When does a dominican American (morenos) become an African American or Puerto Rican?

[sunshine_79]

Yeah you are so right that is the reason there is racism in the US. Glad you figured it all out. Those mean black folks inflicting their racism on everyone else.

Okay, please stop with the self righteousness. My point was that there will always be racism in the US as long as people have to label themselves as anything but Americans.

I'm not pointing fingers at any particular race.

When people like you make comments such as the one you made, doesn't it just add fuel to the fire? When did I mention anything about "mean black folks"?

I didn't.

We all have out heritage and ancestry but at the end of the day, we're plain old Americans.

What is so wrong with that?

 

[xamaicano]

I not adding any fuel to the fire. Whenever the subject of racism comes up on this board, even when wasn't brought up by or about black americans, invariably the discussion turns to them. Historically race has been an important part of their identity and not by choice. Now that it makes people uncomfortable they should just shut up about it. They see themselves as separate because that is how the were always treated. Ignoring the elephant in the room is going to make it go away.

 

[Bahamasgirl]

Me being West indian Afro-carribean or lets say for the sake of aguement negro it is hard for any of us to be put into any one group but lets face the facts ever since slavery people have looked down on being "Black" because of this if you were able to pass or claim somthing else you would. note that during slavey in puerto rico and in dr and other spanish and portuguese countries in latin america if you were mullatto you could obtain papers to make yourself "white" this is a fact and also mulattos and other mixtures(quadroon Octoroons) got a higher price on the auction block. My husband who is a Black dominican knows where he comes from is proud to be dominican and has no problem with being black. we live in the southrern US only thrity or so years ago if he or any other black or mixed Dominicans had been here we both would have encounterd the same problems of dicrimination he not not have been able to eat in a resturant with whites drink from the same water fountain ect. because lets face it in the and though out the US if they would not have said oh he or she is not black they are Dominican NO! they would have called you a Ni**er and you would be treated the same racisim is a mu***f***r . and as a side note Africans dont really identify themselves with afro-americans they accknowledge that they are black but still se themselves as different. Love who you are and where you come from many people stuggled black indo and white so you could be here dont be scared to give them a shout out!

 

[Rick Snyder]

As a few people seem to want to play games with names I thought I would supply you with a few links for your reading pleasure;

http://www.dogonvillage.com/dogonforum/DCForumID7/89.html
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/printthread.php?t=23536&pp=40
http://www.islandmix.com/backchat/showthread.php?t=7694
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American
http://groups.msn.com/BowmanSimsAfricanAmericanCreations/africanamericandefinition.msnw
http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/articles/people/a_race.html

Rick

 

[Piddypat]

My question is this, why is it that some black latinos will be quick to tell someone "I'm not black, I'm Panamanian, Dominican, etc." even tho some of them are darker than me with nappier hair. If I was to tell someone that I am not black, I am Haitian, they would look at me funny. But the former is often accepted. In my mind, Panama, Dominican Republic, etc. are countries thus making being Panamanian et. al a nationality, not a race. I am just curious as to why this attitude is so prevalent? But at the same time, I know that a many Dominicans are of mixed heritage and so maybe they just say Dominican to encompass everything they are racially.
-Confused.

 

[aleco]

Piddypat,

I'm sure most black Latinos who say they're not black, but revealed their nationalities, probably meant to say: though they might look African-American, they're from Latin America. I'm part Haitian myself, and I look and probably am whiter than most Latinos I know; but still identify myself as black of Haitian/German origin... Now my children on the other hand (since they were born and raise here in the US) identify themselves as 100% African-American. BTW my wife is from Germany, so there's very little (if any black) in my children's skin tone and features. I guess being multi-racial, they're entitled to identify with the race they relate to the most... With me it's black Haitian, with my children it's African-American. Interested enough, even white people always wonder why we choose to be identified as black instead of mulattoes or in my kids’ case, even pass for white...

 

[Piddypat]

Piddypat,

I'm sure most black Latinos who say they're not black, but revealed their nationalities, probably meant to say: though they might look African-American, they're from Latin America. I'm part Haitian myself, and I look and probably am whiter than most Latinos I know; but still identify myself as black of Haitian/German origin... Now my children on the other hand (since they were born and raise here in the US) identify themselves as 100% African-American. BTW my wife is from Germany, so there's very little (if any black) in my children's skin tone and features. I guess being multi-racial, they're entitled to identify with the race they relate to the most... With me it's black Haitian, with my children it's African-American. Interested enough, even white people always wonder why we choose to be identified as black instead of mulattoes or in my kids’ case, even pass for white...




