Who can stop this tragedy?

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I'm glad the Haitian police have improved and wonder if the old oligopoly structure is also a thing of the past...


Indeed the Haitian police force is one of the successes of the last few years in Haiti.


To which services and commodities, specifically, would you be referring?

If you have any specific questions or cases I would by happy to try and bring you up to speed on that.
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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Orphaned children are being sold as sex slaves, and the pedophiles are avoiding the airports in Haiti because papers are needed.

While these would be terrible things if they are actually happening what is your evidence?

This thread feels a bit alarmist to me.
 

pyratt

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Jan 14, 2007
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I think they let their "God will provide" and "We are Americans doing good" attitudes interfere with reality...

While the idea might be nice I can see several issues:"Why DR and not Haiti?" "Why not northern Haiti?" "Why another language and religion" and I am sure a lot more would arise.

They were most likely trying to do good in the "we are American missionaries, and we know better than you do" attitude so many of them have, which is not going to cut this. I am sure it will be resolved, but those people took a hit as to their program...

And, of course, one problem is where to find the right people to talk to in the first place...there are no government buildings standing according to my students. So where would yuou go to get the proper forms and signitures...I can empathize with these folks...especially with the "get it done" attitudes they bring.

HB
I think they let their "God will provide" and "We are Americans doing good" attitudes interfere with reality

More like "God will provide" and We are CHRISTIANS doing good"....it's always the same crap...religious zealots who define their actions "In the name of Jesus, God, Allah..." or some "other excuse" for their OWN acceptance of improper action. (like the knucklehead who was just convicted of shooting an abortion doctor IN CHURCH...his defense was he was saving unborn lives...puag!)

Just go back to the Catholics of Spain and their complete decimation of the Caribbean, South & Central America...and lest I forget the "pilgrams" who came to the U.S. All in the name of RELIGION

More harm (than good) has been done in the name of religion in the world's history...and these "do gooders" need to start doing the right thing instead of the saintly acts...
I hope Haiti keeps the 10 hillbillies from OK & Kansas in Haiti for along time and sets the example for other U.S. citizens....when in a foreign country, you obey the laws of that nation
 
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SantiagoDR

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Jan 12, 2006
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Good post.
I would change the words "absolute ignorance" for "absolute arrogance", however.

And Gabriela, Haitian police and Dominican Police - TOTALLY DIFFERENT!!
In my experience the Haitian National Police of the last few years are streets ahead of the Dominican police in terms of honesty and integrity.
There is a world of difference - if you want to put this to the test try offering a Haitian police officer 200 gourdes propina after she stops you for a vehicle check!

Speaking as a recent child trafficker myself, I can understand the motivation of these people.
But their execution was laughable.
I read this a couple times, still not sure how to take it, am I missing something or did you just say it wrong? Those words in bold usually mean something bad I thought?
 

Lambada

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pedrochemical explained earlier in the thread (or maybe in a different one) that he has 'inherited' 2 Haitian children whom he got out of Haiti and for whom he now appears to be providing a home. I'm assuming from the quality of his posts and his experience of living in Haiti that there is a family connection and that he used the word 'trafficking' tongue in cheek.

This is a bit different from what on the surface appear to be a well intentioned group of mission people who probably have minimal knowledge of the country and whose spiritual fervour might preclude self-questioning: I guess if you truly believe you are doing God's work then man-made regulations & the laws of a country get relegated to a place of less importance.

What I feel is unfortunate is that this sort of thing uses the resources of the Haitian police, judiciary & US Embassy when I'm sure they have far more pressing concerns - there are 2 videos here:
Pastor Defends Church Members Held in Haiti

Members of Idaho-based charity detained in Haiti
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I read this a couple times, still not sure how to take it, am I missing something or did you just say it wrong? Those words in bold usually mean something bad I thought?


I was being a little tongue in cheek - but the fact still remains that taking minors across a national border without paperwork is trafficking. You can go to jail for this - and that is how it should be.

There seems to be an arrogant beleif that being a child in Haiti is a far worse fate than being exported to the US and growing up as a sedentary Playstation obsessed, gun toting, type 2 diabetes, lard-assed, prescription drug addicted, litigious pudding who believes that having a TV in every room and 2 SUVs on credit is essential for a meaningful life.

