What Has Lionel Done thats been good?

RHM

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Sep 23, 2002
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rellosk said:
For those of you that live in the DR, and especially those of you that are citizens, it is more important (and more immediate) to support (and vote for) local PLD candidates.

Having a larger PLD presence in congress should help Leonel achieve his agenda and hopefully get him re-elected.

I agree with the premise that the DR Congress needs more balance. But I'm apprehensive to encourage blind allegiance to any party in any country. Politicians constantly need to be babysat and questioned about their stance on issues. :)

I'd like to see some actual candidate debates during campaigns. No shows like the US "debates" but real debates where candidates can ask each other questions and must defend their positions. Another reason why I love the Brits. Ever watch the Prime Minister when he visits Parliament? It's a slugfest.

Scandall
 

Keith R

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Jan 1, 2002
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DesiArnez6 said:
Just wait till he passes the CAFTA agreement and bankrupts the country from lost tax revenue, following in the same footsteps as Africa taking the wold banks advice, argentina followed the advice of the intl bankers as well and we all remeber the crisi that followed. Why do we need cafta? there is already an agreement that we can export to US without tariffs, this will just allow the us to export to us without tariffs, which is not fair to a third world country to have to compete with American farmers without tariff protection, end rant ;)

PRD Always!
Funny that you bring this up, when it was Hippo himself that sought to join the CAFTA negotiations and the PRD appointees who negotiated most of its provisions. And if it is ratified by the DR, it will be because a PRD-controlled Congress approves it. :tired:
 

MrMike

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I agree wholeheartedly with this

Criss Colon said:
The number one problem in the Dominican Republic!
"Inflation" and "Crime" can both be laid at the "doorstep" of the "Electricity" problem!
Homes and business' (Free Zones are going "belly-Up" for lack of stable electricity!!)fortunate enough to have a "Planta" are more and more dependent upon those "plantas" for their electricity.If a "Colmado" must use it's "planta" to save it's inventory,and sell cervesa,"Bien Fria" the cost of running the "Planta" must be passed on to their customers,hence "Inflation"!
Being in the "Security" service I know that two ways to increase "Crime",is to increase inflation,"Indirect method",and to decrease "illumination","Direct method!A guy who can't buy something he wants because it is out of his reach,may choose to steal it instead."Darkness" is the friend of the thief,and makes him more bold and therefore more active.
I have been visiting the DR for 20 years,and a working resident for 10 years.I said it before,and I surely will say it again,"Without stable affordabe electricity the DR will NEVER pull itself out of the "Third World,or "Developing Nation" Status!!!
The Dominican Government is to blame,as they have made electric cost subsidies for the "POOR" into a "Political Right" that no party has the "Balls" to eliminate!If "Social Security Benefits" is the "Third Rail" of "American Politics, "Electric Energy Subsidies" to the huge number of Dominican "Poor" is the "Third Rail" here!....
"Touch "IT" and you commit political suicide!!!"

I get MY electricity the "Old Fashion Way",I STEAL IT!!!! :bandit:
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

There is also something psychologically damaging about having unstable electricity, knowing that at any moment and without warning you could be left in complete darkness sweating your balls off without the slightest breeze to keep the mosquito clouds off of you can make you feel that ultimately you have little or no control over your life.

This business of the PLD "helping the poor" is such a huge crock. All they are doing, along with all the past governments is helping poverty itself. It's nice to play big sugar daddy to the poor and foot the bill for the lousy electrical service while at the same time charging everyone else some of the highest prices around for the same crappy non-service.

At the same time they think nothing of charging top dollar for the provilege of being governed while denying the basic services any government regardless of its ideology is expected to provide. Poor police protection, bad roads, electricity only 50% of the time, still rampant corruption at every level of government, and the fact that the DR contributes the lowest percentage of public funds in Latin America to the education of its own citizens is a continual source of frustration. Haiti must really suck for its people to have to come here to find opportunities.

