"The Da Vinci Code" movie in the DR

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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Macocael- your assertion that "religion" is a touchy subject is all too true. To many here, and elsewhere, "religion" is of times equated with "faith". Would that the two could be seperat4d and discussed freely, but one's emotions are oftimes too involved.
Indeed, "faith" is where many individuals live and to question that element of their lives is to raise a "red flag".
I have always strived to avoid a discussion involving "faith" for that very reason, preferring instead to pursue such discussions from a purely historical standpoint. By NOT using the "Bible" as an irrefutable "source", one can learn much about early mid-eastern societies and political structures and conflicts.
Written history is also not entirely correct. For that reason one must always cross-reference ones sources with opposing sources and more or less leave it up to the reader to decide which is correct.
Again, recent discoveries of texts which evidently (by carbon dating) were written during early times have shed a great deal of information which is being considered by scholars in the light of their revelations and conflicting information.
This IS getting off subject to the OP so I'll shut up.

Texas Bill
 

bobandjudy

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Jan 20, 2006
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Hi everyone, thanks to dr1.com for this good thread. My wife and I live in Santiago. We both graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas, TX.

Macocael, thank you for your thoughtful post. You stated, “Ever wonder why there are two creation stories?” I just completed reading through the Pentateuch. I noted that in a number of cases Moses (the author) repeated or reviewed information, in some cases adding detail the second time around. For example, Exodus 35-40 (Israel building the tabernacle) basically repeats Exodus 25-31 (God’s instructions for building the tabernacle). Deuteronomy is Moses’ repetition of the Mosaic Law for the new generation going into Canaan. In fact, Deuteronomy means “second law.” Other specific verses, statements, laws, and events are repeated and/or reviewed.

A poster read a book proposing the gospels written 400 years after Christ lived. It’s true that myths could develop if several generations passed between His life and the Gospels. Christ died and was resurrected cerca 30 AD. The apostle Matthew wrote his gospel in the mid to late 60’s. Mark wrote his about the same time. He received much of his information from the Apostle Peter. Luke wrote his gospel in the early 60’s. Sir William Ramsey, author of St Paul the Traveler stated that Luke was “an historian of the first rank” as Luke was meticulous in his research. And the Apostle John wrote his in the early 90’s.

Since all the Gospel authors were eyewitnesses and/or interviewed them, and wrote straightforward accounts, I feel this argues against them being mythical. Also, their enemies (the Pharisees and Sanhedrin) would have easily discredited them if they had been embellishing.

There are about 5000 Greek New Testament manuscripts in existence today. These are dated between 150 and 400 AD. The earliest of these, a copy of the Gospel of John has been dated about 150. That’s only a 60-year gap between the original and the oldest surviving manuscript. In other words, the short time periods between the originals (none which exist today) and the copies argue additions, forgeries, etc, which would have discredited them. In contrast, Homer’s Iliad’s oldest existing manuscript is dated about 900 AD (that’s an 1800 year gap?)

Ok, enuf said, if you’ve read this far, I thank you! Have a great day! Sincerely, Bob
 

macocael

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Aug 3, 2004
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Texas Bill, some day if we ever meet in the flesh, si Dios quiere (!), we can share a few beers and talk about the bible from a Historical perspective. I am one hundred percent in agreement with you. I do think, however, that it is possible to have faith and separate that from a scholarly discussion of these matters, but it probably depends on your mindset.

Bob, your correction vis a vis the dates of writing of the gospels is on target. Actually I think the poster just confuses the original writing with the subsequent editing on behalf of the Church. That too, however, is an important part of the overall creation of these texts. Well, we could obviously discuss these matters endlessly. I find them fascinating and this book has always been one of my favorites -- thematically, esthetically, linguistically, theologically, etc etc it just continues to provoke interest.

Btw, for those who are interested the issue of repetition and the role it plays in the narrative, you must read Robert Alter's The Art of Biblical Narrative. A fine book.

