US training of Haitian Rebels in Dominican Republic

[Tony C]

Lee,
You have not disputed that the US funded the Haitian opposition. It really isn't disputable. The TOPIC WAS whether there was American-led/funded training in the Dominican Republic..

That is the Topic and I have addressed it. There is no proof that the US funded or trained any of the Haitian Rebels in the Dominican Republic.

I don't care to defend Aristide's record - I'm highly disappointed by it..

Disappointed? Thats like saying i was Disappointed by Stalin or Hitler or Castro. Aren't you Liberal types suppose to be "Outraged"?

Do you care to defend the US funding of one political group in Latin America over another when there is no real distinction between them in regard to committment to democracy? .

That is easy. If there is no distinction then the US should support the group that best serves US interests. How simple is that?

And, again, how do you think that policy might play out if the President "I've-Got-Troops-In-Iraq but otherwise lead a group of incompetent thieves" Mejia vs. Leonel "wasn't he a friend of the adulterer" Fernandez show gets out of hand?.

Again that is easy. The DR is a function Democracy(Barely) The fact that the Mejia Goverement is a bunch of theives is no surprise. The Dominican people voted for them. Anybody who Voted for him knew that the PRD are thieves or were just plain stupid. The Dominican people Got what they deserved.
If the Mejia people try to steal the election I fully expect the US Goverment to apply diplomatic pressure. Of course I expect the US goverment to act in the Best interests of the US first.
BTW I could have cared less where Clinton stuck his cigar. I did care that he committed PERJURY!!

Your unwillingness to address the latter spells volumes about both your Miami-Cuban Reaganite reactionary bias (i.e. plural democracy is not a goal, its' just a cover story; it's really all about "us" versus "them") and your never ending effort to divert this thread to a non-DR-related topic.

Unwillingness? Thats all i have been doing. Jeez you guys are great at skirting the fact that time and again I have proved you wrong.
I am Proud of my Cuban Heritage. I am proud of the fact I am from Miami(Paradise) and I Hold President Reagan in the Highest Regard. Reagan was the US's greatest President since Rooseveldt.(Teddy not that jerk FDR)
I want you to to campare the US to the other great super powers of the last 500 years and tell me where the US ranks in being benevolent and imperialistic.
Spain, England, Germany, USSR all were many times less forgiving to the people under their unbrella and many times more Imperialistic. Do you know how many millions of people on this planet just dream about having the US invade thier country just so their lot can improve? I don't see people lining up around the block of the Iranian Embassy looking for VISAs.
Where do you think the DR would be if it wasn't for the US? I'll tell you. A lot worse off.

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

That is the Topic and I have addressed it. There is no proof that the US funded or trained any of the Haitian Rebels in the Dominican Republic..[but, he adds]... the US should support the group that best serves US interests.

I can't help but notice how you deny in one breath and justify in the next. ("Your honor, my client did not rob the bank, and if he did it was only because he was insane at the time.")

Conyo, you really ARE a Reaganite. I thought I was just throwing back the type of cheap label at you that you use on me. Even Condaleeza Rice and George Bush have said that they will not blindly support morally decrepit regimes with a blind eye to democracy just because it "best serves the US interests". Hombre, you're living with old Ollie North and Elliot Abrams in the 1980s (and even Abrams has apologized and reformed). How many people still think that long-term objectives are met by propping up thieves, tyrrants and other morally bankrupt types (well, apparently at least one person still does).

And, of course, you have now confirmed that you will celebrate when the Bushies stand by while their boy Hippo steals the election because having our troops in Iraq "best serves US interests" (Lord knows it doesn't serve ours).

Aren't you Liberal types suppose to be "Outraged"?

Is there a sale on cheap labels at the cheap label store this week?

I want you to to campare the US to the other great super powers of the last 500 years and tell me where the US ranks in being benevolent and imperialistic ... Germany, USSR all were many times less forgiving to the people under their unbrella and many times more Imperialistic.

Glad to see you're holding the US up to such high standards. When Hippo steals the next election, I'll be sure to remind myself how much better he is than Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin.

Do you know how many millions of people on this planet just dream about having the US invade thier country

Doesn't that just about say everything about your mindset. That line is suitable for framing.

 

[ltsnyder]

Porfio_Rubirosa , take it easy on Tony . . .

