Bio-Ethical Questions

[william webster]

That's staggering

It's not the vaccine..... it's the smart virus

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

That's staggering

It's not the vaccine..... it's the smart virus

It'd better be smart, they certainly spent a lot of money on it!

 

[windeguy]

No Windy - not the gov't deciding.... the medical community is wondering about it, specifically the doctor facing with the problem.
Not all will react/decide the same way.

How do you feel they should react?
How would you react?

We know hospitals fill up - here, there & everywhere- with CV19....
What happens when a 'serious' medical case arrives (say it's YOU arriving)....
you gonna be happy waiting behind a group of unvaxed ?

Doctors already have a protocol for two very ill patients rec'ving simultaneous treatment -
the one with the longer life prospect gets treated 1st (that's in the article)

This can be a problem in the DR, anywhere.

Not political whatsoever.... totally ethical and applicable worldwide

A doctor willfully failing or refusing to treat a patient would be dealt with by the laws in each country.
Of course when nothing can be done because of limited supplies priorities are made and as you point out there is nothing new about
that and very little more to discuss in that event.

 

[windeguy]

I assume doctors everywhere must take the Hippocratic oath derived from Greece ?
So there should be no doubt that they should not bar treatment.
It is only because of politics that they have been shaped, threatened, literally had financial cudgels hung over their heads, denied hospital access or had licenses threatened that they would come to any other conclusion that to administer to the sick.

The World will look back soon to regret many actions taken in this scamdemic

The Hippocratic Oath (Modern Version)​

I SWEAR in the presence of the Almighty and before my family, my teachers and my peers that according to my ability and judgment I will keep this Oath and Stipulation.
TO RECKON all who have taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents and in the same spirit and dedication to impart a knowledge of the art of medicine to others. I will continue with diligence to keep abreast of advances in medicine. I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient.
I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous. I will neither prescribe nor administer a lethal dose of medicine to any patient even if asked nor counsel any such thing nor perform the utmost respect for every human life from fertilization to natural death and reject abortion that deliberately takes a unique human life.
WITH PURITY, HOLINESS AND BENEFICENCE I will pass my life and practice my art. Except for the prudent correction of an imminent danger, I will neither treat any patient nor carry out any research on any human being without the valid informed consent of the subject or the appropriate legal protector thereof, understanding that research must have as its purpose the furtherance of the health of that individual. Into whatever patient setting I enter, I will go for the benefit of the sick and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief or corruption and further from the seduction of any patient.
WHATEVER IN CONNECTION with my professional practice or not in connection with it I may see or hear in the lives of my patients which ought not be spoken abroad, I will not divulge, reckoning that all such should be kept secret. WHILE I CONTINUE to keep this Oath unviolated may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art and science of medicine with the blessing of the Almighty and respected by my peers and society, but should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse by my lot.

Not all doctors take any "oath" at all, let alone this one.

 

[windeguy]

Simple.

People with money/power, vaccinated or un-vaccinated, will have preference.

That is the way it works in the DR............and how it has worked............long before Covid.

The discussion is BIO-ETHICS............as in moral principles..............the number one/two "moral" principles in the DR being.............money/power=privilege.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

Correct. This is how it almost always works with few exceptions.

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

Not all doctors take any "oath" at all, let alone this one.

True. And there are places that practice beheadings and marriage of 9 year old girls. Ain't ethics grand!

 

[windeguy]

You are incorrect my angry brother. A hospital can't practice one set of medical ethics for one demographic and one for another. All patients must be triaged in the same fashion, with the same set of ethical standards. NSP's point is 100% valid.

Hugs!

See how that works in private hospitals in the DR when you have no insurance or money to pay for treatment.
Those with money/insurance will push aside those do don't.

And in my home country, ER's will treat you in the emergency room, but are not required to continue treatment and can
certainly refuse treatment if a patient has no means to pay for it.

 

[windeguy]

Respectfully,
a hospital can practice as it pleases....
personal decisions by the medical staff can swing either direction

I hope you read the article - it lays out both sides, as I read it

I found it an interesting ethical and sociological commentary, much like the two-tiered society thinking but unmandated -not regulated.

There are no dictated boundaries for these decisions - other than the Hippocratic oath....
which some professionals may challenge at this point.... or at least differ with

The oath is irrelevant since it is not universal.

 

[windeguy]

Something on the order of 98% of people sick enough to be hospitalized with Covid symptoms are unvaccinated.
It matters because by being vaccinated one can avoid both hospitalization and death from this disease as well as not needlessly clogging up hospitals.

People have an obligation to act in the best interest of society as a whole as well as what is in their best interest. You do that by being vaccinated.

No, they don't unless the laws in a country require it. I have never lived my life for the "best interests" of society. And never will.
I live my life for my own best interests and those of my family.