To veer back to topic: I am looking forward to seeingthis movie.
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
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macocael said:
Texas Bill, some day if we ever meet in the flesh, si Dios quiere (!), we can share a few beers and talk ....


Macocael, count me in, I'll pay for the beers...dying to hear you on merging scholarship with faith, ...I'm ready to buy anything short of emulsifying both concepts first... ;-)
 

something_of_the_night

Has left the building...
Feb 7, 2006
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...and kudos to the moderator for allowing this discussion to continue despite his warnings. It proves that threads can go any which way if emotions are kept in check. The terribly misinformed Kid started it with the intention to provoke talk centered around Cardinal L. R., who, it seems, does not shy away from controversial subjects.

My take is that he will sound off against it, thus creating more interest in the film by would-be moviegoers.

-The Kid
Something wicked this way comes...
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
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Looks like Jesus, acts like Judas, throws like Mary...

That would be Johny Damon, but nevermind.
bobandjudy said:
Hi everyone, thanks to dr1.com for this good thread.

There are about 5000 Greek New Testament manuscripts in existence today. These are dated between 150 and 400 AD. The earliest of these, a copy of the Gospel of John has been dated about 150. That?s only a 60-year gap between the original and the oldest surviving manuscript. In other words, the short time periods between the originals (none which exist today) and the copies argue additions, forgeries, etc, which would have discredited them. In contrast, Homer?s Iliad?s oldest existing manuscript is dated about 900 AD (that?s an 1800 year gap?)
I really enjoyed the Dan Brown book (but won't dare waste the time and $ on the movie) and find the whole theological debate interesting.

Bob, I was wondering if you had come across this month's National Geographic and the discovery of the Gospel of Judas (found in NY), and how that seems to have some theologians with their undies in a bunch.
 

bobandjudy

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Jan 20, 2006
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Cleef, two out of three isn't bad (is the grammar right here?)

Hi y’all, thanks for your good responses to my post yesterday.

Macocael, thanks for recommending Alter. I have How To Read the Bible As Literature by Leland Ryken. He quotes Alter several times, the quotes being very helpful for his book. I read Alter briefly on amazon.com although I didn’t come across his creation discussion.

Concerning the Gospel of Judas, www.probe.org has a informative discussion of the book. Scholars believe that it was one of a number of books written by Gnostics sometime in the second century AD (Geisler and Nix, General Introduction To The Bible, Moody Press). Marcion, who some feel influenced this group (earlychristianwritings.com webpage) was well known in his day as a heretic. Gnostics promoted superior knowledge and did not accept the fact that Jesus Christ was God and man; they felt that matter was evil. I read National Geographic’s translation on earlychristianwritings.com, and yes, it reeks of gnosticism, contradicting the Gospel accounts in a number of places.

In 180 AD, respected church father Irenaeus called it fictitious. The parchment examined today is dated between 300 and 400 AD (earlychristianwritings.com webpage).

So Cleef, I agree with Irenaeus. The Red Sox’s World Series run in ‘04 was more exciting (and inspiring!) than reading Judas--and I still can’t believe after all that Johnny Damon signed with the Yankees and had to shave! He doesn’t look like Jesus anymore! Oh well, two out of three isn’t bad (unless you're a Yankee fan!)

Y’all have a great weekend, sincerely, Bob
 

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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I don't condone this sort of thing, but for those who have to resort to illegal copies of copywritten material because they are obligated due among other things, economic reasons, health conditions (agoraphobia or similar ailments diagnosed by a registered medical practitioner, which empedes him/her from attending a public theater/cinema, attn. Mr Scandall), I feel compelled to inform them that the genuine pirated versions of The Da Vinci Code will be available starting next Sunday morning at the flee market (Ave. Luperon with Melecon), according to my Haitian sources (calieses)....

-
 

something_of_the_night

Has left the building...
Feb 7, 2006
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Holly Technicolor Dreamcoat!!!!!!