He is more transparent than you think, don't let him get you in a fluster.
His colors show loud and clear to all that read this thread.

-Lee

 

[Tony C]

He is more transparent than you think, don't let him get you in a fluster.
His colors show loud and clear to all that read this thread.

-Lee

And Damn proud of it
At least I don't cloak myself is selfrighteousness, False sentimentality and the belief that the world is a nice place.
Now go enjoy your group hug, send your check to the U.N., Tell me how European culture(Whatever that is) and burn your flag. Me I will keep on Kicking *** and take names.

Oh and by the way.....
About U.S. and Dominican involvement in the Haitian rebellion....

SHOW ME PROOF!!!![/​

B]​

Oh I forgot...
You can't!

 

[CES]

US is backing the wrong side in Haiti . . .

<font size=4>~ The Star Press ~</font>

Hartford City priest has firsthand knowledge of Haiti
By RIC ROUTLEDGE
ricroutledge@hotmail.com

HARTFORD CITY - The United States is backing the wrong side in Haiti, according to a local Catholic priest who for years has known the Caribbean country's recently deposed president.

_ - snip - _

Hosey said he did not believe that America had anything to do with the first time Aristide was ousted, "but no one doubts that the CIA helped the coup that got him out the second time."

And why would America do that?

"I don't know," Hosey said, "but Jesse Helms [Senator from North Carolina] has always been against Aristide. America even blocked a much needed grant Haiti got from the World Bank."

Why?"

"Ask the CIA," Hosey said. . .

_ - snip - _

http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/8/017610-6858-004.html

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . CES

 

[jsizemore]

No Doubts

The priest in question said he had no doubts. He did not say he had any evidence or any specific information. Information such as who was involved, what they did, when they did it , where they did it or how they did it. So that article is just another conspiricy theory gone wild. Another words it don't pass the sniff test.
John

 

[Texas Bill]

yes but Bill the Wehrmarcht collapsed years ago, and besides, if it's your country right or wrong, you should step out of the argument seeing you don't care what the truth is.

-Lee

Lee, I heartily resent your inference that I don't care what the truth is!!!

Quite the contrary, to me the truth IS and nothing anyone can say will change that!

My reference to "My Country,etc." involves a basic loyalty to my heritage and to the principles that I live by. There have been many times that I have been at odds with one of the "Administrations" as to their conduct of foreign policy, but that doesn't detract from my "Duty, Honor, Country" stance in everyday life. I cannot and will not arbitrarily abrogate my basic responsibilities as a citizen and as an ex-soldier. And I will never stand aside to the vitroilic remarks directed toward myself nor my country. To do so would be dishonorable and I could not live with myself under those circumstances.

If you cannot respect that, then we have nothing else to discuss. If you can, then let us continue the debate without underlying insults.

Texas Bill

 

[Tony C]

We all want the Truth. That is why I ask for proof.

CES posted nothing of any significance. There will always be types who will blame the CIA for everything.

The problem is that some people only want the truth that agrees with them.
Personally If I was shown proof that the US assisted the Haitian rebels in the DR who then removed a murderous Dictator then I will be the first to accept it. I will accept it with pride because it will just be another of President Bush's foreign policy Triumphs.
As of now I am satisfied with the knowledge that the US is setting up a true democracy in Haiti!

 

[jsizemore]

my humble opinion

I honestly feel that the Haiti deal was not CIA sponsored. I feel this because it went off to well. I do believe that late in the Game the US seen an opportunity to jump in and take a little control of the situation and did so with out hesitating. End result Haiti has a chance and the rebels are not in total power and are talking true democracy.
Remember in the Southern States of the US democracy was held up as a reality. But in fact is was the same type used being Aristede. "Can we say Jim Crow Laws and gun control and KKK"?
John

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Personally If I was shown proof that the US assisted the Haitian rebels in the DR who then removed [the elected President of Haiti] then I will be the first to accept it. I will accept it with pride because it will just be another of President Bush's foreign policy Triumphs.

Come on, Tony. It's not like the Iran/Contra types publish their activities in the Pentagon budget or go on CNN to tout their activities. And it's not like they don't intentionally hide what they do in Latin America. Were this not the case, then everything would always be perfectly clear and we wouldn't be having this discussion. That they do means that, usually, there will always be something less than a smoking gun for us to go on.

