for wives befor they started bringing African Slaves. I think if someone did a numbers .Verses population count [If that would be possible eaven as an estimate] The Spanish Tiano mixture would have been very High. Also the Spanish side of the island did not have the riches that the French side had . Just an idea to think about!

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Moors conquered most of the Iberian peninsula and hung around in at least part of Spain until 1492. But of course, many of the Romans and Visigoths the Moors conquered converted to Islam. When Christians reconquered an area, the descendants reconverted, and so on. So it is incorrect to assume that all of Spain was populated by Arabs, Berbers and other Maghrebis.
The population simply became more and more mixed. This happened all around the Mediterranean and along all the trade routes.
Moorish Christians were called Mozarabes. Spanish Muslims were called Moriscos. Ethnicity was largely unimportant, religion was the main issue.

African slaves escaped and formed settlements with the Indians, often called quilombos, in Hispaniola as well as in other places.
So the population simply became mixed. I imagine that a DNA test would reveal the percentage of African, European and Taino/ Caribe genes in any given individual, and the mix would vary as it obviously does in the RD, frim one area to another.
Someday, someone will probably come up with a cheap and easy test and many someone elses will do a multitude of dissertations on it.

 

[Criss Colon]

Glad to see your "GOOGLE" is still working for you!!!

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[Xavier_Onassis]

I did not have to Google any of this, other than to check some spelling.
I like to learn stuff. I see nothing wrong with googling. I can't imagine why it would upset anyone.

 

[xstew]

Criss does not Google he already knows everything. Just ask him !