Playing devils advocate here:
From now on, when people say to me "Patricia, you are black", would I be founded in responding "I'm not black, I'm Haitian"? Or is that a right that only Black latinos reserve?



Disclaimer: Just here for intelligent discussion here folks.

 

[aleco]

Piddypat,

If you're living in the US, then people would assume you mean you're black Haitian, not black American (since they already know what color you are). So your response would be so correctly implied. I'm not so sure whether most black Latinos know that, but I’m sure as Haitians we both know at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to the MAN how you categorize your blackness I say leave them be and enjoy the few days we have left on this planet. I just keep educating my children on their rich Haitian and German heritage, and tell them to always be proud of who they are. Why would you care how black Latinos identify themselves anyway; It's all so insignificant in the day-to-day realities of living in the US anyway!

Salut!

 

[Piddypat]

Tru dat!
Thank Aleco.

 

[T.O.N.Y]

That is such a lame term. You're either one or the other.

What is so wrong with being an American?

We all have our own heritage but you don't hear a lot of people calling themselves European-Americans, etc.

As I'v said before, there will always be racism in the US as long as people feel the need to subject themselves to separatism.

Why can't someone be an American of African descent? Why the need for the hyphenated title?

My father is from Colombia but I don't call myself a Colombian-American.

And TONY - I'm not talking sh*t to you, I promise. I just hate that term.

I agree the rest of the world views Americans as Americans. Not "African-Americans", "Italian-Americans", etc.

 

[ze pequeno]

I don't understand why some people in the US are so insecure that they have to hide within the realms of some outdated identity.

Pride in one's nationality, heritage and descent is one thing but on the other end of that spectrum is plain old ignorance.

Why do some people call themselves African-Americans when they are born and bred US citizens and have never, not even once, visited Africa?

My definition of a person who falls into the above mentioned category is simply an American. No more, no less.

Mexican-Americans? Dominican-Americans? Americans of Haitian descent?

When does it end???

I'm half Colombian; my biological father emigrated from Bogota with his family when he was younger.

I was born in the US and raised in the US and am an American citizen.

I don't call myself a Colombian-American.

I wonder how come Americans of European descent don't proclaim themselves to be European-American, French-American, etc?

Just some food for thought there.

One of the things that I don't like about the US is the constant presence of racial tension. If people would stop categorizing themselves with these antiquated generalities then perhaps that would be a step in alleviating the problem.

Somebody, whether it be whites, blacks, hispanics, martians, etc, ALWAYS has to be sniveling about inequity. Get over it already.

Is there any group of Americans who are so terribly oppressed these days?

I'm sorry, but if you break the law then you go to jail. Don't cry to the media it's just because you're black. You're an idiot and you broke the law.

If you're a white guy and a black person gets a promotion before you, stop crying about affirmative action. He's probably smarter than you.

If you're poor, don't blame it on being hispanic. Blame it on being uneducated but don't you dare use your heritage as a crutch.

If you're a martian, then, well ... can't really help you out there.

But you get my drift, right?

Like a broken record ... whining, whining and more whining. Give me a break.

Americans are Americans, regardless. It's a wonderful country and a fascinating melting pot of heritages. But in the end, we all bleed the same color.

I wonder how long the US is going to remain a breeding ground for hatred and racism? Probably for as long as people feel the need to isolate themselves into groups. Separatism is going to be the downfall of America one of these days.

You should keep in mind that to some extent, the u.s. government/ various institutions(past & present) have been the originators of designations allocated for racial and/or ethnic minorities.

You seem to adhere to the belief that racial/ethnic labels among non-white american born citizens is something that's primarily contrived and upheld by minorities; actually, many labels hail from the dominant white culture and are simply accepted by minority communities(fill in background). Historically speakng, blacks in the u.s. went from designations of- negro to colored and from colored to black and most recently african-american. What difference does it make? There's native americans, hispanics and asians that add to the mix.

Race matters a great deal in america, regradless of whether you choose to go along with the idea or not.

ze

 

[principe]

never unless your Arod Smith!!!!!

