Aggressive Beach Harassment in Cabarete

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cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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DR1ers with respect to how advice is typically given are, by and large, exceptionally rude. But if you get past that "you stupid idiot" approach the real advice is golden. Put your ego in the trash bin and ask your questions...you will get a reliable (virtually bankable) response!
I think it depends on the situation.

Some come and ask a question that has been asked a bazillion times. As in any forum, DAFS...

Some come knowing what the answer is/should be. Masochists. Look at Mars/Venus.

Some come not to ask but to announce "Hey, look at me!" The responses vary.

Some come knowing it all to begin with. Caveat Emptor.

Really, it's rare when a legitimate question not in one of the above categories is asked in Good Faith. And when one is, I'd say the poster gets solid, respectful advice.
 

Tamborista

hasta la tambora
Apr 4, 2005
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I apologize. i didn't notice "standard hamburger (or i didn't know what you meant by the phrase)." Totally went over my head.:) Sorry.

Again, I apologize.

Frank

Really no need to apologize!

I heard of Standard Oil, A Standard Poodle, Standard toilet seats....even a standard tranny, but WTF is a Standard hamburger, whose standards...your standards or mine?

tambo'
 

Celt202

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May 22, 2004
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DAFS - Guess Which One Applies

I think it depends on the situation.

Some come and ask a question that has been asked a bazillion times. As in any forum, DAFS...

Diffraction Anomalous Fine Structure
Direct Access File System
Direct Aerial Fire Support
Do a F***ing Search
Damage Analysis and Fundamental Studie?
Deepwater Actively Frozen Seabed
Department of Agriculture and Fisheries of Scotland
Department of Agriculture and Forest Service
Diaminofluoresceins
Direct Assessment of Functional Status
Directorate of Agricultural Field Service
 

Ken

Rest In Peace Ken
Jan 1, 2002
13,884
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Diffraction Anomalous Fine Structure
Direct Access File System
Direct Aerial Fire Support
Do a F***ing Search
Damage Analysis and Fundamental Studie?
Deepwater Actively Frozen Seabed
Department of Agriculture and Fisheries of Scotland
Department of Agriculture and Forest Service
Diaminofluoresceins
Direct Assessment of Functional Status
Directorate of Agricultural Field Service

Do we get a prize if our guess is right?
 

Big Dan

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Feb 14, 2009
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Wow.

Frank,

Sounds like your business is doing well based upon the prices you charge, the quality of your food, and the number of tourists who fill up your restaurant on a regular basis.

But, Frank, you have more excuses than Carters has pills.

If you want to stop vendors from coming into your business, then you hire enough people to keep them out. And, you can pass on the added expense to your clientele, who is apparently willing to pay what you charge for your "stuff". If people want a hassle free experience they will gladly pay for it. You can even advertise that part of the $100 breakfast experience is a hassle free meal, except maybe you could bring up the price a little, say $125 to cover your security expenses.

Remember what Ben Franklin said:

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.

Have a nice, prosperous day, $25 at a time.
 

frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Well, i wouldn't say i'm good for much. And people who know me would certainly agree with you.

But i don't get this: "More excuses than Carter's has pills."

I'm sorry, i'm getting old and many sayings nowadays just go right over my head.:squareeye

PS. I have a personal favourite saying about people who make excuses Big Dan: "A poor workman always blames his tools!"

By the way, it's not my business, but i love working here.

Have a nice day.:squareeye

Thanks, Frank

Frank,

Sounds like your business is doing well based upon the prices you charge, the quality of your food, and the number of tourists who fill up your restaurant on a regular basis.

But, Frank, you have more excuses than Carters has pills.

If you want to stop vendors from coming into your business, then you hire enough people to keep them out. And, you can pass on the added expense to your clientele, who is apparently willing to pay what you charge for your "stuff". If people want a hassle free experience they will gladly pay for it. You can even advertise that part of the $100 breakfast experience is a hassle free meal, except maybe you could bring up the price a little, say $125 to cover your security expenses.

Remember what Ben Franklin said:

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.

Have a nice, prosperous day, $25 at a time.
 
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Big Dan

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Feb 14, 2009
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Well, i wouldn't say i'm good for much. And people who know me would certainly agree with you.

But i don't get this: "More excuses than Carter's has pills."

I'm sorry, i'm getting old and many sayings nowadays just go right over my head.:squareeye

PS. I have a personal favourite saying about people who make excuses Big Dan: "A poor workman always blames his tools!"

By the way, it's not my business, but i love working here.

