The Level of Education!

cobraboy

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Cobraboy;
Corporate welfare is a term used to insult corporations who are very wealthy and yet get subsidised by the government. An example would be tax breaks. Some polititions beleive that by favouring the wealthy corporations that they will cause what is knowen as a "trickle Down effect", meaning that they will give more wages to their employees if they are accumilating too much wealth that they don't know what else to with.(LOL). Mr Tommy Douglas, a great canadian political figure first coined the term
candice, corporations do not pay taxes. I have had several corporations, and worked as an executive in several others.

They don't pay taxes.

I remember something my father said: "A poor man never gave me a job."

You can say bad things all you want about corporations and the people who run them, but the creation of wealth is what creates jobs for people, and the destruction of wealth is what destroys jobs.

Even in the DR, poor people do not create jobs, the "rich", the risk-takers and corporations do. Poor people CAN create wealth, however, IF they apply the dillligence, dedication, maturity and delayed gratification I mentioned before.

BTW-your definition made me chuckle. You need some of that edumacation you write about. Trashing wealth and eeeeeeeevil corporations may make you feel good, but it is counter productive. They ALWAYS know what to do with their resources. They usually plan for it's creation and utilization years in advance, just like you plan about what you'd do if you hit the lottery.

Even Canada is turning away from it's socialist past created by the likes of Tommy Douglas. Unvarnished idealism is not an effective long-term weapon against solid economic theory and the nature of men.
 

J D Sauser

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I am sorry this is my opinion but in a "democracy" corruption starts within the people. So how would you expect the elected to be much better than those who voted them in, in the hopes that they would gain something from it?
Yes, it does a lot to have to do with the lack of education and foresight and those elected go to great lengths to make sure this stays so.

... J-D.
 

Chris

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What happened to the education thread?

Yes, indeed. What happened? Reading this thread, it seems to me the ones that complain about 'bashing', are the ones that consistently refuse to understand the focus of this board. They complain if posts get deleted while there is not one iota of Dominican content in the writings.
 

cobraboy

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Yes, indeed. What happened? Reading this thread, it seems to me the ones that complain about 'bashing', are the ones that consistently refuse to understand the focus of this board. They complain if posts get deleted while there is not one iota of Dominican content in the writings.
Not one iota Chris?

You sure?
 

cobraboy

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Hmmm, first to respond. Are you feeling guilty? lol;)
Nope.

But I HAVE read the entire thread, and I WAS the one to comment about America bashing, so it's logical to assume the comment was directed toward me (perhaps Chris can correct me if I'm wrong).

I simply disaagree with Chris' assessmant of the totality of this thread. There are PLENTY of non-CB posts on this thread that have NOTHING to do with the DR, but PLENTY to do the cultural/social/economic/political ramifications of education. When a Mod posts, it's hard to determine if their post is from the perspective of a Mod, or the perspective of a poster with an opinion or comment.

:classic:

Carry on...;)
 

A.Hidalgo

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Back on topic. The following is about a program called "Entra 21" by the USAID. Its focus is on youths who are not enrolled in school nor able to find jobs. This assistance is from outside the Dominican Republic, but it proves that when monies are spent correctly and disbursed to the targeted population the outcome is positive for the society in general.

Purpose of Initiative
More than half the population in Latin American and the Caribbean is under the age of 25 and as many as two-thirds of those young people (ages 15-24) are neither enrolled in school nor able to find jobs. Even those who are able to afford an education are too often unprepared to compete for skilled jobs in the global marketplace. In contrast, the demand for a workforce skilled in information and communications technology (ICT) is strong in the region. The entra 21 Alliance endeavors to bridge the gap by offering ICT training for young people who lack the education and skills necessary to get and hold a good job.

According to the USAID the success rates are impressive.

A training course in the Dominican Republic reached 450 youth and placed nearly 100% in internships.

I'm speculating that Dominicans who received this technical training in computers were probably motivated enough to continue their education to higher levels.

Sustainable Development Partnerships
 

Chris

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When a Mod posts, it's hard to determine if their post is from the perspective of a Mod, or the perspective of a poster with an opinion or comment.

