- Thread starter Criss Colon
- Start date
Why do so many Dominicans in the US never learn English
Petaka, congratulations on your Iberian penninsula heritage. I'm also heartened to infer that you are whiter than the average Dominican. Please post your picture in the Media Gallery....that way we can all enjoy your Caucasian countenance.
PS Just how is this related to the OP?
PS Just how is this related to the OP?
Here it is pib
The Economist
I promised I would take you by the hand. Get a free day pass and read at your little heart's content.
The Economist
I promised I would take you by the hand. Get a free day pass and read at your little heart's content.
I'll tell you how this works:
You said:
Like in present time. You know, like now.
Please show me some proof of this.
You obviously didn't read these articles. You have to pay to do so. But to quote the snipet they offer:
So... I am waiting. I don't like BS in my coffee. And I don't like it when people simply lie or misinform to prove their biased agendas.
You said:
Like in present time. You know, like now.
Please show me some proof of this.
You obviously didn't read these articles. You have to pay to do so. But to quote the snipet they offer:
So... I am waiting. I don't like BS in my coffee. And I don't like it when people simply lie or misinform to prove their biased agendas.
Don't be ashamed to reach for the dictionary
Since this thread is about Dominican emigrants' adoption of a new language, let me inculcate you with some of the nuances of the English language. You imply. I infer. In both cases, it is an allusion, not a direct reference.
Edited to untangle a double negative!
Petaka said:
Since this thread is about Dominican emigrants' adoption of a new language, let me inculcate you with some of the nuances of the English language. You imply. I infer. In both cases, it is an allusion, not a direct reference.
Edited to untangle a double negative!
mondongo said:
I know you want to be a model of perfection, but I used what is called street language and I'm sure everybody understood. So going back to the original OP, in your opinon anybody that does not speak or write perfect English does not fit the mold. What a shame, what we are trying to do here is to get the Dominicans to learn it and use as best as they can.
Let me inculcate you something about English, Americans don't give a rat's a$$ how bad you mangle it as long as you can convey the messege.
pib, I'll get something for you. OOps, never mind, I just read the above.
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The fact of the matter is that all generations of Dominicans in the USA, young and old, will be relegated to a below average standard of lving (with some exceptions, of course).
The city of Lawrence, Mass has one of the highest concentrations of Dominicans. The performance (as measured by a state-wide standardized test) of its high school students is, predictably, attrocious. Their scores are some of the very worst in the entire state. Nearly all of the bottom scores are form either Latino or black high schools. All of them share the primal malady language retardation.
1. Immerse the kids in English. They will learn it in 6 months.
2. Set VERY HIGH, not very low, standards. Low expectations lead to low achievement. This perpetuates the Dominican cycle of mediocrity.
3. don't graduate them until they are actually competent.
The city of Lawrence, Mass has one of the highest concentrations of Dominicans. The performance (as measured by a state-wide standardized test) of its high school students is, predictably, attrocious. Their scores are some of the very worst in the entire state. Nearly all of the bottom scores are form either Latino or black high schools. All of them share the primal malady language retardation.
1. Immerse the kids in English. They will learn it in 6 months.
2. Set VERY HIGH, not very low, standards. Low expectations lead to low achievement. This perpetuates the Dominican cycle of mediocrity.
3. don't graduate them until they are actually competent.
It is not fair to blame the Dominicans for their lack of "English" skills!
Most should go to the "Liberal" politicians,Boards of Education,and Teachers unions!
Even "Maine Girl",a teacher who loves the DR and it's People,seems to have set her "standards" of achievement too low,when it comes to their learning English!
These so called "Do-Gooders" have grouped the "ESL","Bi-Lingual Ed" kids into a "pool" of "Under-Achievers"!
This just prolongs their(The Kids) misery! They are "Expected" to fail,and they live up to that expectation!!
There are more,and permenant "jobs" for an ever growing number of teachers!!That is their real goal! Not creating a student to be successful in the job market!!
SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!!!
"Mondongo" and I on the "Same Page"? "Wow"! I have new respect for him.
Now about that "Citizenship??
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Most should go to the "Liberal" politicians,Boards of Education,and Teachers unions!
Even "Maine Girl",a teacher who loves the DR and it's People,seems to have set her "standards" of achievement too low,when it comes to their learning English!
These so called "Do-Gooders" have grouped the "ESL","Bi-Lingual Ed" kids into a "pool" of "Under-Achievers"!
This just prolongs their(The Kids) misery! They are "Expected" to fail,and they live up to that expectation!!
There are more,and permenant "jobs" for an ever growing number of teachers!!That is their real goal! Not creating a student to be successful in the job market!!
SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!!!
"Mondongo" and I on the "Same Page"? "Wow"! I have new respect for him.
Now about that "Citizenship??
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
You have it all wrong, in more than one sense.Criss Colon said:
MaineGirl is a Spanish teacher. You know, as in Spanish as a second language.
Mondongo
I agree with your list. However, Lawrence, MA has also been revitalized by the Dominican community since 80% of the business are Dominican owned. Thus, there is some value to our community. As such, I disagree that all generations will be relegated to below average standards of living.
I think an area of concensus is that we need to increase our level of critical thinking and sophisticated analysis in how we do business, manage organizations/institutions, etc. Taking on a more Americanized pattern of acting per se. This can be accomplished through higher level of education.