The 2 kids I have here are home sick and want their mummies.
Thankfully their mummies are on the way.
As soon as the bodies have rotted down sufficiently so that disease is not so much of an issue, they will return.


Also, I have been instructed to stay off the topic of religion as some of the less well witted contributors have had their sensibilities offended.

THIS IS THE 400KG FKN GORILLA IN THE ROOM!
IT IS COSTING LIVES AND CAUSING MISERY AND SUSTAINS THE HELL THAT IS HAPPENING.
 
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bob saunders

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There seems to be an arrogant beleif that being a child in Haiti is a far worse fate than being exported to the US and growing up as a sedentary Playstation obsessed, gun toting, type 2 diabetes, lard-assed, prescription drug addicted, litigious pudding who believes that having a TV in every room and 2 SUVs on credit is essential for a meaningful life.
The 2 kids I have here are home sick and want their mummies.
Thankfully their mummies are on the way.
As soon as the bodies have rotted down sufficiently so that disease is not so much of an issue, they will return.
Also, I have been instructed to stay off the topic of religion as some of the less well witted contributors have had their sensibilities offended.
THIS IS THE 400KG FKN GORILLA IN THE ROOM!
IT IS COSTING LIVES AND CAUSING MISERY AND SUSTAINS THE HELL THAT IS HAPPENING.
I agree with quite a lot of what you say here, both the part about children and the will of ------, The L--ds will. As you know Haiti much better than I do, do you believe this is a major block in the country moving forward?
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I agree with quite a lot of what you say here, both the part about children and the will of ------, The L--ds will. As you know Haiti much better than I do, do you believe this is a major block in the country moving forward?


Yes.
There is a common saying in Haiti that "Only G-d can judge me."
This gives the bad guys immunity for each and every crime.

They beleive that 200k people are dead because T-- L--d G-- A--ight- is ****ed at them. That they brought this on themselves.
This is what they are taught.

Ask a Haitian where g-d was on the 12th January and they have 1 of 2 answers - he works in mysterious ways or he is punishing us.

Voudou is even more punitious than chr--tian--y in this regard.
They beleive that Loupgarous (werewolves / lycanthrops) will eat their children given half the chance.

This winds me up as I am trying to explain to a 4 year old and a 6 year old that nobody is trying to kill them. The piles of mashed up bodies were not their fault. They are good people and it is OK to laugh again.

Sometimes I catch them off guard and they giggle and laugh like children should. But when a truck goes past the apartment and the windows vibrate, they look at me like G-d is coming back to finish them off.

I have assured them that if G-d even attempts to come into my apartment he will see the skinny end of my machete.
They are safe here.

Sorry Mods, but that is how it is in my house.


As long as Haitians are taught from birth that their actions are incidental to their own futures, there is little hope of them breaking free from the self imposed slavery of superstition.
 

CFA123

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May 29, 2004
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Excerpt from http://www.esbctwinfalls.com/clientimages/24453/pdffiles/haiti/nlcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf

The Plan:
Rescue Orphans from Port au Prince, Haiti
? Friday/Saturday, Jan 22nd : NLCR team fly to the DR
? Sun Jan 23rd: Drive bus from Santo Domingo into Port au Prince, Haiti and gather 100
orphans from the streets and collapsed orphanages, then return to the DR
? Mon Jan 24th: Bus arrives in Cabarete, DR at New Life Children Refuge
? Haiti Team: Laura Silsby, Charisa Coulter, Carla Thompson, Nicole & Corrinna Lankford
Paul Thompsons Team from East Side Baptist Church, Twin Falls


'drive bus into.. haiti and gather 100 orphans from the streets...' Cool plan, huh?:tired:
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Excerpt from http://www.esbctwinfalls.com/clientimages/24453/pdffiles/haiti/nlcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf

The Plan:
Rescue Orphans from Port au Prince, Haiti
? Friday/Saturday, Jan 22nd : NLCR team fly to the DR
? Sun Jan 23rd: Drive bus from Santo Domingo into Port au Prince, Haiti and gather 100
orphans from the streets and collapsed orphanages, then return to the DR
? Mon Jan 24th: Bus arrives in Cabarete, DR at New Life Children Refuge
? Haiti Team: Laura Silsby, Charisa Coulter, Carla Thompson, Nicole & Corrinna Lankford
Paul Thompsons Team from East Side Baptist Church, Twin Falls


'drive bus into.. haiti and gather 100 orphans from the streets...' Cool plan, huh?:tired:

What happened to the kids in the end?
 