The credibility of people like you - the same as the people involved - is that your ends (regardless of whether its the ends desired by the American people or Congress were they made aware and regardless of whether the ends are actualy good for America) are always justified by the means, and the means includes cover-up and denial.

Proof: Well, both sides of the engagement say so: Aristide and Philippe. Not a bad amount of proof under the circumstances.

That you now say you are not interested in the proof (that you would agree with arming Haitian thugs if it were true) means that we can skip to the next level. Will this be good policy if applied to supporting Bush friend Hippo in the next election (of course, Hippo is already being supported with US supported finanical incentives that he uses in illicit campaign activities)?

Texas,

I'm afraid I have to throw it back at you, then. If you are not willing to discuss openly and freely anything that might expose a misguided (or worse) US policy in Latin America, Haiti and the Dominican Republic because you will take it personally as a ex-soldier, then I must quetion whether you belong debating here. When I read your posts, I repeatedly see an open mind that later closes when the implications are digested.

 

[Tony C]

Proof: Well, both sides of the engagement say so: Aristide and Philippe. Not a bad amount of proof under the circumstances..

Nope! The word of a murderer like Aristide is not proof. That scum will say anything. Ditto Philipppe. He is just saying that the U.S. Supported him to try to gain some credibility. Both are just spouting off because neither of them will have much to say in a future Haiti.
You say that concrete proof will be impossible to obtain. Funny That Iran-Contra scandal you mention so often yielded reams of paper eveidence and credible testimonials. You would think there would be some invoices and canceled checks somewhere. I wonder why Philippe hasn't been able to produce any?

That you now say you are not interested in the proof (that you would agree with arming Haitian thugs if it were true) means that we can skip to the next level. Will this be good policy if applied to supporting Bush friend Hippo in the next election (of course, Hippo is already being supported with US supported finanical incentives that he uses in illicit campaign activities)?.

What you call support for Hippo by the Bush Administration is just a continuation of a policy of support for Democratic institutions in the D.R. This Policy was implimented during the Clinton Administration.
I believe the U.S. will just step back and see what happens in the D.R. Unless there is massive obvious voter fraud don't expect the Bush Administration to step in. The Situation in Haiti was a good deal worse then what is happening in the D.R. and was deteriorating quickly.
I still perdict that Hippo will be re-elected(I have posted my reasons for this belief many times in other threads). Even if he doesn't(And I hope he doesn't) expect a continuation of the same policy and assistance to the D.R. under the Fernandez Goverment.
We all know that Hippo and his lot are crooks but face facts. He was elected by the people of the Dominican Republic. There are no Roving gangs of Hippo Supporters Murdering the opposition. There are incidents but in the world we live in the Human Rights abuses committed by the PRD don't even rank in the top 50% on the repression scale.

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Aristide ... Philipppe ... oth are just spouting off because neither of them will have much to say in a future Haiti.

Nice try, Tony. But, deep down, you know better. Philippe and the other US backed thugs are being instructed to lay low in exchange for promises about jobs and contracts for them or their possies in the soon to be reimplemented army and police. The US won't stay very long in Haiti (it never does), and the thugs know it. The incredibly selfish Haitian elites that the US is now propping up (really piggish people if you know them) will be replaced by the even worse thugs as soon as the troops leave. Whichever thug is most murderous will win. The smart ones like Philippe are taking what they get for now.

You say that concrete proof will be impossible to obtain. Funny That Iran-Contra scandal you mention so often yielded reams of paper eveidence and credible testimonials. You would think there would be some invoices and canceled checks somewhere. I wonder why Philippe hasn't been able to produce any?

Why would Philippe want to produce any? If he does, the gravy train stops. And, yes, Iran-Contra did produce reams of evidence. But only months after the fact and only after months of congressional subpoenas and hearings that followed a concerted and coordinated cover up. And that was then, this is now. Your people are in control of both branches - so there are no checks.

You know, it is more than a little cynical to support cover-ups as a matter of policy in one breath, and then decry that there is no "smoking gun" evidence in another breath.

What you call support for Hippo by the Bush Administration is just a continuation of a policy of support for Democratic institutions in the D.R. This Policy was implimented during the Clinton Administration.

Actually, it was started by the Carter administration and then continued by the Clinton administration after a hiatus during the Reagan and GHW Bush years.