I need some Presidente...
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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While I agree with you and have always felt that Leonel has done wonders fixing an economy that was wrecked by Hippo, it is strange that the latest Gallup-Hoy poll, as reported in yesterday's DR1 news doesn't agree:

The fact that only 12% of those polled felt the economy is good leads me to believe that I may out of touch with reality. However, it would be good to see the full results of the poll.

Does anyone have a link to the full results of the poll?
Rellosk,

You should know by now that a good number of Dominicans are pessimist from birth. From the moment they are born, all they do is complaint that nothing is improving. There are even a good number of well paid, middle class, Dominicans who would leave the country if they would be given the chance. Pessimism is structured into this society, this makes such poll less remarkable or less surprising.

I don't put too much emphasis on polls taken in this country. I personally believe that these polls are being asked to the wrong people, because most Dominicans will respond with their personal issues at hand. Go right ahead, ask a typical Dominican if things are good, and if their personal finances are not good (even if most other peoples are), they will say no and blame the president for everything.

However, ask them specific questions (such as, have the overall cost of living for you increased at the same rate it did during the past four years, etc) and they will answer your questions. Collect all the answers and combined them and voila, the real picture of the economy comes to play.

Another thing these economic polls should focus on business owners from both big and small companies. Afterall, these are some of the first people to see the effects of the economic cycle through increases or decreases in their profits and/or sales volume. Other flaws with these polls is that they don't clarify where they took the poll, in what parts of town, whether most of the people asked were poor, middle class, rich, etc.

Polls are meaningless in the short run.

Ask a person today if they feel good and they will say yes. Ask them tomorrow at this same hour and they might say yes or they might say no. A poll is only an opinion in a snapshot of a time and opinions are constantly changing.

When it comes to economics, take your heart to where the data is, not to what people think. The Data does not lie.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
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Rocky said:
That's why I worry when I see posts like desiarnez' above.
It wouldn't take much to sway the vote in the next election when at least 90% of the country's population doesn't understand economics.
We should start preaching the word to all our Dominican friends as of now, to make sure they understand and don't throw us and the whole country into a bottomless pit with another Hippo.
We have 3 years to convince them.
It's more like 98% of the country don't understand economics or don't want to understand.

I know some well educated people in prestigious professions and positions who don't fully believe in economics. Of course, we do have our little "chats" and I present to them the data I have collected, I present to them the scenerios that could come as a result of the current situation and I make my prediction after careful analysis of the situation and of the nature of the person in charge. Many take what I say on a 50/50 deal, meaning they take it as a "just in case you are right".

Then time passes and almost always, I end up being the closest predictor of what actually happened.

Am I a God? Hardly.
Did I do magic? Not at all.
Am I a fortuneteller? Unfortunately, no.

How come I end up closer to reality than many of my closest buddies? Let's just say that I believe in economic, but more importantly I believe in math. Some people just don't want to accept the fact that with math, one can get very close to finding out the truth in these things.

But, that is their problem. I really hope they don't plan on gambling for the rest of their lives. The mathematical laws of probability says that in the long run, a gambler will lose. I will take the mathematicians word, but others will want to find out on their own....
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,517
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Criss Colon said:
The number one problem in the Dominican Republic!
"Inflation" and "Crime" can both be laid at the "doorstep" of the "Electricity" problem!
Homes and business' (Free Zones are going "belly-Up" for lack of stable electricity!!)fortunate enough to have a "Planta" are more and more dependent upon those "plantas" for their electricity.If a "Colmado" must use it's "planta" to save it's inventory,and sell cervesa,"Bien Fria" the cost of running the "Planta" must be passed on to their customers,hence "Inflation"!
Being in the "Security" service I know that two ways to increase "Crime",is to increase inflation,"Indirect method",and to decrease "illumination","Direct method!A guy who can't buy something he wants because it is out of his reach,may choose to steal it instead."Darkness" is the friend of the thief,and makes him more bold and therefore more active.
I have been visiting the DR for 20 years,and a working resident for 10 years.I said it before,and I surely will say it again,"Without stable affordabe electricity the DR will NEVER pull itself out of the "Third World,or "Developing Nation" Status!!!
The Dominican Government is to blame,as they have made electric cost subsidies for the "POOR" into a "Political Right" that no party has the "Balls" to eliminate!If "Social Security Benefits" is the "Third Rail" of "American Politics, "Electric Energy Subsidies" to the huge number of Dominican "Poor" is the "Third Rail" here!....
"Touch "IT" and you commit political suicide!!!"