The protests are gaining strengths; from Greece to India to S. Korea, Christians are protesting next week's release of DVC. Meanwhile, cardinal L?pez R. is silent.

It is just a matter of days before the feces strike the propeller.

-The Kid
H?roe del oeste
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
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something_of_the_night said:
The protests are gaining strengths; from Greece to India to S. Korea, Christians are protesting next week's release of DVC. Meanwhile, cardinal L?pez R. is silent.

It is just a matter of days before the feces strike the propeller.

-The Kid
H?roe del oeste

Knowing the myriad forms that human folly can take, I would doubt that the studio, producers, and distributors of this film are promoting and financing the protests....


...
 

Music

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Apr 19, 2002
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The reviews haven't been good so far but I will still see it for myself. Movies are never like the books anyhow lol I also find when people make a big deal about a movie you get disappointed because you expect so much from it. I"m going this Sat to see it and then I'll have my own thoughts about the movie!
I did enjoy the book very much!! :)
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
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Music said:
The reviews haven't been good so far but I will still see it for myself. Movies are never like the books anyhow lol I also find when people make a big deal about a movie you get disappointed because you expect so much from it. I"m going this Sat to see it and then I'll have my own thoughts about the movie!
I did enjoy the book very much!! :)


Did you know that our own DR is tied into the Holy Grail saga (of Da Vinci Code fame).. Well, it so happens that our capital city is named after Santo Domingo de Guzman, the same guy who commanded the Pope's (the not so Innocent III) armies in the XIII Century, and completely, genocidally exterminated the Cathars (the Albigensians), and who's famous battle cry was "Kill them all. Let God sort them out"

...

Here's good reading...

From Those Wonderful Folks Who Brought You The Inquisition

...
 

drtampa

Bronze
Oct 1, 2004
1,087
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Clergy Take on Movie

Now before I get bashed for this now being DR related, it is. The Jesuit priest is one who is affiliated with ILAC.

TAMPA - The secret society of Opus Dei takes a beating, Roman Catholic Church hierarchy is accused of a 2,000-year coverup, and Jesus' divinity is challenged.

That aside, after watching a screening for movie critics at WestShore Plaza, the Rev. Michael Cooper and Sister Caroline Cerveny both give director Ron Howard's "The Da Vinci Code" an enthusiastic thumbs up.

"It was a lot of fun," said Cerveny, a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph. "Especially if you like a good thriller and a good mystery."

"I plan to see it two or three more times," said Cooper, a Jesuit priest. "There are a lot of different levels to this film that get you thinking."

Howard can only hope ticket-buyers share that enthusiasm. The priest and nun gave a kinder review than some critics:

?"Snoozy" and "deadly dull," said Knight Ridder's Steven Rea.

?"Cursory and rushed," panned The Associated Press' Christy Lemire.

?Tribune critic Bob Ross gave it a ho-hum C-plus.

An Opportunity To Teach
How other Catholics feel won't be determined until the film version of author Dan Brown's bestseller opens nationwide Friday. But Cooper and Cerveny, both of St. Leo University in Saint Leo, said it's no time to get defensive.

"We should use this as a teachable moment, to understand what our history and teachings are all about," said Cooper, a professor of pastoral studies and senior religious adviser at the Center for Catholic and Jewish Studies. "Go with a friend, with a neighbor, and when the movie is over, get the conversation and dialogue going."

The theologian, who plans to include the book as part of his Catholic Traditions course at St. Leo's next fall, admitted it and the movie have some "pretty far-fetched ideas."

"Such as Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married. Humanly, you could not keep this a secret. Who can keep any secret for a few hours, let alone 2,000 years?"

His one concern: Some people will accept some of the plotlines as gospel. A movie such as this might be their only source of information about Catholicism and Christianity, he said.

To counter some of those points, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops set up a Web site, jesusdecoded.com, to address questions.

An Opening For Women
"The Da Vinci Code" is built around a series of riddles that the protagonists must solve as they flee for their lives from France to England.

