Haitian roundup

[NALs]

The problem with Haiti is not just that they do a very poor job at documenting their people in Haiti (forget about it for paperless Haitians outside of Haiti); but (and this is what causes much displeasure among Dominicans) if a paperless Haitian crosses the border into the DR and he's taken to the border by DR immigration (or out of his own will), Haitian border authorities are instructed to not accept when someone claims to be Haitian of they can't prove it with Haitian identity papers/cards.

The person could had crossed yesterday, looks like the average Haitian with the cheekbones and everything that gives many Haitians a distinct look, not speak a word of Spanish but naturally speaks Haitian Creole. Due to his lack of Haitian papers, Haitian border authorities will deny him entry into Haiti under the premise that to the Haitian government he's not a Haitian. 

Something tells me that the Haitian authorities don't do this with paperless Haitians deported from say the USA.


Hmmm, what's a nice way of Haitianizing a neighboring country that countless Haitian leaders for centuries coveted?  :think:

 

[AlterEgo]

5000+ Haitians deported in Dajabon area over past 4 days

http://www.elcaribe.com.do/2017/07/...-indocumentados-detenidos-cuatro-dias-dajabon

 

[rogerramjet1]

Many have only know DR and have never lived in Haiti. Decisions made over 200 years ago are still having an impacts on daily lives, through no fault of the people impacted. Another challenge is that the employers are reluctant to provide papers to a cheap source of labor, because that gives them rights.

So what? That's the crap logic put forward by a number of other cultures as well. What matters is how it stands TODAY i.e who runs the country, who can vote, does the country legally belong to its people etc etc. As far as I can see a bunch of latinos and seriously hot Latinas own, run, and enjoy this wonderful country. They make the rules, and as I am often prone to saying, given I am Australian; "if you don't like it...f@#k the hell off" This applies to me as well

 

[Buzz65]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

 

[bob saunders]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

I think the relationship would be determined by Dominicans and Haitians not others.

 

[AlterEgo]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

Discussion about race is taboo on DR1. 

 

[Riva_31]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

If you know the history you should say we are just neiborghs not brothers and sisters. And I would say also that as neiborghs we should have better relationship.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

Totally agree with you, they could have all the tools to develope their country just the way we did, giving documents to every citizent, have publics hospitals like we do even they doesnt run very well but at least we have it, and public schools.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

Im glad that you could had that experience, and not talking like fanatics about this problems.

 

[Quisqueya]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

This has less to do with race rather an influx of my countrymen from the lowest strata of Haitian society looking for a better life than in Haiti.  The DR government has made countless effort to provide a path of legalization to undocumented Haitians.  Unfortunately, many didn't finalize their status due to administrative difficulties in Haiti and others were confronted with incompetent administration officials in the DR.  

Now who do we blame.  Unfortunately, the core responsibility and lack of providing Haitians proper documentation is the incompetent Haitian administration who also exploited this plan for their own profit. Now, the DR is slowly deporting Haitians and as a Haitian national see no problem with their actions.  All I can ask is to please respect their human rights and treat them with dignity while transferring them home.

It is time for Haiti to take care of it's citizens. Dominican Republic is not responsible for Haiti's problem not a scapegoat.  We can discuss how racist and how xenophobic they are but at the end of the day it's their country and one would be foolish to not see the influx of immigrants who are looking  for a better life.  But one has to abide by their immigration rules.  And if gringos aren't happy let us extend TPS  and allow us to migrate to USA.

 

[CristoRey]

This has less to do with race rather an influx of my countrymen from the lowest strata of Haitian society looking for a better life than in Haiti.  The DR government has made countless effort to provide a path of legalization to undocumented Haitians.  Unfortunately, many didn't finalize their status due to administrative difficulties in Haiti and others were confronted with incompetent administration officials in the DR.  

Now who do we blame.  Unfortunately, the core responsibility and lack of providing Haitians proper documentation is the incompetent Haitian administration who also exploited this plan for their own profit. Now, the DR is slowly deporting Haitians and as a Haitian national see no problem with their actions.  All I can ask is to please respect their human rights and treat them with dignity while transferring them home.

It is time for Haiti to take care of it's citizens. Dominican Republic is not responsible for Haiti's problem not a scapegoat.  We can discuss how racist and how xenophobic they are but at the end of the day it's their country and one would be foolish to not see the influx of immigrants who are looking  for a better life.  But one has to abide by their immigration rules.  And if gringos aren't happy let us extend TPS  and allow us to migrate to USA.

I could not agree with you more. As I have said several times during these discussions..
Haiti's problems need to be solved by Haitian people on Haitian soil.

 

[USA DOC]

The age old question: Melting pot or salad bowl?

Having worked in Haiti for 8 years now and traveled to DR many times, and I'm not a racist, but a lot of Doms are black. Where do you think that came from?

Haiti and DR have long history together and are more like brother and sister, not distant cousins.

I just wish Haiti would get their sheet together and become a tourist competitor on the island.

I'm glad to have experienced the beauty of both republics.

...Become a tourist competitor?.....from what I remember they had tourism back in the 1970s , when friends of mine vacationed in haiti.....where would you put the tourists today?......

 

[AlterEgo]

...Become a tourist competitor?.....from what I remember they had tourism back in the 1970s , when friends of mine vacationed in haiti.....where would you put the tourists today?......

Agreed, I went there several times in the mid to late 70s, lovely hotels. I stayed at the Royal Haitian Hotel each time. First time I went with a cousin to meet the cruise ship that Mr. AE was working on, but after that I travelled there alone and never felt unsafe. The company I worked for in Manhattan had a factory there, making woven wood window shades with Haitian cotton.