Mujermaravilla

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Jun 15, 2006
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I was being a little tongue in cheek - but the fact still remains that taking minors across a national border without paperwork is trafficking. You can go to jail for this - and that is how it should be.

There seems to be an arrogant beleif that being a child in Haiti is a far worse fate than being exported to the US and growing up as a sedentary Playstation obsessed, gun toting, type 2 diabetes, lard-assed, prescription drug addicted, litigious pudding who believes that having a TV in every room and 2 SUVs on credit is essential for a meaningful life.

The 2 kids I have here are home sick and want their mummies.
Thankfully their mummies are on the way.
As soon as the bodies have rotted down sufficiently so that disease is not so much of an issue, they will return.


Also, I have been instructed to stay off the topic of religion as some of the less well witted contributors have had their sensibilities offended.

THIS IS THE 400KG FKN GORILLA IN THE ROOM!
IT IS COSTING LIVES AND CAUSING MISERY AND SUSTAINS THE HELL THAT IS HAPPENING.

Weren't you bragging and being arrogant about the way you brought those children to DR? Didn't you say that thanks to a tip Dominican authorities let you pass those kids? It looks to me that your actions are worse than the missionaries' .

Now you want to bring their mothers over. Will that be illegally too? I just love how you BLAST the DR any chance you get yet this country saves your behind and those of the ones you love. When you got sick from a bite? DR, when the earthquake hits DR is you safe haven. You are even arrogant enough to bring people illegally and blame poor soldiers for making your crimes easy. Remember you aren't doing us any favors.... We are.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Weren't you bragging and being arrogant about the way you brought those children to DR? Didn't you say that thanks to a tip Dominican authorities let you pass those kids? It looks to me that your actions are worse than the missionaries' .

Now you want to bring their mothers over. Will that be illegally too? I just love how you BLAST the DR any chance you get yet this country saves your behind and those of the ones you love. When you got sick from a bite? DR, when the earthquake hits DR is you safe haven. You are even arrogant enough to bring people illegally and blame poor soldiers for making your crimes easy. Remember you aren't doing us any favors.... We are.


So the better play was to leave them in the streets of Port au Prince?
And their mothers too?
If you would not do this for your family then shame on you and more is the pity for them.
I am better brought up than that.

When my family is in trouble I am there for them.
When I am in trouble my family is there for me.


Snipe all you want but your small minded, politically correct, specious arguments are laughable when compared to the well being of my family.

If I waited for the "relief effort" they may have been collected and shipped to who knows where?
That is what this thread is about.

Again, thank providence these kids and their moms are not members of your family!! They wouldbe left to fend for themselves.

When I criticise the D.R. it is because of people like you, who have no experience of the issues.


As for my animal bite - I fixed that in Haiti - thanks for the concern.

What exactly wound you up about what I did?

Or is it something I said that offended you?

The truth is hard to swallow when your mouth is full of bile.
Again, shame on you.
 
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Mujermaravilla

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I'm just point out the hypocrisy in your posts. I don't see how you bringing these kids is ok but the police letting you pass is not. What if they didn't let you pass?

You know nothing about me. You don't even know how I feel about what you did. You do know how I feel about your attitude towards Dominicans. I am glad you were able to take care of your problem in Haiti. I would never want anything to happen to any human being. No matter how much I disagree with that person. I just wanted to remind you that your first instinct when anything goes wrong is to RUN to DR that is all. You can say what you want but do not forget for one moment that we are Sheltering you, your family, and thousands if not millions of others affected by this tragedy.

A little appreciation is due, without hypocrisy, without sarcasm.
 

Ezequiel

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Jun 4, 2008
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If anything, the arrest of well meaning rescuers shows how we cannot depend on Dominican policing to arrest the right people. For sure the real traffickers will pay and get through without arrest.

I think it's time for the DR to closed its border to incoming traffic from Haiti, no more injured patients, no more missionaries, no more letting people enter the DR for humanitarian purposes. The U.S.A is no longer airlifting injured patients to the STATES because nobody knows who is going to pay for their medical bills.

And now we have all kind of weirdo from the U.S and other countries using the DR as a trampoline to smuggle Haitian children to do who know what.

