- Thread starter miguel
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miguel said:
I am actually disappointed by this. The Netherlands and Cuba have met on numerous occasions in Olympics and World Championships, amateur team against amateur team, and sometimes Holland gave them a good fight, even won from Cuba in I think the 2000 Olympics. I thought the introduction of a couple of Major League players in the Dutch team, with Cuba being the exact same amateur team, would make it a bit more close. But alas, it didn't. We would have gotten the same result with our usual amateur Olympic/World Championship team.
By the way, I'm not sure Andrew Jones has ever been to Amsterdam, he barely speaks Dutch.
easygoin said:sorry, I didn't mean to belittle you.
I understand you're point...but a pure base stealer will tell you it is easier to steal third. left-handed hitter actually makes it even easier.... due to second base is pulled over and he can see the short to get a better lead. If they try to pick him off, he's standing on third.
Good points. I'll have to agree to disagree on this one. With a LH batter, there is no one at all in the line of fire to third - home plate is clear. That gives a big advantage, IMO, to the catcher (as opposed to a RH batter). A catcher is challenged in many situations, as Cleef points out, but usually not worth the risk if there is a good arm behind the plate. I would love to see actual numbers of stealers who have challenged Varitek as opposed to Ivan Rodriguez, and even Bengie Molina, at second and third base. I think some people would be quite surprised.
BTW, Piazza for best catcher? Not for me. I'd take Ivan Rodriguez, Molina (take your pick which one), Matheny, and yes, even Varitek over him in a heartbeat (based on catching alone). BTW, it is not my opinion that Varitek is a terrible catcher, not at all, he is just not the best catcher, and his arm often sucks. He does have superior batter knowledge, though I still don't think he's worth the hype or the millions. And he's another one of those to me, that I can't put my finger on it, but I don't like him. It's a character fault of mine that things are black or white when it comes to liking or disliking someone - in that respect, I seldomly see grey. I guess it doesn't help hearing my husband yelling "co?o, marco!" everytime his throw is challenged and beat - that kind of plays on your brain.
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I give up!
You got it, Varitek is much better than Rodriguez. Rodriguez can not even carry Varitek's dirty socks.
Worse than debating politics with someone is debating who's better in baseball when one of the debaters see things one way and is so blinded for a team that NO player in that team can do no wrong.
Let me make you aware that I am NOT a big Ivan Rodriguez fan but I give credit where credit is do and if people go to the stats, instead of going with their "hearts", they can see that Rodriguez is mentioned on the same league as the great Johnny Bench. MOST "experts" are aware that he is even much better than Johnny Bench, including this non-expert. There's not doubt in my mind that if Rodriguez was a Sucks player, you would not see any wrongs on him eaither.
Next thing you will tell me is that Jim Rice, since he was a Sucks player, was better than Hank Aaron.
Please, let's not talk about contracts since we all know that a few seasons ago, Rodriguez was making almost 10m a season and now, if I am not mistaken, he makes about the same as Varitek.
I must tell you that I know, big time, that Varitek is a good catcher, but the facts are there that Rodriguez is better.
And btw, even if Varitek were to play for my beloved Yankees, I would still think that Rodriguez is better. I do take my "Yankees blinders" every now and them.
If you think that I don't respect your opinion, you are wrong, I just refuse to debate something with someone that can not see anything other than "Sucks Red".
I just don't want to waste my time anymore since the baseball fan in me said everything that I wanted to say about Varitek and Rodriguez, the best catcher that have ever lived.
Trina:
Do you mean the "Molina" brothers?.
and
What's a "marco"?. is it the same as "maricon"?, excuse my French!.
I give you "batting average" showing you what even a blind person can see, that Rodriguez is better, I show you that baseball "experts" have given Rodriguez 11 Gold Gloves compared to 1 to Varitek and you are still making excuses.Cleef said:
You got it, Varitek is much better than Rodriguez. Rodriguez can not even carry Varitek's dirty socks.
Worse than debating politics with someone is debating who's better in baseball when one of the debaters see things one way and is so blinded for a team that NO player in that team can do no wrong.