Cerveny, associate director of university ministry, thinks she spotted a symbolic message when an older, subservient nun is killed and the independent heroine learns of her link to Christ.

"I think he [author Dan Brown] was trying to show that the church has another role for women," she said. "And he was trying to do it in a way to get women thinking."

That's the goal of hercode .org, an interactive Web site just launched by a group of female faith leaders. The organizers are using the book and movie to begin a national dialogue on the role of women in today's organized religions and how they can claim more equal standing in their houses of worship.

"I'll be disappointed if all the attention surrounding this movie just descends into an attack against the Catholic church," said participant Emma Jordan-Simpson, associate pastor at Concord Baptist Church in New York City. "The entire Christian church can benefit from a healthy discussion about the role of women in the life of faith."

Opus Dei Defended
One group that may not welcome the attention is Opus Dei, an influential Catholic institution steeped in tradition, secrecy and demanding spiritual practices.

The group is depicted in a most unflattering way in "The Da Vinci Code" - from diabolical leaders with misguided power and wealth to a self-flagellating albino monk on a murderous mission.

"They really come across in a poor light," Cerveny said, "which I think is very unfortunate because this group has a lot to offer the church."

A representative from Opus Dei will join a Methodist minister and Catholic priest on a "Da Vinci Code" program at 8 a.m. Monday on the Gus Lloyd Morning Show on WBVM, 90.5 FM.

Lloyd said they will be discussing the movie and how Christians can defend their faith against the "untruths" in the book and film.

Listeners are encouraged to call in, he said.




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Music

Bronze
Apr 19, 2002
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Very interesting, I shall send this website link to my fiance we have many discussions on this topic and I think he will find it intersting.
thanks!

Mirador said:
Did you know that our own DR is tied into the Holy Grail saga (of Da Vinci Code fame).. Well, it so happens that our capital city is named after Santo Domingo de Guzman, the same guy who commanded the Pope's (the not so Innocent III) armies in the XIII Century, and completely, genocidally exterminated the Cathars (the Albigensians), and who's famous battle cry was "Kill them all. Let God sort them out"

...

Here's good reading...

From Those Wonderful Folks Who Brought You The Inquisition

...
 
May 31, 2005
1,489
21
0
I love the Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown. I read it for the first time a little over a year ago and loved it. Each chapter ends in such a way that you have to keep reading because you just need to know what will happen next. I started reading the book a second time before watching the movie. I am almost finished. I know that I will probably be disappointed with the movie just like it happened with Memoirs of a Geisha. The book is so full of details that you can never expect a movie to have. I am still watching the movie though. :)
 

El Tigre

El Tigre de DR1 - Moderator
Jan 23, 2003
2,306
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Oh My God This Movie Stinks!!!

Saw It Yesterday Ohh Lord Have Mercy On Who Ever Pays The Money To Go See This!!! Worst Movie In My Book!!!

People Were Yelling Give Me My Money Back And Everything.

Oh Lordddddddddd!!!
 

Mirador

On Permanent Vacation!
Apr 15, 2004
3,563
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El Tigre said:
Oh My God This Movie Stinks!!!

Saw It Yesterday Ohh Lord Have Mercy On Who Ever Pays The Money To Go See This!!! Worst Movie In My Book!!!

People Were Yelling Give Me My Money Back And Everything.

Oh Lordddddddddd!!!


So what if you're the first kid on the block to watch it... Grossing over $30 million on it's first day of showing, It's definitely a blockbuster...


...
 

El Tigre

El Tigre de DR1 - Moderator
Jan 23, 2003
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Mirador,

No estoy diciendo que no valla a ser un blockbuster. Man the theater was packed!!! But I was there. Most people booed at the end. The 5 people I went with didn't like it at all either.

I'm a big Tom Hanks fan. But I didn't like him for this role. I would have preferred someone else.

Get out and see it sometime. Me gustaria saber tu opinion mi pana.