All those foreigners who are or who had smuggled a single Haitian child to the DR should be put in a DR jail for a few years and then deported back to their countries.

Before a single orphan was taken to the U.S. Canada or Europe those countries issues those orphans visas to enter. I don't see why some foreigner feel they can do in the DR what they would have never dared to do in their country of origin!
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I'm just point out the hypocrisy in your posts. I don't see how you bringing these kids is ok but the police letting you pass is not. What if they didn't let you pass?

You know nothing about me. You don't even know how I feel about what you did. You do know how I feel about your attitude towards Dominicans. I am glad you were able to take care of your problem in Haiti. I would never want anything to happen to any human being. No matter how much I disagree with that person. I just wanted to remind you that your first instinct when anything goes wrong is to RUN to DR that is all. You can say what you want but do not forget for one moment that we are Sheltering you, your family, and thousands if not millions of others affected by this tragedy.

A little appreciation is due, without hypocrisy, without sarcasm.


Hypocrisy?
I was commending the D.R. border guards for not gouging me whilst I was desperately trying to get the kids out.
They were great and I said this. They could have demanded much more money or even refused the children entry.
I have also commented that I have been overwhelmed by the humane attitude of the Dominicans concerning this disaster.

You (D.R.) are not sheltering me - I pay my rent - I have my visa all in order. I pay ITBIS, commit no crime and even pay my electricity bill. (Seriously!)
I contribute to the economy.

I did not run to the D.R. - luckily I was here on holiday, supporting the economy with my hard and honestly earned cash when this happened.
I have never taken a penny from the D.R.

All I know about you is what you write.
Pretty ugly of late.
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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I think it's time for the DR to closed its border to incoming traffic from Haiti, no more injured patients, no more missionaries, no more letting people enter the DR for humanitarian purposes. The U.S.A is no longer airlifting injured patients to the STATES because nobody knows who is going to pay for their medical bills.

And now we have all kind of weirdo from the U.S and other countries using the DR as a trampoline to smuggle Haitian children to do who know what.

All those foreigners who are or who had smuggled a single Haitian child to the DR should be put in a DR jail for a few years and then deported back to their countries.

Before a single orphan was taken to the U.S. Canada or Europe those countries issues those orphans visas to enter. I don't see why some foreigner feel they can do in the DR what they would have never dared to do in their country of origin!

Actually it was just anounced that medical flights would resume. Back in the 60's and 70's many a Dominican family had a Haitian child that they had bought for 5-10 pesos. These children mainly were raised as family members ( like having a cousin from the campo living with you) I know of a least 4 in Jarabacoa that attended school and are now Adult Dominicans of Haitian ancestry. Even now I'm sure with a great deal of effort I could have arranged to adopt/buy a Haitian child in the DR before the earthquake.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I think it's time for the DR to closed its border to incoming traffic from Haiti, no more injured patients, no more missionaries, no more letting people enter the DR for humanitarian purposes. The U.S.A is no longer airlifting injured patients to the STATES because nobody knows who is going to pay for their medical bills.

And now we have all kind of weirdo from the U.S and other countries using the DR as a trampoline to smuggle Haitian children to do who know what.

All those foreigners who are or who had smuggled a single Haitian child to the DR should be put in a DR jail for a few years and then deported back to their countries.

Before a single orphan was taken to the U.S. Canada or Europe those countries issues those orphans visas to enter. I don't see why some foreigner feel they can do in the DR what they would have never dared to do in their country of origin!


Well fortunately for all concerned, you do not have a say in this.
Just leave them all there to die? Very classy!

The difference is that these zealots had no idea who all these kids were.
The kids I brought were family.

Anyways, if you follow the IP address you can find where I am posting from.
If you feel that strongly, have the courage of your convictions and have me and the kids arrested.
I am waiting.
 

Mujermaravilla

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Jun 15, 2006
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Well fortunately for all concerned, you do not have a say in this.
Just leave them all there to die? Very classy!

The difference is that these zealots had no idea who all these kids were.
The kids I brought were family.

Anyways, if you follow the IP address you can find where I am posting from.
If you feel that strongly, have the courage of your convictions and have me and the kids arrested.
I am waiting.

I was about to reply to your response to me... but after this post, I just had to laugh it off...

I wish you and your family the best. (Seriously!)