Let me make you aware that I am NOT a big Ivan Rodriguez fan but I give credit where credit is do and if people go to the stats, instead of going with their "hearts", they can see that Rodriguez is mentioned on the same league as the great Johnny Bench. MOST "experts" are aware that he is even much better than Johnny Bench, including this non-expert. There's not doubt in my mind that if Rodriguez was a Sucks player, you would not see any wrongs on him eaither.
Next thing you will tell me is that Jim Rice, since he was a Sucks player, was better than Hank Aaron.
Please, let's not talk about contracts since we all know that a few seasons ago, Rodriguez was making almost 10m a season and now, if I am not mistaken, he makes about the same as Varitek.
I must tell you that I know, big time, that Varitek is a good catcher, but the facts are there that Rodriguez is better.
And btw, even if Varitek were to play for my beloved Yankees, I would still think that Rodriguez is better. I do take my "Yankees blinders" every now and them.
If you think that I don't respect your opinion, you are wrong, I just refuse to debate something with someone that can not see anything other than "Sucks Red".
I just don't want to waste my time anymore since the baseball fan in me said everything that I wanted to say about Varitek and Rodriguez, the best catcher that have ever lived.
Trina:
Do you mean the "Molina" brothers?.
and
What's a "marco"?. is it the same as "maricon"?, excuse my French!.
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miguel said:
You see, Migs, Cleef KNEW you'd see his point of view. :cheeky:
Cleef's calling in life is to make people think outside the box. You have to admit, he talks a good game. He has a talent with words that few people can match, and even when I am strongly convicted about a player or an action, if Cleef and I differ, he always makes me think a bit about my own choice. What can I say? I'm fickle. It is my God-given right as a woman to change my mind, a lot. :cheeky: At the end of this argument, I still won't give Varitek best catcher, not by any means. But I won't be quite as critical of him, either.
Cleef Your Argument on IR Lacks...
The one thing you left out of your argument for Varitek...
You'll have to wait. Let me first say that I loved the discussion between you and Miguel and the facts you throw out concerning IRod and ESPN highlights and Varitek's year last year and the GG win. Miguel is absolutely right about IRod's numbers and they do count a ton towards how your team does and how much fans like you. In fact, it was I-Rod who played probably the biggest role in the Marlins winning their most recent World Series. He kept the pitchers in the game, threatened base runners and worked magic with his bat.
The one reason I will say I'd take Varitek (if I'm starting a team) over IRod is not just because of IRod's injuries in the past but because of something that has not been mentioned here. I don't want to mention it either. I'll just say, that IRod came in real skinny last year. Did you notice that nobody calls him pudge anymore?
Cleef said:
The one thing you left out of your argument for Varitek...
You'll have to wait. Let me first say that I loved the discussion between you and Miguel and the facts you throw out concerning IRod and ESPN highlights and Varitek's year last year and the GG win. Miguel is absolutely right about IRod's numbers and they do count a ton towards how your team does and how much fans like you. In fact, it was I-Rod who played probably the biggest role in the Marlins winning their most recent World Series. He kept the pitchers in the game, threatened base runners and worked magic with his bat.
The one reason I will say I'd take Varitek (if I'm starting a team) over IRod is not just because of IRod's injuries in the past but because of something that has not been mentioned here. I don't want to mention it either. I'll just say, that IRod came in real skinny last year. Did you notice that nobody calls him pudge anymore?
Of course
He hit so many warning track shots last year it was pathetic. Being a fantasy baseball follower - and finally getting him on my team last year - it was painful to witness.
He's a great player, but the HGH (human growth hormone) explains his power and ability to recover as quickly as he does. The beating a catcher takes is immense. I have two knees that sound like someone is stepping on a bag of popcorn every time I bend them.
That's a great point, and it's quite obvious he's been a juicer.DRPAWA said:
He hit so many warning track shots last year it was pathetic. Being a fantasy baseball follower - and finally getting him on my team last year - it was painful to witness.
He's a great player, but the HGH (human growth hormone) explains his power and ability to recover as quickly as he does. The beating a catcher takes is immense. I have two knees that sound like someone is stepping on a bag of popcorn every time I bend them.
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