Things are very different today.

 

[Retire]

Took a country cruise today . In Sabaneta , just after turning off of 5 and onto 21 , A roadblock . They asked if I had any guns ! I went through Santiago and through Puerto Plata . In front of Playa Dorada , another roadblock , same question , guns . I haven't been asked this before , especially twice same day .Are the really looking for guns ? By asking if you have one ?

 

[Russell]

I had a Haitian working part time for me. He approached me to help pay for his passport, I did so. He now has an ID card and is legal in DR. SO the system does work... just overwhelming numbers.
Russell

 

[windeguy]

Took a country cruise today . In Sabaneta , just after turning off of 5 and onto 21 , A roadblock . They asked if I had any guns ! I went through Santiago and through Puerto Plata . In front of Playa Dorada , another roadblock , same question , guns . I haven't been asked this before , especially twice same day .Are the really looking for guns ? By asking if you have one ?

Yes, they really do checks for guns from time to time.

Now back to Haitian roundups.

 

[suavena]

Yes, they really do checks for guns from time to time.

Now back to Haitian roundups.

This roundups will not be necessary if Balaguer was still alive and leading the country when there was an immigration policy in place. Balaguer was talking about this problem back in the 80's but Dominicans leadership after him chose to ignored the issues. Now we are at a point of no return. Liberals government leniency toward illegal immigration let to this debacle who within decade could potentially absolve the country. Balaguer understood this Haitian problem better than anybody and pointed the finger at the foreign agents. Listening to this man talking about this same issue 27 years ago where he predicted this problem is really remarkable.


[video=youtube;rEO42SSzI1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEO42SSzI1I[/video]

 

[suavena]

[video=youtube;dLZxI3ryYoA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLZxI3ryYoA[/video]

 

[ju10prd]

Took a country cruise today . In Sabaneta , just after turning off of 5 and onto 21 , A roadblock . They asked if I had any guns ! I went through Santiago and through Puerto Plata . In front of Playa Dorada , another roadblock , same question , guns . I haven't been asked this before , especially twice same day .Are the really looking for guns ? By asking if you have one ?

Yes.

I am travelling a lot these days and have been stopped three times in last couple of weeks. Entering Moca and at the military post between Jamao and Victor.

The questions were: do you have a gun and can I see your ID. Didn't ask for driving license, insurance etc. but why would that interest the military?

Straight forward answers and show cedular and on the way quickly and no propina asked nor given.

DGM and military seem to be all over the Cibao right now and I see them all the time.

 

[NALs]

This roundups will not be necessary if Balaguer was still alive and leading the country when there was an immigration policy in place. Balaguer was talking about this problem back in the 80's but Dominicans leadership after him chose to ignored the issues. Now we are at a point of no return. Liberals government leniency toward illegal immigration let to this debacle who within decade could potentially absolve the country. Balaguer understood this Haitian problem better than anybody and pointed the finger at the foreign agents. Listening to this man talking about this same issue 27 years ago where he predicted this problem is really remarkable.


[video=youtube;rEO42SSzI1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEO42SSzI1I[/video]

Balaguer was an intellectual and read a lot. He became aware of the situation by what others had written before him, which added to what his eyes were seeing as the years pass made it a very obvious problem.

With that said, back in 1911 Spanish writer and intellectual Marcelino Menéndez y Pelayo wrote about the vicissitudes of Dominican people in his book of the history of poetry in the Spanish American world. He also saw what was written on the wall.

My translation:

No one can expect standards of taste on an emerging literature that has been formed in such adverse conditions. What should remain from this only time will tell; but, what will remain for sure and positively is the memorable example of a handful of peoples of Spanish blood. Since the XVII century they were forgotten by their metropolis, except for late and inappropriate reinvindications. They had to coexist and fight, first, against elements that threatened their language, then against dividing elements that were against the European race and civilization. They were impoverished and demised by earthquakes, fires, devastation; and massacres. They were handled over to the rapacity of the pirates, of the filibusters, and of the blacks. They were sold and given over by the diplomacy as if they were nothing more than a herd of cattle. Oppressed by an unbearable leadership and victims of a perennial anarchy. They resisted all the tests, they continue to speak Spanish, they have constituted a defined people and culture. They found, within the very hard conditions of their lives, some respite for the ideal, and sooner or later they had their own poets. The past is the foundation of the future, but today dark clouds are forming over Santo Domingo and the future of our people is the least certain there than in any other part of Spanish America.

He mentions the French where he says 'elements that threatened their language' and where he mentions 'the pirates, the filibusters.'

Then he refers to the Haitians where he says 'dividing elements that were against the European race and civilization.' He also refers to the Haitians again where he mentions 'massacres' the Dominican people were subjected to. And again where he metions 'the blacks.' At the end he mentions the uncertain future for the survival of the Dominican people given the duality of the island and the demographic expansion that threatens to engulf and absorb the entire Dominican people, in effect diluting an entire people into oblivion forever.

 

[NALs]

Basically, the threat to the survival of the Dominican people has always been the French, whether white (French) or black (Haitians). The problems of Spanish/Dominican survivability always stems from the west.

 

[Tarheel]

All I can say to this thread is it makes me sad. I understand that the DR has a right to protect its borders and control immigration policies but to say it's a black and white issue is not objective. I have been traveling to the DR since 1978 and our first plant was in the free zone of San Pedro de Macoris. The workers and the population was primarily Haitians. When they first came to the DR their motive was to harvest the sugar cane (a job that Gulf & Western found was repugnant to Dominicans). Their still here and not an insignificant percentage have never been or lived in Haiti. Anyone with a heart should feel for these people.