Have a nice day.:squareeye

Thanks, Frank

Well, then you have absolved yourself of any responsibility since you don't own the place, so there is really no point in the thread at all, and no excuse for it either. It is an issue to take up with the owner, who knows exactly what he needs to do to stop people from bothering his clientele. I'm sure he has an excuse, too.

So, your options are to suck it up or find employment elsewhere, eh? Everything else, is, well, an excuse, or whining. I don't know which one is more appropriate.

No offense. This just isn't your issue to resolve.
 

mike l

Silver
Sep 4, 2007
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Well, i wouldn't say i'm good for much. And people who know me would certainly agree with you.

But i don't get this: "More excuses than Carter's has pills."

I'm sorry, i'm getting old and many sayings nowadays just go right over my head.:squareeye

PS. I have a personal favourite saying about people who make excuses Big Dan: "A poor workman always blames his tools!"

By the way, it's not my business, but i love working here.

Have a nice day.:squareeye

Thanks, Frank

Frank,

In the 1960"s there was a TV commercial about carters little liver pills as there were so many in one bottle.

Carter's Little Liver Pills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Big Dan,

I respectively disagree with you. However, please allow me to explain why. First, i don't absolve myself from any responsibilty (except paying my friends & family back). i'm here at this restaurant pretty much every evening, including my days off. Like all the managers here, i keep the "Aggressive beach vendors" out of our place everytime is see them walk in; this includes the shoe shine boys, beggars, jewelry salesmen, the massage girls, the hair braiders, the mentally handicapped people--of which there are numerous--including Chupa, my friends & family, and some religious fanatics. The managers here (three of us) do a very good job at keeping these people at bay, however, the religious fanatics and my family somehow have found a way to penetrate this wall of defense.

My reason for starting this thread was more as a response to another thread with almost the same title as this one, but being it was my first day, i didn't know how to find that thread so, being the idiot that i am, i started a new one with almost the same title. I apologize. for people who know me, they'll confirm the assessment that i am not very bright and i suffer from a disease that renders me clueless, but has enabled me to speak in a secret language that only autistic children and donkeys comprehend.

Another reason i started this thread was because i really do believe we--all of the restaurants on the beach here in Cabarete, have a problem with the beach vendors (Nikki beach is the only exception i've seen), and although, yes, we have the vendors trying to come into the restaurant to sell their stuff, i feel, perhaps naivelly, that we're doing a pretty good job at keeping them out, but it's time consuming. and, as i said, some days i want to pull out what little hair i have left on the top of my head because its so time consuming and energy draining keeping your eye on all these people which, may i add, number in the dozens.

Big Dan, you seem like a very intelligent man, may i ask, where in this thread did i make excuses for me or our place, other than pointing out the obvious, which was that with 28 full time employees, live entertainment, 8 satellite dishes, and every sports package available for purchase, including PPV, we have a lot more overhead than someone smaller who is operating with a staff of 8 or 9 people and no live entertainment or satellites. So again, yes, we are more expensive, but were also offering a lot more stuff, and that stuff costs a lot of money. For people who don't want to come to our place and pay more for a drink or food, i understand that completely, and i would never critisize that, nor would the owner. The managers sit down and speak to everyone here, whether their just walking thru the restaurant--on their way to some other bar, or whether they want to tell you how Christ died for your sins--and then go on for 45 minutes explaining why. i never judge anyone. but i think it's unfair to suggest that me or any other manager, is absolving ourselves from responsibility. we're doing the best we can, and were keeping the vendors out, it just that, they never, ever give up trying to come inside the restaurant. Who wouldn't get frustrated by that?

Frank

Well, then you have absolved yourself of any responsibility since you don't own the place, so there is really no point in the thread at all, and no excuse for it either. It is an issue to take up with the owner, who knows exactly what he needs to do to stop people from bothering his clientele. I'm sure he has an excuse, too.

So, your options are to suck it up or find employment elsewhere, eh? Everything else, is, well, an excuse, or whining. I don't know which one is more appropriate.

No offense. This just isn't your issue to resolve.
 
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frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Oops, i forgot one more vendor who just walked in...the man selling Viagra and vitamins to tourists. I also forgot the lottery salesman. I'm sure i'll think of more later.

Frank
 

xamaicano

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2004
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Off topic, frank12 I appreciate your posting style. You've kept it civil even when people have disagreed with you.
 

Bronxboy

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Jul 11, 2007
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Off topic, frank12 I appreciate your posting style. You've kept it civil even when people have disagreed with you.

These are the type of posters that last on this forum.

