57% of Dominicans live in poverty

[mountainannie]

Valerie Julliam


Funcionarios del PNUD se contradicen sobre informe - List?n Diario Digital
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What Miguelito fails to point the finger to, is that they used the overall undocumented population of Haitians in the DR as Dominicans, to reach the conclusions on poverty for the entire Dominican Republic. That's to say they used over a million of the poorest to walk the western hemisphere, to reach the data they meted out on poverty in the DR.

Just because they are there, doesn't mean that they are our poor!
Extreme poverty in the DR was a far little 1% pre-Haitian arrival after the Duvaliers and coups that followed in Haiti. Poverty in the DR three decades ago was Pueblo Nuevo, la Joya, etc... in Santiago. In Santo Domingo the poverty was more evident as the contrast between homes built with concrete and those built out of zinc, was hard to blur the lines between.

If the UN wants to really help the DR poverty situation in any way they can, they should start by aiding those undocumented Haitians return home to Haiti, by providing them with housing and work in their own soil. God knows we can only handle so many of them!

Thanks, Picardo, for sounding this trumpet loud and clear... and keep it up.

There are MILLIONS and more on the table now for HAITIANS. They should be spending the money that was collected for HAiti on Haitians.

Conani will not pick up the Haitian street kids because then they would have custody and responsibility for them.

It should be the UN High Commission on Refugees which has authority here, IMHO....

Angelia Jolie is their rep ... "celebrity face" and she was just in Haiti with Preval. The minister of the exterior for Haiti, Edwin Parison, is educated as an Episocal priest, here in the DR and is married to a Dominican. So is the Prime Minister, Max Bellrivel. There is no reason for any sort of nationalist animosity here, but a mutual concern for the most vulnerable among our combined population.

I do not know if there is any one yet inside the Dominican government who is speaking on this issue, but do hope that they do so very shortly.

The American Red Cross alone has $450 million to spend... One out of every two Americans donated to help Haiti in this crisis and I am sure that it would please any donor to know that the money were being used to rescue, shelter, educate and repatriate those Haitians who have come to this country as refugees.

There is a perfect opportunity here.

All those decaying hotels would make perfect boarding schools, would they not?

 

[greydread]

There are MILLIONS and more on the table now for HAITIANS. They should be spending the money that was collected for HAiti on Haitians.

Conani will not pick up the Haitian street kids because then they would have custody and responsibility for them.

It should be the UN High Commission on Refugees which has authority here, IMHO....

Angelia Jolie is their rep ... "celebrity face" and she was just in Haiti with Preval. The minister of the exterior for Haiti, Edwin Parison, is educated as an Episocal priest, here in the DR and is married to a Dominican. So is the Prime Minister, Max Bellrivel. There is no reason for any sort of nationalist animosity here, but a mutual concern for the most vulnerable among our combined population.

I do not know if there is any one yet inside the Dominican government who is speaking on this issue, but do hope that they do so very shortly.

The American Red Cross alone has $450 million to spend... One out of every two Americans donated to help Haiti in this crisis and I am sure that it would please any donor to know that the money were being used to rescue, shelter, educate and repatriate those Haitians who have come to this country as refugees.

There is a perfect opportunity here.

All those decaying hotels would make perfect boarding schools, would they not?

I just sent a link to your post to the UN.

Contact the United Nations

Maybe they'll even read it and reply on their plans to deal with this issue. Maybe they won't even read it but I would like to know their take on the subject directly rather than wait to hear about it on the news.

That last sentence was brilliant.

 

[greydread]

Doesn't fit the UN template.

The more poor and miserable countries are, the more power the UN weilds.

"Poverty Pimps"?

This issue may just force their hands.

 

[Chirimoya]

So the government didn't like the fact that it failed to stress that although the number of poor people had increased, the increase was not as great as it had been during Hippo's reign... so she responded by undermining her colleague in public. Classy.

 

[cobraboy]

So the government didn't like the fact that it failed to stress that although the number of poor people had increased, the increase was not as great as it had been during Hippo's reign... so she responded by undermining her colleague in public. Classy.

More people need to call bullspit when someone spouts bullspit.

Letting people-or organizations-get away with talking bullspit just continues or makes problems worse.

The UN has earned being called out. I doubt "forgetting" the million+ Haitians was some clerical error. They aren't that stoopid...just agenda driven.

 

[mountainannie]

Thanks for forwarding, Greydread, but the call is going to have to come from the DR government, I would think. I have not found many who think of the UN as "proactive"....great big gravy boat, really big one...

 

[greydread]

Thanks for forwarding, Greydread, but the call is going to have to come from the DR government, I would think. I have not found many who think of the UN as "proactive"....great big gravy boat, really big one...

I know. I deal with the biggest government in the World every day and I have the head bumps to prove your theory.