Now, oddly, in your previous posts you essentially said "democracy, schemocracy" - that whatever served your view of US strategic interests is all that matters. If Hippo serves US interests as interpreted by Bush (and he does), then democracy be damned.

Did Condaleeeeeeeeeeeezza's testimony change your mind? I don't think so. In fact, I think this debate is total mierda. You have said that you don't care whether there is proof or not, whether the thugs rule or not, and whether Hippo steals the election with US money and support or not. You have said that the only thing that matters is a morally blind chess game-like policy of short-sighted self interest - one that concludes that morality in foreign policy is a liability and that US interests are best served by perpetuating thugs and crooks as long as they are "our" thugs and crooks.

Admit it! Your view on Latin American policy, apparently (from evidence in Haiti, Ecuador and Venezuela) shared by the Bush administration and the Jesse Helms protege Roger Noriega that it has put in charge of Latin America, places democracy at risk in the Dominican Republic.

 

[ltsnyder]

Texas Bill, you need to step out of your environment.

Lee, I heartily resent your inference that I don't care what the truth is!!!

Quite the contrary, to me the truth IS and nothing anyone can say will change that!

My reference to "My Country,etc." involves a basic loyalty to my heritage and to the principles that I live by. There have been many times that I have been at odds with one of the "Administrations" as to their conduct of foreign policy, but that doesn't detract from my "Duty, Honor, Country" stance in everyday life. I cannot and will not arbitrarily abrogate my basic responsibilities as a citizen and as an ex-soldier. And I will never stand aside to the vitroilic remarks directed toward myself nor my country. To do so would be dishonorable and I could not live with myself under those circumstances.

If you cannot respect that, then we have nothing else to discuss. If you can, then let us continue the debate without underlying insults.

Texas Bill

Texas re-read what you say until the ephiphany happens. I'll give you a hint, there is no way to dovetail the two beleifs:

1)

I still have to say "My country, Right or wrong, My country!" It's a mindset I grew up with and I'm to old to change it. -TBill

2)

Quite the contrary, to me the truth IS and nothing anyone can say will change that! -TBill

The only conclusion I can make is of a human being that is obseance in nature. A person so (I can't even say it) . . . . that does not care what his county has done, in fact he knows what his county has done was wrong, but he still stands by it. None of my comments were far off the mark. But don't trust me, show these or your comments to some one with an alternate view point, talk to a stranger off the street about your "my Country right or wrong" beleif, and then don't forget to mention your beleif that the trruth just "is" (which a logicly translates into a "Null" statement).

Your soul will be in eternal turmoil as long as you try to mix and merge those two beleif sets.

======================================================


Back on topic:


Let's examine parallels:
Note how the Coup attempt in Venezaula has the blue print of a US sponsered overthrow attempt. When you watch these, note the parallels, they are unmistakeable. This is also very good information for anyone in the DOminican Republic, because it is importante to realize the power of the media, and while not a direct corrolation , it shows why Hippolito and others battle over the content of the media more than making things better on the ground. The airwaves rule . . . to put it mildly. As for how this relates to Haiti, well can any one tell me what that media did at the time of the revolution in Haiti. As for Tony C, obviously there is nothing to discuss with him, since he does not care what the outcome is, he's choosen a side, and as he clearly states, he does not care what his side represents because he's choosen a side .

Tony C, Texas Bill, I know you will dismiss this as propaganda, that is a givin, but let's play pretend, if what is reported here is the truth, would you change? Both of you have clearly stated that you support the US actions blindly, so for others it is important to remember this is the kind of thing Tony and Texas would turn a blind eye to (unless my understanding is clarrified/corrected by them).

[ if you don't have time, I recommend you watch 5 minutes into the Part2 clip for 3 minutes]

Part 1 ( about 30 minutes)

DN "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" Part1 (Listen Real Player)

DN "The Revolution WIll Not Be Televised" Part 1 (Watch 128k real player)

Part 2 (about 8 minutes [ if you don't have time, I recommend you watch 5 minutes into the clip for 3 minutes] it will give you the gist of what happened)

Part2 (Watch Broadband)

Part 2 (watch 128k)

Part 2 (Listen RealPlayer)


or see the film your self :

"The Revolution Will Not be Televised"



I had to laugh when I read this thread, shows people true colors (Tony that is, XR was mearly being observant).

US Troops in DR . . . .