:classic:

Carry on...;)

I always have opinions.

Thanks A.Hidalgo, you're bringing it back on track.

My opinion is that it is unfair to compare education in the DR to education in developed countries. It is better to compare it to similar countries, in similar circumstances. Reason for this opinion is that there is very little money and few correct resources going to education in the DR, and in the developed countries, expenditure and resources for education is differently employed so that education of some or other sort, is attainable for the 'person in the street', so to speak. In the DR good education is not easily attainable for the masses. To compare education in the DR to developed countries, is truly an apple and pear comparison as the playing field is not level.

I worked in a very limited way with some adult education issues in a small community. It was an eye opener. Over 80% of the adults were/are illiterate, i.e., could not read or write.

Two things became clear to me. Firstly, the adults in this community wanted their children to be educated. But there was no clear understanding of how to accomplish this. They did not understand that they had to send their children to school, turn off the television and provide books and materials. The concept of education remained on a par with the concept of say... becoming rich! Yes, we want that, sure, but there is no ability to make it so. The concept of education remained in the realm of dreams and not in the realm of an attainable actuality.

Secondly, during this time, one of the community members completed her degree. She became a lawyer. In working together, she could not write one sentence correctly from beginning to end. In helping me draw up documentation and paperwork for this community, she had no sense of how to use a computer, and the task became laborious as the sentences did not flow, every correction had to be made on the spot and nothing came out correctly. It was like watching a 1st grader lick the pencil, then lick the eraser and laboriously erasing the one wrong letter, and laboriously fixing the one wrong letter. It took us about 6 hours to write 3 paragraphs.

The experience reminded me very much of the 3rd world country in which I grew up. I was the fortunate, where I could work toward an education. I was in the perhaps 5% of people in the country. The 95% had to overcome severe systemic problems to get close to an education. It has not changed much.

With such a tremendous backlog in getting people educated, seems to me a country such as the DR should be putting some serious programs in place to educate their constituents, both adults, as well as kids. We see some attempts by the current administration to do this, mainly in the area of technology. But this is so little, and so late.

In comparison with the DR, a poster on this thread mentioned that the Cuban population is literate and this did not help them much. They are exporting education and the adult education methodology that a researcher in Cuba came up with is being used right across Latin and South America for adult education. (I am not commenting on politics, I am commenting on a good adult education program!)

I do think in the DR a program such as this as a starting place to develop the ability of adults to make the decision to educate their kids with a real knowledge of what it takes, could be excellent. The program is called [SIZE=-1]?Yo S? Puedo?

Education, the ability to read, the ability to write, the ability to educate one's children, the ability to critically understand the social issues of the country will make change in the DR. I think it is the only thing that will propel the country into a democracy of some form.

Are your questions now answered Cobraboy? The question about talking about education in the DR as opposed to social factors somewhere else?
[/SIZE]
 

cobraboy

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Are your questions now answered Cobraboy? The question about talking about education in the DR as opposed to social factors somewhere else?
What questions? About the Mod/poster thingy? :)

A simple search will show you I am a HUGE advocate of edumacation. And I agree, based on my experiences in the DR, it cannot be compared to the developed First World. The resources just aren't there. And the needs are different.

Developed nations pretty much have the reading, writing, arithmetic thing down; it's then a personal choice whether students and families choose to access the available resources.

Developing/Third World nations have neither the resources, nor do families and the individual see the "payoff" education brings. Call it Social Maslow Heirarchy Theory. They have other needs that supercede the need of education ("when you're up to your a$$ in alligators...). It reminds me of rural America a hundred years ago. Reading, writing and arithmetic are seen more as a luxury than a basic necessity for minimal success in life.

Once again, folks do the DR and their own country a disservice in comparing government systems. They are at different social/political/economic evolutionary phases.
 