I get MY electricity the "Old Fashion Way",I STEAL IT!!!! :bandit:
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Never is a long time, but I agree with you.

Electricity is a problem. We would have been much more economically advanced right now if the electricity deal would have been fixed. This is why it's a miracle that we are showing such high economic growth with the current electricity deficit. Imagine what it would have been if the electricity problem was fixed!!
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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mondongo said:
This claim is basically true. The exchange rate went down to 37 days after Leonel was inaugurated. If we are looking for facts, that was essentially factual.
One thing Desiarnez forgets to say is that the peso declined several times in Hippos rule and then, as out of nowhere, it skyrocketed into record breaking territory. The party was playing arbitrage with the advantage of knowing exactly when to buy and when to sell!!!

The fact that the peso began to decline under Hipolito was simply another rollercoaster ride in the making. Remember, Hipolito was planning on cheating in the elections, but circumstances prevented him from doing so, though some of his thogs did manage to scare some people in Barahona and San Pedro de Macoris with an attempt robbery of the ballot boxes. Remember that incident?

The fact that Leonel came into power, simply allowed these better educated stock of people to keep the peso low through fiscal RESPONSIBILITY.

I'm not PRD, never will be.

Everytime they come into the power, the country goes to hell in a handbag!!!

The last time they were in power was in the mid-1980s and guess what, when they left they gave Balaguer a country in CRISIS. In that time, it was the worst crisis the country was ever subjected to, until 2000 came with the PRD again, which they broke their own record in the creation of the worst crisis in Dominican history!!!!

That party should be outlawed!!!

It's the most anti-Dominican party to have ever come into existence!!!!

On top of that, they were extremely passive with illegal immigrants, even granting Dominican citizenship to thousands who were in the country for barely a month!!!!

And all those prisoners Hipolito released the from the country jails before he left office? And people are wondering why crime spiked soon after Leonel came to power!!!!

Hipolito, his crummy party, and all his supporters can all jump on a yola and leave the island in the hands of people who can truly manage to save this island!!!

PRD is no good!!!! No Good!!!! No Good!!!! NO GOOD!!!!!

Only PLD and PRSC are "modest", the PRD is way out of line.

Who needs a three party system anyways? Let's give them the boot!! All they do is bring more problems, never solutions!!!
 
Last edited:

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Read today's DR1 News

The argument is not whether Fernandez is better than Hippo. No sane person would bring back Hippo. Let's stop beating that dead horse.

What I'm personally trying to do is to look deeper into the economic numbers. You can't just read the headline number: +5% read GDP. The DR economy has improved under PLD. But a blindfolded monkey as president could do better than the travesty that was Hippo.

If you look into the numers (I assume that you can do this easily, Nal0whs), you find that Fernandez wants to make all these IMF/DR-CAFTA fiscal "adjustments" while maintaining revenue neutrality for the federal govt (himself). In doing so, the burden of supporting the massive federal budget has shifted more and more onto the average Dominican and average Dominican business. This is in the data. I can provide them if you like.

If you read today's DR1 News, you find that the Central Bank governor has admitted as much: the benefits of the economy have not yet reached the average Dominican.

You can't compare Fernandez to Hippo. Hippo was just an over-the-counter thief. You have to compare Fernandez to what he should be doing.

Edited to add link:
http://www.listindiario.com.do/cuerpos/dinero/din1.htm

I can't vouch for the numbers (82%) used in this article (they engage in hyperbolae), but the tenet of the article makes a reasonable impression.
 