Update: Now listen about what is now being reported about in Haiti Now (10 minutes):
Hundreds of Corpses Fill Haiti Morgues

DN Haiti Today (Listen)

Watch 128k

Watch 256k


-Lee

 

[CES]

- Anatomy of a ragtag rebellion -

<font size=3>~ St. Petersburg Times ~</font>

According to rebel plotters and their allies, a group with little backing toppled Haiti's government and forced a Washington policy shift.

By DAVID ADAMS, Times Latin America Correspondent
Published April 12, 2004

MIAMI - When exiled Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide was forced from power in late February by an armed rebellion, his departure was met with mixed emotions.

While some celebrated the end of a corrupt and lawless regime, others cried foul, claiming he had been illegally ousted in a U.S.-assisted coup.

A month after Aristide's whirlwind exit, questions still linger about Aristide's ouster. Was there U.S. complicity in his removal? And who was behind the seemingly all-powerful rebel army?

In recent days, the answers to those questions have become clearer. And the truth that is emerging contains some surprises.

More Keystone Kops than White House-orchestrated covert operations, the events of February were a largely home-grown affair, according to interviews with some of the rebel plotters and their allies, who included the septuagenarian representative of a Ponte Vedra Beach electrical company, and a 36-year-old Republican lawyer from Winter Park.

Far from being a well-equipped army with sophisticated lines of communication and logistics, like the U.S.-backed Nicaraguan Contras of the 1980s, the Haitian rebels were a ragtag bunch of former soldiers and opportunists who begged and borrowed to raise the money for their guns. . .


_- snip -_

<font size=3>- read more here -</font>

_- snip -_

As the rebels advanced, and one town after another fell under their control, Long was getting excited calls from Philippe and the rebel leaders. When was Washington going to listen to them, they asked?

"They wanted to get a message to the U.S. that they were not bad people," Long said.

Long sent a couple of letters to Chris Barton, an official at the National Security Council. In the letter sent Feb. 27, two days before Aristide's departure, Long urged the Bush administration to "allow the Haitians to rid themselves of Aristide," and not "to automatically categorize the rebels as thugs, criminals and drug dealers."

It was at that moment that the Bush administration, following the lead of France, decided it was time to ditch Aristide. His armed gangs, known as the chimeres, were loose on the streets of Port-au-Prince creating havoc.

The rebels had won. On Feb. 29, Aristide fled. The next day the rebels marched into the capital. Long got a phone call from the rebels as they reached the presidential palace. "Where are the Americans?" they wanted to know. "Tell them we're here."

Suddenly, the Bush administration began taking Long's calls.

- David Adams may be contacted at dadams@sptimes.com

? Copyright 2002-2004 St. Petersburg Times

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I found it on the web so it must be true. . .


. . . CES

 

[BeachBoys]

And Jesse Helms is where?

<font size=4>~ The Star Press ~</font>

Hartford City priest has firsthand knowledge of Haiti
By RIC ROUTLEDGE
ricroutledge@hotmail.com

HARTFORD CITY - The United States is backing the wrong side in Haiti, according to a local Catholic priest who for years has known the Caribbean country's recently deposed president.

_ - snip - _

Hosey said he did not believe that America had anything to do with the first time Aristide was ousted, "but no one doubts that the CIA helped the coup that got him out the second time."

And why would America do that?

"I don't know," Hosey said, "but Jesse Helms [Senator from North Carolina] has always been against Aristide. America even blocked a much needed grant Haiti got from the World Bank."

Jesse Helms is no longer serving in the US Senate.
Could this be a stab at the Congressional Black Caucus?
They have been in Aristide's pocket?
I doubt that the Clambake was accompanied by the Elvis Presley
soundtrack of the same name.

Hmmmmm,

BB

 

[CES]

Well said Porfio . . .

Nice try, Tony. But, deep down, you know better. Philippe and the other US backed thugs are being instructed to lay low in exchange for promises about jobs and contracts for them or their possies in the soon to be reimplemented army and police. The US won't stay very long in Haiti (it never does), and the thugs know it. The incredibly selfish Haitian elites that the US is now propping up (really piggish people if you know them) will be replaced by the even worse thugs as soon as the troops leave. Whichever thug is most murderous will win. The smart ones like Philippe are taking what they get for now.