Alyonka

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I agree - education is not just about getting a better life economically it is about becoming individual and not a vegetable or a pet who is getting fed all kinds of BS and is being sent to churt to prey God to make sure he/she doesn't look around to see how many things are being done wrong to them and the land where they live. Because any foreigner who comes and spends some time in the DR understands why things are the way they are within a couple of days of the first visit and Dominicans are being fed lies and BS and taken advantage of by people who are not really that smart themselves and are actually being manipulated by someone else without even understanding what this is all about. It is like government using religion and vodka in Russia before revolution happened - when people are drunk and stupid of course they cannot understand anything and will not even think about changing their lives.
 

dv8

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and after the revolution there was no church but a lot more vodka and people remained just as stupid...

there is so many things that are fundamentally wrong in this country we could really dig ad infinitum to find why things are wrong. government not providing education is one thing, but people do not respect education either. how many dominican barrio girls say: "i want my son to be a doctor"? not too many. they want their sons to be baseball players (or whatever sport people play in DR) - muscly morons who know how to use the ball but little on how to use their brains....

people do not admire this one off boy from a finca who went to university and is now a teacher, they admire chopo with a gun and some shady business that provides jeepetas and putas....

and if you want - you really can get decent education. i know of reach people who paid university fees to maid's kids or a shoeshine boy and who are now lawyers/doctors and such. and not all were necessarily smart, some were plain hardworking and determined.
 

cobraboy

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people do not admire this one off boy from a finca who went to university and is now a teacher, they admire chopo with a gun and some shady business that provides jeepetas and putas....

and if you want - you really can get decent education. i know of reach people who paid university fees to maid's kids or a shoeshine boy and who are now lawyers/doctors and such. and not all were necessarily smart, some were plain hardworking and determined.
Two truths you outlined, Dorota:

1) Education in the DR is not highly valued by those who need it the most, something virtually ALL lower classes in the world unfortunately share

~and~

2) It takes work and determination to get it...anywhere, even the US.
 

Texas Bill

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Weak latin-american countries tied to the tit of the US dollar is what US foreign policy is all about. America will NEVER let things in the DR get so out of hand that healthcare and education will be improved.

Believe me when I tell you that americans have no concept of the responsibility that comes with living in a democracy. If we did we(and the rest of the world) would'nt be suffering this idiot we have now for a president.

If you follow political science at all you will see that we are nothing but a fiefdom for large corporations to thrive while for the rest its' dog-eat-dog.

Just because we live better than the average dominican here in the states does'nt mean we're free of governent-sanctioned corruption and corporate greed.

Personally, I think you are just a little bit bent out of shape over the fact that the USA doesn't ante-up and relieve the DR of its indebtedness.
If you would please take a look at the number of 'charity" organizations operating in the DR that are funded by the Americans you so vitrolically castigate, you will find that they far outnumber those funded by Dominicans. And the Catholic Church, that staunch supporter of "human rights and compassion" is at the bottom of the list. They do very little except talk about what should be done to alleviate the suffering of the Dominican people.
I'm not against the Catholic Church, but I am against the gross hypocracy imminating from the heads of that organization in this country and the USA.

Texas Bill
 

dv8

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i think gringos here often underestimate generosity od dominicans. all orphanages and old people houses in POP are privately sponsored. i am not taking about pens and paper but about food, clothes, electricity bills.
i know of rich dominicans who would not part with a penny towards poor but who would deliver rice and meat to insitutions.
there are some cheap eateries in POP where you can have a huge plate of food for 10 pesos. and who sponsors that? dominican companies along with some individuals...

is not church and government to be blamed for poor education. this is people and their mentality. there will be no sudden change, it is going to take a generation - at least - to change this. and no, i am not doing a "primitive dominicans" stream of complaints. it happens elswhere too... wherever the idol/authority is pretty-faced but dumb blond actress or oversized sportsman - there is little interest towards education....
 

Chris

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Personally, I think you are just a little bit bent out of shape over the fact that the USA doesn't ante-up and relieve the DR of its indebtedness.

And thank heavens for that!

I think our resident expert Chirimoya did some research a while ago and found that the Europeans by far exceed the good old Yanks (and those south of the Maxon Dixon line a.k.a. Southerners) in charitable contributions.