However

Every once in awhile you can put a good idea (like those expressed in this thread) in the ear of some ambitious, young rising star who is well connected enough and has the presentation ability to press for policy change. There are examples of this every day where the government gets something right in spite of itself because some hot shot picked a cause to champion and their superiors saw "attaboy" potential in their ideas for themselves.

I have no problem using the "contact us" button on any organization's web site. Look at it like the lottery. You've got to play to win. Even if the odds are ridiculously out of your favor it's worth a shot that somoe one will pay attention or that something is currently being done and we just don't know about it yet. These organizations do tend to only highlight their successes.

 

[Lambada]

Administrador Comedores afirma gente no tiene ni RD$5 para comer

 

[RacerX]

why not put a sin tax on beer and other alcoholic beverages and removes the ITBIS from food purchases?

 

[MikeFisher]

why not put a sin tax on beer and other alcoholic beverages and removes the ITBIS from food purchases?

good Idea,
but only for alcoholic luxuries,
b/c the cheap lil Rum Bottle is part of alimentation,
call it "the luxury of a poor Man", you can't take that away.
on Food for the Needed Tax money is sure much better spent than on Tax money to maintain a bancrupt Metro for a Few or assist Imports of Luxury Cars, who are in my opinion much too cheap here on the Isle Taxwise.
Mike

 

[mountainannie]

why not put a sin tax on beer and other alcoholic beverages and removes the ITBIS from food purchases?

I do not believe that there is an ITBIS on fresh food. Check your next receipt and you will find that only a portion of your bill is taxed.

 

[MikeFisher]

I do not believe that there is an ITBIS on fresh food. Check your next receipt and you will find that only a portion of your bill is taxed.

Poor People do not shop at La Nacional or Iberia etc anyways.
at the Colmados and at the Pick Up Delivery Trucks in Town there are no receipts and no ITBIS added.
it's a cash business, mostly solved by Fiao.
Mike

 

[PICHARDO]

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Unlike the DR (which sees imported *extreme poverty) this is something that tells you how good we have it here...

The DR will never see it out of poverty until the Haitian factor is not resolved...

 

[PeaceNik]

Are you sure of that?

Unlike the DR (which sees imported *extreme poverty) this is something that tells you how good we have it here...

The DR will never see it out of poverty until the Haitian factor is not resolved...

Are you sure that Haiti is at the center of DR's poverty problem?

Here are a few facts you can verify by a quick search on the net.

1- Haiti started spiraling totally out of control after 1986.

2- the DR was a poor country way before that.

3- Tourism is the main bread and butter of DR. Late 70's , 1980's Haiti Had a decent tourism industry. In fact more developed than the DR back then. Now, are you sure the DR would welcome a strong competitor literally next door competing for tourist dollars?

4- Granted the Haitian crisis is an added strain on DR's problems.

5- Oh, lastly by the way, Haiti is F***d up because of endless political crisis. Do a Google search and see from where the 'freedom fighters' who overthrew the legally elected President during the last political crisis came from. A hint :they crossed a border. Another hint: it was not the first time this happened.

The main source for DR poverty is the same for most underdeveloped countries. It is structural, not caused by lack of resources. The corruption is absolutely endemic. So, good luck solving the also endemic energy crisis, implementing solid educational programs etc...The haitian argument is a cope out.

 

[PICHARDO]

Are you sure that Haiti is at the center of DR's poverty problem?

Not a 100% but 99%... ( even when some believe otherwise I'm not perfect):cheeky:

Here are a few facts you can verify by a quick search on the net.

1- Haiti started spiraling totally out of control after 1986.

Haiti has never known control or stability since the first day it became Haiti on 1804!!

2- the DR was a poor country way before that.

Any country which by industrial standards didn't have tiled floors or man-made roofing was considered "poor" at the time. Not so anymore... Now is a mix of income/education/GDP/healthcare/etc...

3- Tourism is the main bread and butter of DR.

Nope! Simply not economically true!

Late 70's , 1980's Haiti Had a decent tourism industry. In fact more developed than the DR back then. Now, are you sure the DR would welcome a strong competitor literally next door competing for tourist dollars?

Late 70's, 1980's Haiti's decent tourism industry -as you called- was based on sex for hire, where the US and European gay communities made their beds. Not so strange why it was targeted so massively as the main infection point for the explosion of HIV in the US and parts of the today EU...

Name ten major hotels alone which catered to that tourism industry in Haiti and I can list you not less than three or four times as many in the DR, at the very same time/epoch/timeline...

Haiti becoming a tourist focal point would be more positive than anything else to the DR, as it would remove untold numbers of beach/street vendors to their own soil.

4- Granted the Haitian crisis is an added strain on DR's problems.

Oh! You don't say!?