No need to ruffle feathers!!!! :)
 

Big Dan

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Feb 14, 2009
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"Big Dan, you seem like a very intelligent man, may i ask, where in this thread did i make excuses for me or our place, other than pointing out the obvious, which was that with 28 full time employees, live entertainment, 8 satellite dishes, and every sports package available for purchase, including PPV, we have a lot more overhead than someone smaller who is operating with a staff of 8 or 9 people and no live entertainment or satellites. So again, yes, we are more expensive, but were also offering a lot more stuff, and that stuff costs a lot of money. For people who don't want to come to our place and pay more for a drink or food, i understand that completely, and i would never critisize that, nor would the owner. The managers sit down and speak to everyone here, whether their just walking thru the restaurant--on their way to some other bar, or whether they want to tell you how Christ died for your sins--and then go on for 45 minutes explaining why. i never judge anyone. but i think it's unfair to suggest that me or any other manager, is absolving ourselves from responsibility. we're doing the best we can, and were keeping the vendors out, it just that, they never, ever give up trying to come inside the restaurant. Who wouldn't get frustrated by that?"

Frank,

As I went through the posts, I realized that the answer is that you need security so that you (and your staff) can do what you were hired to do. And, you said you've tried it, and it worked, but somehow you don't have security people any more. Why is that? The only excuse as to why is that someone doesn't want to pay for it.

The other options that have been mentioned but deflected .... I call these excuses.... actually, all options presented have been deflected.

This is not "someone else's" problem. The buck has to stop somewhere. You are tired of the buck stopping with you, and have come here to look for options because the actual responsible party doesn't want to do anything about it. You and your staff are all the security the owner needs.

So, logically, you, as a responsible person, have one thing to do....get security hired, and step it up in numbers of people until vendors stop coming into your restaurant. If the owner isn't willing to pay, then you will live with an exasperating situation until you finally quit.

You need to use some leverage with the owner. Hire people to shoo flies and adjust prices so that your customers have an enjoyable, uninterrupted experience.
 

mike l

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Sep 4, 2007
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Oops, i forgot one more vendor who just walked in...the man selling Viagra and vitamins to tourists. I also forgot the lottery salesman. I'm sure i'll think of more later.

Frank

The Viagra guy hit me up in the restroom last weekend but who needs those.

With 3 entrances you would need 3 armed guards with stun guns to disuade these people
 
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frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Big Dan,

I appreciate your suggestions and i agree with you that we need security and it will be nice to have him back on staff once the season kicks in. However, what would you suggest all the restaurants and bars in Cabarete do regarding the "public" beach area where all the vendors and beggars have free reign? All the restaurants, including Nikki Beach, cannot keep the vendors away from their tables on the beach, because, as i've already pointed out, the beach area is "public" space.

You mention that the "Buck" needs to stop somewhere, and i couldn't agree with that assessment more, however, where do you suggest the buck stops? The Politur cannot keep the beach vendors away from the tables on the beach becuase, again, the beach vendors are licensed and are allowed access to the tables and tourists on the beach. The politur, however, can keep the beggars away, but unfortunately, the politur are seldom around, and when they are, the beggars simply scamper off for 5 minutes and then return when the coast is clear.

Basically, it boils down to economics: the money is where the tourists are. Why would a beggar or vendor venture anywhere outside a tourist area when there is little money to be made there? You can shoe them off all you want, you can incarcerate and lock them up all you want, but at the end of the day, they're all going to return back to where the money is. Period. Who here would do otherwise, given the same economical situation. That's why i emphathize with them. First, because i'm half dominican, and secondly, becuase they all have families to feed and their trying to survive like everyone else.

To suggest that the "Buck" needs to stop with "one restaurant" or one "restaurant owner" is disengenuous at best, and naive at worst. To suggest that it has to do with one's prices, as someone here has suggested, is simply invalid. It's a legal issue more than anthing else. As long as the beach vendors have free reign of the beach, they're going no where; as long as their is money to be made from the tourists, they're going no where, and as long as the Politur avoid or cannot enforce the laws, they're going no where. Would you go anywhere else?

But yes, the security will help alleviate the stress of keeping them out of the restaurant, but he can do nothing about keeping them away from all the beach tables.

 
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Big Dan

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Feb 14, 2009
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Big Dan,

I appreciate your suggestions and i agree with you that we need security and it will be nice to have him back on staff once the season kicks in. However, what would you suggest all the restaurants and bars in Cabarete do regarding the "public" beach area where all the vendors and beggars have free reign? All the restaurants, including Nikki Beach, cannot keep the vendors away from their tables on the beach, because, as i've already pointed out, the beach area is "public" space.