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DesiArnez6

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Ok, Economics and Math ;)

First Math, Who brought the peso the furthest down from 56:1? Hipolito brought it much further, and even if it were a roller coaster ride why not raise it again and maybe drop it after he lost before inauguration? As for leonel bringing it down further with fiscal responsibility? I'm sorry but i just do not believe that the peso is really worth 28.8 to $1 US Dollar. I don't It is simply not worth that much, especially the way other economies have been shifting recently, I believe that rate is artificial and doesnt count.

Economics, you can only be soooo efficient. It sounds good, Leonel wants to cut waste and privitize. End result lost jobs. Maybe doesnt sound so severe, but, do it on the large scale... end result serious unemployment... never good :( Note: Keynesian Economics, theory that generally is accepted as valid, partly do to, yes, a reasonable degree of waste, spending, economic circulation. Extra empolyees in an inefficient government operated system will spend that extra inefficient money on other things, example, Roosevelt, multiple government employment projects, example, multiple construction projects during hipolito, roads everywhere. But, unemployed do not contribute to this economic circulation, and efficiency no matter how you put it contributes to unemployment, just as automated computerized bankers hurt demand for live tellers, and automated 411 system results in more layoffs, and more competition, and less benefits.

As for CAFTA, yes i am dissapointed at some of the PRD members support for it as well, tho they have been more skeptical, and have been trying to appropriately compensate for lost revenue

As for calling the PLD and PRSC, the more moderate party ofr something of that effect, remember that the PLD was originally the PRD before the split, and those who were opposition to Balaguer, well they are lucky to be alive now. I would fear for freedom to see the PRSC back into power, maybe PRD jailed some critics for 2 days, they didnt have mass shootings and dissapearances, and questionings of the PRSC, back then there was seious political opression and fear for life.

If PRD were so bad, they wouldn't have had such a close loss in the election, and after all, they beat the PRSC by a longshot, PRSC barely had 10%. Not to mention constant polls had Leonel losing points fast, and Hipolito Gainig, remember in February PRD was drifting around 15%, I have never seen a candidate in my life gain so much ground in such a short time, nor have i seen someone (PLD) lose so much suoppor, In February they were almost 80%. Why? Because things drastically improved. Even the electricity was better, I could finally buy yogurt, after February there was so much electricity that transformers were blowing all around and yet EDENORTE came immediatly and fixed within an hour and a half. It was like NY, I remember actually asking my frieinds how far back the last blackout was. And complaining because juice was always ice frozen, heh the good old days, of course everyone was shocked when Hipolito lost and the lights still stayed on

Btw the way, I am from La Penda, La Vega,, needless to sayi am sad to see how everything continued to rise, Plantains now at $10 pesos??? geez, the peso so low, and prices still go up? I would like Leonel to try price control on goods, when the peso went down, he didnt force price reduction, the profits were eaten up by the large companies and not passed down to the average dominican.;or an investment in other forms of electricity, hydroelectric, coal, alternative fuels, as long as it is powered by diesel i think it will be hopeless.

Last I cannot believe he rose the price of cooking gas, :( totaly hipocritical after runiing those ads about people cooking with fire, thanks to him... yes, I will continue to cook with fire, end rant ;)

PRD Always ;)
 
May 12, 2005
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Keynsian Economics?? Price Controls?? Sounds like you'd enjoy the company of Comrade Fidel my friend. I suggest you read some Milton Friedman.
 

rabre004

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DesiArnez6 said:
First Math, Who brought the peso the furthest down from 56:1? Hipolito brought it much further, and even if it were a roller coaster ride why not raise it again and maybe drop it after he lost before inauguration? As for leonel bringing it down further with fiscal responsibility? I'm sorry but i just do not believe that the peso is really worth 28.8 to $1 US Dollar. I don't It is simply not worth that much, especially the way other economies have been shifting recently, I believe that rate is artificial and doesnt count.