5- Oh, lastly by the way, Haiti is F***d up because of endless political crisis. Do a Google search and see from where the 'freedom fighters' who overthrew the legally elected President during the last political crisis came from. A hint :they crossed a border. Another hint: it was not the first time this happened.

Oh yes! So the DR was a peace vessel all that time? We had more political/military turmoil than Haiti ever did and still made it as a nation.

As far as crossing the border: Can the US stop Mexicans/etc.. from crossing into their side ( being how they are the masters or the world today), and you really think that the DR can avoid Haitians crossing the border/using our soil to that end?? Boy oh boy! You give the CESFRONT and border guards too much credit!

The main source for DR poverty is the same for most underdeveloped countries. It is structural, not caused by lack of resources. The corruption is absolutely endemic. So, good luck solving the also endemic energy crisis, implementing solid educational programs etc...The haitian argument is a cope out.

Illusions of yours, when we have over a million of the poorest nobody wants in their shores, let alone be more than 10% of their population at any given time (without the ones born to them while being that 10%).

 

[pedrochemical]

You will get used to hearing this collectively and individually here - "it is not my fault...."

 

[PeaceNik]

Not a 100% but 99%... ( even when some believe otherwise I'm not perfect):cheeky:

Haiti has never known control or stability since the first day it became Haiti on 1804!!



Any country which by industrial standards didn't have tiled floors or man-made roofing was considered "poor" at the time. Not so anymore... Now is a mix of income/education/GDP/healthcare/etc...



Nope! Simply not economically true!



Late 70's, 1980's Haiti's decent tourism industry -as you called- was based on sex for hire, where the US and European gay communities made their beds. Not so strange why it was targeted so massively as the main infection point for the explosion of HIV in the US and parts of the today EU...

Name ten major hotels alone which catered to that tourism industry in Haiti and I can list you not less than three or four times as many in the DR, at the very same time/epoch/timeline...

Haiti becoming a tourist focal point would be more positive than anything else to the DR, as it would remove untold numbers of beach/street vendors to their own soil.



Oh! You don't say!?



Oh yes! So the DR was a peace vessel all that time? We had more political/military turmoil than Haiti ever did and still made it as a nation.

As far as crossing the border: Can the US stop Mexicans/etc.. from crossing into their side ( being how they are the masters or the world today), and you really think that the DR can avoid Haitians crossing the border/using our soil to that end?? Boy oh boy! You give the CESFRONT and border guards too much credit!


Illusions of yours, when we have over a million of the poorest nobody wants in their shores, let alone be more than 10% of their population at any given time (without the ones born to them while being that 10%).

Arguing with you is pointless. An objective, fact based intellectual exchange is useful as both sides can be enlightened a bit more. But, arguing with a man who refuses to see is obviously futile, as Solomon would probably say.

I have had the pleasure of speaking with enlightened Dominican intellectuals, probably younger than you, they were younger than me; but their insight and wisdom was humbling. I learned quite a few things about the DR from them. Keep your illusions and cherish them, because vilifying the 'dark' and poor Haitians makes you feel 'superior'. Enjoy the high…

Reality is something else. It does not care about what you or I think. There is only one set of correct facts and they always catch up with those that ignore them. They tend to bite. Hard.

Being abusive and ignorant is easy. Gathering facts, looking at them critically and contributing to the existing body of useful facts that actually make a positive difference, the job of true intellectuals, is hard work. It is easier to go around, pointing to the least fortunates or most vulnerable ones, to belittle them so that we can feel taller, i.e. 'superior'. Many choose that road. One of the best known of the bunch was Hitler. He and his cohort had quite a list of interesting ‘facts’ about the Jews.

Notice that my previous post and this one do not include any type of ad hominem abusive, in tones or otherwise; simply, because this is a very basic requirement for an intellectual exchange. The tone and content of your reply speaks for themselves and imply many things about the mind that produced them. This is hereby my last words to anything you have to post.

Best regards...

 

[cobraboy]

The main source for DR poverty is the same for most underdeveloped countries. It is structural, not caused by lack of resources. The corruption is absolutely endemic. So, good luck solving the also endemic energy crisis, implementing solid educational programs etc...The haitian argument is a cope out.

It depends on how many people those resources have to support.

It's simple math, really...

 

[cobraboy]

I have had the pleasure of speaking with enlightened Dominican intellectuals, probably younger than you, they were younger than me; but their insight and wisdom was humbling. I learned quite a few things about the DR from them. Keep your illusions and cherish them, because vilifying the 'dark' and poor Haitians makes you feel 'superior'. Enjoy the high?

You might want to know that PICHARDO IS one of those connected Dominican intellectuals...:cheeky:

 

[A.Hidalgo]

The DR will never see it out of poverty until the Haitian factor is not resolved...

Yea maybe we can start by having the Dominican government, businesses and individuals stop hiring them.