And so, I definitely and whole heartedly agree with your list. I would add this:
Teach parents how to help your children study and be examples for your children. I don't think that the Dominican community really knows how to teach their children how to learn. It is not by watching novelas or blasting the radio a to' lo' que da and expect your child to have a conducive learning environment.
I agree with your list. However, Lawrence, MA has also been revitalized by the Dominican community since 80% of the business are Dominican owned. Thus, there is some value to our community. As such, I disagree that all generations will be relegated to below average standards of living.
I think an area of concensus is that we need to increase our level of critical thinking and sophisticated analysis in how we do business, manage organizations/institutions, etc. Taking on a more Americanized pattern of acting per se. This can be accomplished through higher level of education.
And so, I definitely and whole heartedly agree with your list. I would add this:
Teach parents how to help your children study and be examples for your children. I don't think that the Dominican community really knows how to teach their children how to learn. It is not by watching novelas or blasting the radio a to' lo' que da and expect your child to have a conducive learning environment.
mondongo said:
deelt said:
I respect your comment but this is not the norm. It is in every Latinos best interest to speak English. Why because every immigrant before them has. We have so many services available to us past immigrants did not have. If you want to read about mistreatment and discrimination go back in history to the turn of the century and see what living conditions were like for immigrants back then. I also believe (I will get in trouble for saying this) that if you choose to come to the U.S. than you choose to learn English (period). The U.S. does not put a gun to anyones head to come here. If you do not learn English than don't complain when you cant' succeed. I think we deserve more than washing dishes and delivering food...LEARN ENGLISH.
I take the point that most Dominican immigrants are from the less educated end of the spectrum to start with. This leads to them working in menial jobs alongside other Spanish speakers. This is not condusive to learning English.
But when it comes to it, hasn't it been always the case that the first generation of immigrants (especially 40+) does not learn much of the language, let alone master it? Even in the case of other immigrant groups who are viewed as successful compared to Dominicans and other Latin Americans?
The Italians, Poles, Russians, Germans, Scandinavians who went to the US in the past were mostly rural poor, were they not?
The real test should be when one compares the second generation in terms of educational achievement and professional success.
But when it comes to it, hasn't it been always the case that the first generation of immigrants (especially 40+) does not learn much of the language, let alone master it? Even in the case of other immigrant groups who are viewed as successful compared to Dominicans and other Latin Americans?
The Italians, Poles, Russians, Germans, Scandinavians who went to the US in the past were mostly rural poor, were they not?
The real test should be when one compares the second generation in terms of educational achievement and professional success.
Oh Really
I have yet to see a German who does not speak English that immigrated either to Canada or the US. As a matter of fact, I know of many Polish Croatian, and others who speak English with an accent but communicate very well.
There is a secret to learning English, practice practice practice, the more you practice the better you get, the more you want to practice.
Very few Latins that I have know will do what it takes. They are always making excuses.
I have yet to see a German who does not speak English that immigrated either to Canada or the US. As a matter of fact, I know of many Polish Croatian, and others who speak English with an accent but communicate very well.
There is a secret to learning English, practice practice practice, the more you practice the better you get, the more you want to practice.
Very few Latins that I have know will do what it takes. They are always making excuses.
Chirimoya said:
I agree. Having grown up in nyc, I have associated with people from many many ethnic backgrounds....first generation, second generation, etc. It sometimes surprised me as a child to become friends with another child, be invited to his house and then learn that his parents were from Hungary ( just one example). The child would speak perfect English and the parents would also speak English but with a heavy accent. This was the same scenario with several different children from different backgrounds but never with the latinos. The second generation latino kids would always have an accent and when they were with other latino kids, they would speak Spanish..even if there were a bunch of non-latino children present. Additionally, going to their houses was uncomfortable because their parents would either speak broken English and 90% of the conversation would be in Spanish or speak NO English at all. There was little attempt at learning the language and little attempt to assimilate into American culture. This is the main reason IMO why latinos have not been very progressive in the USA as a whole.
Larry
Concur with Fred and Larry
I was stationed in five different areas of the USA and lived in three others before joining the military and I had the exact same experience as Larry in all eight areas. It is also interesting to note that in all the foreign countries that I was stationed in or was sent to for maneuvers English was spoken well or at least to some extent except in the five Latin American countries I was sent to for maneuvers. In the Latin American countries the people, old and young alike, seemed to have no interest in learning any English and as I didn?t speak any Spanish at that time I can not say if they spoke good Spanish therefore unable to determine the level of their education. Here in the DR I have had a number of classes teaching English to Dominicans from the ages of 8 to 40. Of the students younger then 22 there was a 25% drop out rate and of those remaining only 10% really seemed to truly want to learn English. All of the student older then 22 wanted to learn English but the problem was there wern?t very many students in that age frame.
edited for spelling
I was stationed in five different areas of the USA and lived in three others before joining the military and I had the exact same experience as Larry in all eight areas. It is also interesting to note that in all the foreign countries that I was stationed in or was sent to for maneuvers English was spoken well or at least to some extent except in the five Latin American countries I was sent to for maneuvers. In the Latin American countries the people, old and young alike, seemed to have no interest in learning any English and as I didn?t speak any Spanish at that time I can not say if they spoke good Spanish therefore unable to determine the level of their education. Here in the DR I have had a number of classes teaching English to Dominicans from the ages of 8 to 40. Of the students younger then 22 there was a 25% drop out rate and of those remaining only 10% really seemed to truly want to learn English. All of the student older then 22 wanted to learn English but the problem was there wern?t very many students in that age frame.
edited for spelling
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