Economics, you can only be soooo efficient. It sounds good, Leonel wants to cut waste and privitize. End result lost jobs. Maybe doesnt sound so severe, but, do it on the large scale... end result serious unemployment... never good :( Note: Keynesian Economics, theory that generally is accepted as valid, partly do to, yes, a reasonable degree of waste, spending, economic circulation. Extra empolyees in an inefficient government operated system will spend that extra inefficient money on other things, example, Roosevelt, multiple government employment projects, example, multiple construction projects during hipolito, roads everywhere. But, unemployed do not contribute to this economic circulation, and efficiency no matter how you put it contributes to unemployment, just as automated computerized bankers hurt demand for live tellers, and automated 411 system results in more layoffs, and more competition, and less benefits.

As for CAFTA, yes i am dissapointed at some of the PRD members support for it as well, tho they have been more skeptical, and have been trying to appropriately compensate for lost revenue

As for calling the PLD and PRSC, the more moderate party ofr something of that effect, remember that the PLD was originally the PRD before the split, and those who were opposition to Balaguer, well they are lucky to be alive now. I would fear for freedom to see the PRSC back into power, maybe PRD jailed some critics for 2 days, they didnt have mass shootings and dissapearances, and questionings of the PRSC, back then there was seious political opression and fear for life.

If PRD were so bad, they wouldn't have had such a close loss in the election, and after all, they beat the PRSC by a longshot, PRSC barely had 10%. Not to mention constant polls had Leonel losing points fast, and Hipolito Gainig, remember in February PRD was drifting around 15%, I have never seen a candidate in my life gain so much ground in such a short time, nor have i seen someone (PLD) lose so much suoppor, In February they were almost 80%. Why? Because things drastically improved. Even the electricity was better, I could finally buy yogurt, after February there was so much electricity that transformers were blowing all around and yet EDENORTE came immediatly and fixed within an hour and a half. It was like NY, I remember actually asking my frieinds how far back the last blackout was. And complaining because juice was always ice frozen, heh the good old days, of course everyone was shocked when Hipolito lost and the lights still stayed on

Btw the way, I am from La Penda, La Vega,, needless to sayi am sad to see how everything continued to rise, Plantains now at $10 pesos??? geez, the peso so low, and prices still go up? I would like Leonel to try price control on goods, when the peso went down, he didnt force price reduction, the profits were eaten up by the large companies and not passed down to the average dominican.;or an investment in other forms of electricity, hydroelectric, coal, alternative fuels, as long as it is powered by diesel i think it will be hopeless.

Last I cannot believe he rose the price of cooking gas, :( totaly hipocritical after runiing those ads about people cooking with fire, thanks to him... yes, I will continue to cook with fire, end rant ;)

PRD Always ;)

I feel sorry for the DR with people like DesiArnez6 living there. I don't see the point to even replying to his post, lets just ignore this clown.
 

Robert

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DesiArnez6 - If you shake your head hard enough your notice it's US dirt coming out. So tell us, how long have you lived and worked in the DR?

A few facts for you in regard to the 2004 election.

Yeah right, it was one hell of a close one.

PLD winning with 56.69% of the vote, followed by Hipo with 33.91% and Eduardo Estrella with 8.82%. I think your getting close confused with landslide. Plus, PLD dominated the vote abroad with Fernandez receiving at least 66% of the votes.

How well do you remember the last few hours of the election?
You know, when Judge Arias talked about the delay in the official results due to the rain, but in fact it was the PRD thugs that had attempted to delay and impede the validation of the voter certificates.

What about Guido Gomez, another PRD election hero?

It took Monsignor Nunez Collado and a bunch of ambassadors to beat some sense into the JCE. They finally addressed the nation and confirmed Fernandez had swept the election.

Would you like me to continue?

I think PRD history speaks for itself...
 

MrMike

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Oh come on guys...

DR presidential politics is not about good vs evil, or good economics vs bad economics.

It's about which thug is less likely to mug you personally, and for the privileged its about which thug is going to share some of the loot with you if you are an accomplice to his crimes.

Hippo is an insult to the dignity of all Dominicans everywhere and to the democratic process in general, but the PLD is at least just as evil. Most of them can speak Spanish without sounding like drunk campesinos with a mouthfull of mangu, but as far as I can tell so far that is the only improvement over the last government.

The fact that they have the press convinced there is economic recovery going on and have the exchange rate artificially controlled doesn't make them a success.