_- snip -_

Admit it! Your view on Latin American policy, apparently (from evidence in Haiti, Ecuador and Venezuela) shared by the Bush administration and the Jesse Helms protege Roger Noriega that it has put in charge of Latin America, places democracy at risk in the Dominican Republic.

When was the last time the US has acted in the best long term interest of our neighbors to the South? IMO if the total asshole Jesse Helms had not chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for so many years Cuba would have been much closer to being rid of Castro by now. . .

. . . CES

 

[CES]

Jesse Helms is no longer serving in the US Senate.
Could this be a stab at theCongressional Black Congress?
They have been in Aristide's pocket?
I doubt that the Clambake was accompanied by the Elvis Presley
soundtrack of the same name.

Hmmmmm,

BB

aaaah BB, do you mean to say the "Congressional Black Caucus"?

And good riddance to the "good ole boy" Jesse. . .

. . . CES

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Interesting stuff, CES and BeachBoys.

From the St. Petersburg Times article:

"They enjoyed the tacit support of the Dominican armed forces. Ever since Aristide had done away with the military in Haiti in 1994, some Dominican generals were worried about their own job security. Without an army next door in Haiti, the traditional enemy of the Dominican Republic, calls were growing in Santo Domingo to slash the size of their own notoriously bloated and corrupt armed forces. The Dominican generals believed that recreating the old military threat next door would boost their relevance."

But the article would have us believe that the Bush administration supported Aristide as the democratically elected president of Haiti until the tide turned in the rebellion - following, the article would have us believe - France's lead. P - leeze! The Bush administration froze international aid from the US and other sources after the botched 2002 congressional elections in Haiti. Bush administration policy was, at the very least, to watch Aristide die on the vine.

I would still really like it for someone in the Bush administration to state a reason for 300 US special forces troops on the DR side of the Haitian border prior to and during the rebellion - if for a good laugh if nothing else. But notice how, in this day and age, the press isn't even calling for it.

I sat next to the father of a Seabee on a flight once. He told me all about the unbudgeted sh*t that his son was doing in Latin America - about the very secretive ways that the US continues to engage militarily in Latin America. And that's not even counting officially and unofficially sanctioned "foundations" and "institutes" that channel money to politicians and military leaders perceived as being "on our side". Mind you, he was in support of the idea. I mentioned Iran-Contra and he responded by saying, "thank goodness nobody cares about that kind of stuff anymore."

As with Hippo, many of these governments and armies are "cleptocracies" (not my word, but I love it). The US just ends up supporting simmering pots that will ultimately boil over - like in Venezuela.

Is the DR another simmering pot? Based on Tony's own rationale (and I think he does more or less accurately speak for Roger Noriega), the US would support Hippo if things get tough in the next election. By "support", I mean, for example, after a well-reported cycle of violence that the Bushees could not ignore, permitting a constitutional change that would have Hippo stay-on as President for two more years, receive immunity (more important than anything!), and call for new elections in 2006 - with the US claiming that it participated in the "maintaining of democracy" in the hemisphere.

 

[Chirimoya]

Maybe the press isn't calling for it because no-one is shedding any tears over Aristide.

The mistake being made by some of you here is to see it in terms of goodies and baddies. Give the new government a chance, by all means, but don't be under any illusions that they will be any different in terms of corruption, human rights and poverty reduction, unless there is a more sustained international commitment this time.

I happen to have spent some time working in Cap Haitien over the last month and the reports you get from ordinary people about the repression by the 'freedom fighters' (as the new PM called them) is no laughing matter. Neither are the reports of kangaroo trials witnessed first-hand by a foreign correspondent I spoke to, or the mystery disappearances and extra-judicial killings (suffocation in cargo container seems to be a popular method) reported by Human Rights Watch last month.

The international troops and the new Haitian police are there, the latter sporting all the latest uniforms and equipment with great pride as they skulk in the lobby of the hotel where I was staying. Neither seem to be doing much to disarm the guys in camouflage gear who are still controlling the port and the surrounding area.

If I get the chance, when I am there next week I'll ask them who trained them and where they got their guns. :devious:

My two gourdes...

Chiri

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Maybe the press isn't calling for it because no-one is shedding any tears over Aristide.

Include me in that. But, Chiri, there is the bigger picture of US policy and how it affects the entire region, including the DR.

Your first hand reports are and will continue to be watched with great interest by me.