Seriously, debt forgiveness is a bad thing in my book. Assistance with the ability to pay back the debt is a better thing.

Education is the best thing!

Nice to see you around Texas Bill!
 

Texas Bill

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And thank heavens for that!

I think our resident expert Chirimoya did some research a while ago and found that the Europeans by far exceed the good old Yanks (and those south of the Maxon Dixon line a.k.a. Southerners) in charitable contributions.

Seriously, debt forgiveness is a bad thing in my book. Assistance with the ability to pay back the debt is a better thing.

Education is the best thing!

Nice to see you around Texas Bill!

Glad to still be around after 80 years of past experiences, which I sincerely try to express on this board.
I know I'm not a "know it all" and try not to convey that image here and elsewhere, but some of thenon-sensical, BS inuendos really get my dander up.
Americans ( I'm refering to the USA types here ) aren't really a bad bunch of people when you get right down to it. We ae, on the other hand, very unforgiving of those who pander on one hand and spew forth ideological nonsense on the other, especially when they base their ideology on emotional fallacousness.
The hard facts are that the DR is still in the Middle Ages educationally and there is not very much anyone can do about it during this generation. It has taken this country over 500 years to arrive at the political, economic and social stature it is in today. With that as background and the fact that most Dominicans really don't understand the value of obtaining a good education, we find that we're in a quandry when we try to enlighten the masses on the problems of acquiring an education which will eventually give them all the "leg up" that they seek through other means ( cronyism, etc ) from their political appointees and those elected to office.
They're not educated enough to ralize that the "status quo" is nothing more than a stalemate in progress for society as a whole.
Most Dominican kids today are more interested in the lyrics of the latest "hip-hop" songs than they are in their future and that is a sad commentary on both the government and the society as a whole.
I just get very discouraged over this whole "education conundrum" and wish fervently that SOMETHING or SOMEONE could snap their fingers and solve the problem.
That ain't gonna happen, so I'll keep blasting the system and gouging the guvment to get off their (explitive) and start thinking about what shape will the country be in 50 years from now.
I sincerely hope this younger generation gets off their collective rumps and decides to make something of themselves, else this society will go the same way as Africa has. Too many people looking for a handout without realizing that the handout must be paid for in some fashion or another. It ain't "manna from Heaven" and never will be.

Texas Bill
 

Don Juan

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You said it, Mr. Bill. I, for one, am glad you're part of "us". We're all in this mess together, Dominicans and Expats alike, and we can only augment the intensity and clarity of our discussions in finding solutions due to the diversity and (sometimes), adversary opinions of our group as a whole.
Thank you for telling it like it is......!
 

something_of_the_night

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We ae, on the other hand, very unforgiving of those who pander on one hand and spew forth ideological nonsense on the other, especially when they base their ideology on emotional fallacousness.
Texas Bill

Mr T-Bill, you quoted a post which mentioned Chiri, then you wrote the above.

The Kid ain't messing with you, but I if didn't know better, your post would give the impression that you were criticizing Chiri, when in fact I know you didn't, since I've been reading your posts for a long time. Newer members may not have had that luxury, and may "misunderinterpratate" your post above.

Regards,
-Joseito
 

Texas Bill

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Mr T-Bill, you quoted a post which mentioned Chiri, then you wrote the above.

The Kid ain't messing with you, but I if didn't know better, your post would give the impression that you were criticizing Chiri, when in fact I know you didn't, since I've been reading your posts for a long time. Newer members may not have had that luxury, and may "misunderinterpratate" your post above.

Regards,
-Joseito

Joseito:

Thank you for pointing out that I posted, seemingly in contradiction to Chiri's post.
I wish to add that my post was NOT intended as such. Chiri an the posts made by that person were furtherist from my mind when I wrote what I did.
Chiri, if you have the opinion that I as directing my words at you, please accept that I wasn't, in any way, refering to you.
Thanks again, Joseito, for pointing this out to me.
When I answer directly to another's posts, they usually know to whom the post is directed and the reasons.

Texas Bill
 
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