I believe that if they get some senators in office during the next round of elections we will begin to see their true colors and they are going to be ugly colors. Assuming there are "free" elections in 2008 the PRSC will probably win because the country will still be sick of Hippo and his bunch and they will be sick of the PLD by then as well, and willing to vote for someone new regardless of any other issues.
 

RHM

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Most of them can speak Spanish without sounding like drunk campesinos with a mouthfull of mangu... QUOTE said:
Man, that's too fun. And true.

Hipolito did not have a command presence. He spoke and acted like a chopo. It does not instill confidence and respect. A few years ago he was asked during an interview how long he had been with his wife. I forget the slang verb he used but he said something to the effect of "I have been banging her for 20 years". Amazing. Rubbing Brugal on his head and arms was not very presidential either. Remember that?

His biggest enemy was himself but he was too arrogant to see it. Sometimes it's better to stay quiet. Gotta go now. They're at my door to take me in for questioning. Remember, he said that journalists who bashed the administration in their editorials was a matter of "national security" when he locked them up.

People want to look up to their leaders not down.

Scandall
 

RHM

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Sep 23, 2002
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Scandall said:
Most of them can speak Spanish without sounding like drunk campesinos with a mouthfull of mangu... QUOTE said:
Man, that's too funny. And true.

Hipolito did not have a command presence. He spoke and acted like a chopo. It does not instill confidence and respect. A few years ago he was asked during an interview how long he had been with his wife. I forget the slang verb he used but he said something to the effect of "I have been banging her for 20 years". Amazing. Rubbing Brugal on his head and arms was not very presidential either. Remember that?

His biggest enemy was himself but he was too arrogant to see it. Sometimes it's better to stay quiet. Gotta go now. They're at my door to take me in for questioning. Remember, he said that journalists who bashed the administration in their editorials was a matter of "national security" when he locked them up.

People want to look up to their leaders not down.

PS: People can say what the want about the US but free speech is alive and well. There are more America haters inside the US than outside. They are VERY vocal as well as protected by the law. Protests and demonstrations are rare in the DR because people don't want to be harrassed and/or locked up for speaking their minds. Well...that AND the laziness factor. I was bracing for the "revolution" during Hippos last 2 years and was amazed it never came. The people have been conditioned to being abused and let down by corrupt politicians.

Scandall
 
May 31, 2005
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Scandall said:
Scandall said:
Most of them can speak Spanish without sounding like drunk campesinos with a mouthfull of mangu... QUOTE said:
Man, that's too funny. And true.

Hipolito did not have a command presence. He spoke and acted like a chopo. It does not instill confidence and respect. A few years ago he was asked during an interview how long he had been with his wife. I forget the slang verb he used but he said something to the effect of "I have been banging her for 20 years". Amazing. Rubbing Brugal on his head and arms was not very presidential either. Remember that?

His biggest enemy was himself but he was too arrogant to see it. Sometimes it's better to stay quiet. Gotta go now. They're at my door to take me in for questioning. Remember, he said that journalists who bashed the administration in their editorials was a matter of "national security" when he locked them up.

People want to look up to their leaders not down.

PS: People can say what the want about the US but free speech is alive and well. There are more America haters inside the US than outside. They are VERY vocal as well as protected by the law. Protests and demonstrations are rare in the DR because people don't want to be harrassed and/or locked up for speaking their minds. Well...that AND the laziness factor. I was bracing for the "revolution" during Hippos last 2 years and was amazed it never came. The people have been conditioned to being abused and let down by corrupt politicians.

Scandall
I think he said "20 A?os dando etilla".
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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One image for me sums up the PRD mentality.

hip_peg.jpg
 

Stodgord

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Nov 19, 2004
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Scandall said:
Thanks, I couldn't remember his exact wording. What a classy guy.

Scandall


Jorges Ramos from Univision did an interview of Hipolito and at the end of the interview Hipolito said do you see that monito (monkey) behind the camera, then he went on, on slapping the camera man several times. Man Hipolito is a scum...