You mention that the "Buck" needs to stop somewhere, and i couldn't agree with that assessment more, however, where do you suggest the buck stops? The Politur cannot keep the beach vendors away from the tables on the beach becuase, again, the beach vendors are licensed and are allowed access to the tables and tourists on the beach. The politur, however, can keep the beggars away, but unfortunately, the politur are seldom around, and when they are, the beggars simply scamper off for 5 minutes and then return when the coast is clear.

Basically, it boils down to economics: the money is where the tourists are. Why would a beggar or vendor venture anywhere outside a tourist area when there is little money to be made there? You can shoe them off all you want, you can incarcerate and lock them up all you want, but at the end of the day, they're all going to return back to where the money is. Period. Who here would do otherwise, given the same economical situation. That's why i emphathize with them. First, because i'm half dominican, and secondly, becuase they all have families to feed and their trying to survive like everyone else.

To suggest that the "Buck" needs to stop with "one restaurant" or one "restaurant owner" is disengenuous at best, and naive at worst. To suggest that it has to do with one's prices, as someone here has suggested, is simply invalid. It's a legal issue more than anthing else. As long as the beach vendors have free reign of the beach, they're going no where; as long as their is money to be made from the tourists, they're going no where, and as long as the Politur avoid or cannot enforce the laws, they're going no where. Would you go anywhere else?

But yes, the security will help alleviate the stress of keeping them out of the restaurant, but he can do nothing about keeping them away from all the beach tables.

Frank,

The vendors harrassing tourists will never change. Never! Vendors also harrass people who live there, to an extent. In Sosua I had the vendor harrassing knocked down to vendors who were new to the scene, and had beggars only saying buenos noches to me instead of putting their hand out. That happened because I was consistent. I bought from only a couple of vendors and they had my loyalty. All others were simply ignored.

You cannot control what happens in other restaurants or in public areas, and you really should not care about that. Jose O'Shays doesn't own the beach, but the business owner owns or leases the inside areas of the building, so you should establish quality controls for that. You can't control vendors on the beach, so you should ignore them. Let them have free reign out there. Expats know what to expect when they eat outside. If tourists complain, tell them the truth; it's out of your control. You shouldn't be in the business of removing vendors from the beach. Not your problem. Never was, isn't now, and won't be in the future.

The buck stops with your boss, for HIS business, and he decides what is acceptable inside the building. He does not care what happens to his competition; I'm sure he'd love to be the only business on the beach. The less hassle he has inside his business, the more hassle goes to the beach businesses; then it's THEIR problem.

Tourists are familiar with first world standards when they visit a restaurant. A great part of that is knowing, or not even thinking about, a vendor from the outside stopping at their table to hock CDs or Goodwill clothes.

It only takes a sign at each entrance --- HASSLE FREE INSIDE, WE PROHIBIT VENDORS --- to draw tourists who have experienced hassles at the other restaurants and are sick of it or want an evening or afternoon of relative peace and quiet. Give tourists the oasis and the normalcy they want.

And then you must ENFORCE that policy for your clientele, who will spread the word about the great times they had, instead of complaining about prices or being bothered by non-paying people from the outside. That means you hire one enforcer, and if he can't keep up with the vendors who enter, hire a second one. If two can't do it, hire three. Your first hiring attempt should be to hire one of the vendors to do the policing. If you guarantee a little security for his family he'll protect that, and have the immediate respect of the other vendors. If he lets others slip in, fire him on the spot, and replace him with his best friend.

The point is to establish a business policy and enforce it. Establish and maintain quality within the areas you control, namely the inside of the establishment, and IGNORE completely what happens on the outside.

When I lived in Sosua I never went to Jose O'Shays on my Cabarete visits. I saw no point in paying $10 for a Guiness when I could drink a Grande for $4. But, if I had a guarantee of a truly western experience, a la a "regular" dining or drinking experience that I was accustomed to back home, I might have considered it.
 

frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Big dan,

I appreciate all the suggestions. i sincerely mean that; feel free to keep them coming! You have made some good suggestions here and i would like to address a few of those. First, we have a business policy, no vendors allowed in the restaurant. period. all three managers do their best to keep on top of this and enforce this, and i feel, perhaps naively, that we're doing a pretty good job at it but, again, it's time consuming and energy draining. Also, remember, we are a walk-thru restaurant with a main pathway that connnects the street to the beach, and we're one of the most heavily used walkways other than the alley way that connects the street between BHD bank and Pomadoro restaurant on the far end of the beach. With so many entrance ways into and thru the restaurant, it's a full-time job keeping one's eye on each entrance (The beach & street). Sure, we could tell every vendor that for now on you cannot use our walkway to go between the street and beach but, i'm not sure this is legal, and i don't think its ethical to discriminate against a small segment of the population like this no matter how frustrating they are.