 

[windeguy]

Becoming very ill and or dying from Covid is avoidable with a simple series of vaccinations.
My view is that people who die from this disease committed suicide.

You do realize that there are millions of people in the world without ready access to vaccinations.
That is one of the reasons CV19 is here, there and everywhere to stay. It all started from only one case.

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

See how that works in private hospitals in the DR when you have no insurance or money to pay for treatment.
Those with money/insurance will push aside those do don't.

And in my home country, ER's will treat you in the emergency room, but are not required to continue treatment and can
certainly refuse treatment if a patient has no means to pay for it.

You are incorrect my winded friend. Those with money are escorted to top notch facilities. I cant remember the last time i saw a range Rover parked in the Ricardo Limardo emergency lot, well unless it was a drug dealer. You're making stuff up again. These people seldom, if ever mix. Even W² mentioned this above

 

[windeguy]

You are incorrect my winded friend. Those with money are escorted to top notch facilities. I cant remember the last time i saw a range Rover parked in the Ricardo Limardo emergency lot, well unless it was a drug dealer. You're making stuff up again. These people seldom, if ever mix. Even W² mentioned this above

You said I was incorrect and then confirmed what I said. Those with money and insurance get treated in better locations. I never suggested that those two "levels", as in financial levels, of people "mixed". One cannot discuss this point as if only one level of hospital exists.

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

You said I was incorrect and then confirmed what I said. Those with money and insurance get treated in better locations. I never suggested that those two "levels", as in financial levels, of people "mixed". One cannot discuss this point as if only one level of hospital exists.

Ok, ok. Hope you're having a pleasant Sunday with you and yours.

 

[windeguy]

And then there is Israel the most vaccinated country on earth being overwhelmed.
These vaccines are causing the infection now.

Quadruple-Vaxed Israel Breaks World Record in Coronavirus Cases

Israel is the number one country in the world for new coronavirus infections per capita, with a daily rate of 0.6 percent of...

www.breitbart.com

Of course the current vaccines continue the pandemic. They don't kill the virus , but allow it to spread and mutate while mitigating the health negative effects it has on most of the vaccinated. Its "the best" we can do with today's technology.

But back to the discussion about he who as the most money not being treated because the doctor found out they were not vaccinated.
How did they find out? Hmm, they checked the government data base.

 

[windeguy]

What no one mentions in regards to the large almost exclusive number of unvaccinated people residing in hospitals around the World is the knowledge that approximately 75% of people are in fact vaccinated. So when a hospital has 90% unvaccinated and there are THREE times the amount of vaccinated people it is really hard for ANYBODY not to take notice....................

You are WAY off ! Nowhere near 75% of the world is fully vaccinated. Not even close

Only 62% of the world has received at least one dose. Fully vaccinated are closer to 50% in the world

The other 38% of course, should be put aside if they get CV19.

Tracking Coronavirus Vaccinations Around the World (Published 2023)

More than 5.55 billion people worldwide have received a Covid-19 vaccine, equal to about 72.3 percent of the world population.

www.nytimes.com

 

[windeguy]

The next debate we can have is how those with 4 vaccinations but had the last one over 6 months ago are no longer fully vaccinated
and they need more or they will be considered unvaccinated.

But wait, that is me... Right now!

And half the world is still not fully vaccinated, nor will they ever be.

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

The next debate we can have is how those with 4 vaccinations but had the last one over 6 months ago are no longer fully vaccinated
and they need more or they will be considered unvaccinated.

But wait, that is me... Right now!

And half the world is still not fully vaccinated, nor will they ever be.

You gotta follow the science. The science says Roll up yo sleeve biatch!!!

 

[windeguy]

You gotta follow the science. The science says Roll up yo sleeve biatch!!!

I won't be. But that is just me.

 

[windeguy]

Omicron. The "Ultimate" vaccine:

Early evidence suggests Omicron infection could give people 'superimmunity' against future coronavirus variants, but experts warn COVID-19 is still unpredictable

A combination of vaccination and natural infection seems to offer enhanced immunity across variants.

www.businessinsider.com

The bass player in a trio I play with just had Omicron. He was sick for a couple of days with what felt like a head cold. No fever. He flies to the DR in a couple of days.

 

[SKY]

You are WAY off ! Nowhere near 75% of the world is fully vaccinated. Not even close

Only 62% of the world has received at least one dose. Fully vaccinated are closer to 50% in the world

The other 38% of course, should be put aside if they get CV19.

Tracking Coronavirus Vaccinations Around the World (Published 2023)

More than 5.55 billion people worldwide have received a Covid-19 vaccine, equal to about 72.3 percent of the world population.

www.nytimes.com

OK so instead of 1 out of 4 people that are UNVACCINATED, we have 2 out of 5 UNVACCINATED people filling up Hospitals. I stand corrected..........................