 

[aleco]

Well said ze_pequeno... It needs to be reminded to some people (sadly enough) that it is the US government that has decided to categorize non-European US citizens into selective groupings for their own political/racist reasons (i.e. Hispanic-Americans, Native-American, Afro-American, Black-American, Colored, Asian-American, etc…). Most government forms and/or job applications have a box for you to define to the MAN which hyphenated sub-category you fall in (of course, unless you’re European-American)… Having said that, I think it’s only right that non-European US citizens figure if the US government is going to define them base on their race/origin, they should at least have a say on how they’re being defined (i.e. African-American, Japanese-American, Chinese-American, Mexican-American etc…) I know it might sound silly for people outside of the US, but here in the good ole US of A that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. So if a non-European living in the US doesn’t (or choose not to) understand the complexity of race relations in America, he/she is in for a BIG awakening! All that said, the USA is still the greatest country in the world for non-European people. If you don’t believe that, just take a trip to Europe and/or Canada and try to get a decent job.

 

[RP23]

I went to a luncheon with a professor of Dominican studies from SUNY. She gave us a presentation on the statistics concerning dominican americans. she said that it is hard to record dominican ancestry after 3 generation b/c 4th and 5th generation dominican americans usually identify themselves as smthg else. She said that they either start identifying themselves as black/African Americans or some other latino group (b/c they intermarry w/that latino group). I am guessing that the lighter dominicans that can pass for white probably identify as white by the 4th and 5th generation if they cant be recorded easily either. The interesting thing about this is that most dominican americans that I have met do not consider themselves to be African Americans, but hispanic/latino. In your opinions, when does a black dominican American become an African American?

I agree with you all the way. We need to stick to our roots!!!!!

 

[RP23]

You should keep in mind that to some extent, the u.s. government/ various institutions(past & present) have been the originators of designations allocated for racial and/or ethnic minorities.

You seem to adhere to the belief that racial/ethnic labels among non-white american born citizens is something that's primarily contrived and upheld by minorities; actually, many labels hail from the dominant white culture and are simply accepted by minority communities(fill in background). Historically speakng, blacks in the u.s. went from designations of- negro to colored and from colored to black and most recently african-american. What difference does it make? There's native americans, hispanics and asians that add to the mix.

Race matters a great deal in america, regradless of whether you choose to go along with the idea or not.


ze

I feel that race does matter in American because we are all mixed especailly in New York City. But I must agree with Sunshine_79 with the African Americans slavery ended 300 yrs ago. Stop saying I got arrested because I'm black. Question? Why the African Americans can only use the term nigger on one another, but let a hispanic or a White person use that term and we get called racist.

 

[PerfectIsBoring]

Slavery ended in 1865, didn't it? So its only been about 150 years. Either way...True, slavery is over but people are still persecuted for being Black. People DO get arrested because they're Black, people are treated unfairly because they're Black. And it has rarely has anything to do with what we've labelled ourselves, if its Black or African American or whatever it is that makes a person a supposed seperatist for doing so...because before a racist person hears you say "I'm African American", they see that you're Black. Black people and people of all different colours are discriminated against and the majority of the time they can say it is because of their colour.

I can't answer the n-word question though. Its a concept I don't quite understand, myself. I, for one, think that no one (not even Black people) should use it or any other racial slurs for that matter.

 

[bienamor]

does this include?

I can't answer the n-word question though. Its a concept I don't quite understand, myself. I, for one, think that no one (no even Black people) should use it or any other racial slurs for that matter.

Does this include, Cracker, Oreo, Honky, Whitebread, Zebra, Uncle Tom, ?:ermm:

 

[RP23]

okay i can agree with you on that and you also brought up interesting points.
:glasses:

 

[PerfectIsBoring]

lol! bienamor, about THOSE slurs...if you're talking about crackers, white bread or Oreos as FOOD...or if your uncle's name actually IS Tom...sure, go crazy

RP23, thanks, and I'm glad you can agree on that.

 

[Chirimoya]

Does this include, Cracker, Oreo, Honky, Whitebread, Zebra, Uncle Tom, ?:ermm:

I learned another one of those (read it in a novel set in London) the other day - coconut. Think dried coconut. You don't get those fresh ones there.