you suggest hiring a vendor to police his friends. to me, this is tantamount to hiring a wolf to police other wolves to guard the farmer's (Jose O'shay's customers) sheep. I cannot see this even remotely working. Hiring someone to police one's friend's when most of the vendors work and live amongst each other and their children are going to school with one another and their wives all know each other, etc. would never work. And firing them left and right would only create more bad blood. and then there's the issue of how much are we going to pay them? Say we pay them $1000-$1500 pesos a day. Guess what, i routinely see these guys make that amount off of one single sale in 10 minutes. they would never quit their jobs to work ten hours in order to make the amount of money they can make in ten minutes. this would be like asking a prostitute down here to quit her evening job to work at McDonald's for minumum wage. Why would she quit her evening job when she could make her whole month's McDonald's salary in one sale.

Big Dan, you're absolutely right that we cannot control what goes on to other businesses, and you rightly suggest it's their problem but, in fact, it's all of our problem, every one of us. We all have beach tables, and we all have the vendors and beggars approaching our tables on the beach. Yes, we shoe off the beggars and shoe-shine boys but, again, the vendors have a license that enables them to approach all of our tables. So, to me, it's all our problem, everyone of us. And the busier you are, the more they're going to hang around your place. it's a Catch-22, and it's also a vicious-cycle that keeps repeating itself. And like you suggested, it's not going away anytime soon.

And the world turns.

Sincerely, Frank

Frank,

The vendors harrassing tourists will never change. Never! Vendors also harrass people who live there, to an extent. In Sosua I had the vendor harrassing knocked down to vendors who were new to the scene, and had beggars only saying buenos noches to me instead of putting their hand out. That happened because I was consistent. I bought from only a couple of vendors and they had my loyalty. All others were simply ignored.

You cannot control what happens in other restaurants or in public areas, and you really should not care about that. Jose O'Shays doesn't own the beach, but the business owner owns or leases the inside areas of the building, so you should establish quality controls for that. You can't control vendors on the beach, so you should ignore them. Let them have free reign out there. Expats know what to expect when they eat outside. If tourists complain, tell them the truth; it's out of your control. You shouldn't be in the business of removing vendors from the beach. Not your problem. Never was, isn't now, and won't be in the future.

The buck stops with your boss, for HIS business, and he decides what is acceptable inside the building. He does not care what happens to his competition; I'm sure he'd love to be the only business on the beach. The less hassle he has inside his business, the more hassle goes to the beach businesses; then it's THEIR problem.

Tourists are familiar with first world standards when they visit a restaurant. A great part of that is knowing, or not even thinking about, a vendor from the outside stopping at their table to hock CDs or Goodwill clothes.

It only takes a sign at each entrance --- HASSLE FREE INSIDE, WE PROHIBIT VENDORS --- to draw tourists who have experienced hassles at the other restaurants and are sick of it or want an evening or afternoon of relative peace and quiet. Give tourists the oasis and the normalcy they want.

And then you must ENFORCE that policy for your clientele, who will spread the word about the great times they had, instead of complaining about prices or being bothered by non-paying people from the outside. That means you hire one enforcer, and if he can't keep up with the vendors who enter, hire a second one. If two can't do it, hire three. Your first hiring attempt should be to hire one of the vendors to do the policing. If you guarantee a little security for his family he'll protect that, and have the immediate respect of the other vendors. If he lets others slip in, fire him on the spot, and replace him with his best friend.

The point is to establish a business policy and enforce it. Establish and maintain quality within the areas you control, namely the inside of the establishment, and IGNORE completely what happens on the outside.

When I lived in Sosua I never went to Jose O'Shays on my Cabarete visits. I saw no point in paying $10 for a Guiness when I could drink a Grande for $4. But, if I had a guarantee of a truly western experience, a la a "regular" dining or drinking experience that I was accustomed to back home, I might have considered it.
 
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oriole100

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Oct 9, 2005
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I guess I'm slow. Is it possible to talk to the people, Mayor, who issue the license's. It looks like Niki, has some sort of deal with him. May be cheaper then a guard. If the vendors are told to stay away and they don't? It seems to work for Niki. Have you asked them what they do?
 
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