This Is Why Nothing Works Right

the gorgon

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The Senate has passed a US$35 million loan to be used to improve farming production and competitiveness in the southwestern province of San Juan de la Maguana. The plan is to help farmers' associations in the area in the introduction and use new farming techniques. US$15 million of the funds will be used to install controlled-environment greenhouses and another US$7 million will go towards transforming irrigation systems. US$13 million will be spent on training courses for the farmers. The Ministry of Agriculture will be responsible for the project's implementation.

13 million dollars will be spent on "training courses"? sounds like another looting to me. are they sending all the farmers to Dartmouth?
 

LTSteve

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Jul 9, 2010
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The Senate has passed a US$35 million loan to be used to improve farming production and competitiveness in the southwestern province of San Juan de la Maguana. The plan is to help farmers' associations in the area in the introduction and use new farming techniques. US$15 million of the funds will be used to install controlled-environment greenhouses and another US$7 million will go towards transforming irrigation systems. US$13 million will be spent on training courses for the farmers. The Ministry of Agriculture will be responsible for the project's implementation.

13 million dollars will be spent on "training courses"? sounds like another looting to me. are they sending all the farmers to Dartmouth?

It is very expensive to put all those farmers in the Mariott San Juan de la Maguana, get a meeting room, lunches, dinner and meet and great cocktail hours.
 

the gorgon

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It is very expensive to put all those farmers in the Mariott San Juan de la Maguana, get a meeting room, lunches, dinner and meet and great cocktail hours.

and, lest we forget, for each farmer that is being housed in palatial surroundings, there has to be at least six botella chaperones, relatives of politicians, and their concubines. it adds up fast.
 

Chip

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I see a lot of things work well here. We can no more fix the political system here in the DR than we could that of the US so it is just another inconvenience in this life that we have to deal with.

The DR political system and LA are corrupt in a large part due to the Monroe Doctrine.
 

hammerdown

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Looks to me that the farmers get screwed, but the politicos get new yeepetas all the way around......
 

the gorgon

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I see a lot of things work well here. We can no more fix the political system here in the DR than we could that of the US so it is just another inconvenience in this life that we have to deal with.

The DR political system and LA are corrupt in a large part due to the Monroe Doctrine.

the Monroe Doctrine caused Dominican politicians to be a criminal conspiracy? do explain!

what does some 19th century political doctrine have to do with guys like Felix Bautista?
 
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the gorgon

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Chip, you have become perfectly aplatanado. you have even become a believer in the "no es mi culpa" style of life. the DR is crawling with dishonest politicians, police personnel, and military officers. it is not their fault. it is the fault of the USA.

i don't get it.
 

Chip

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the Monroe Doctrine caused Dominican politicians to be a criminal conspiracy? do explain!

what does some 19th century political doctrine have to do with guys like Felix Bautista?

In the case of the DR Trujillo was hand picked by the US gov't and when he was deposed his puppet president Balaguer created the clientilism political system.

In other counties the US has used their influence and money to fund local corrupt politicians and negotiated multi million dollar contracts for American business. These types of negotiations weed out principled individuals and establish a precedence. When a few individuals have so much more money than anyone else they are easily able to influence and control politics and ensure the system never really changes.

Brazil is currently using the same system to influence LA politics, including the DR.
 

Chip

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Chip, you have become perfectly aplatanado. you have even become a believer in the "no es mi culpa" style of life. the DR is crawling with dishonest politicians, police personnel, and military officers. it is not their fault. it is the fault of the USA.

i don't get it.

I'm actually surprised you don't know a whole lot about the Monroe Doctrine, still the historical evidence is there. Big money makes a big difference in poor countries.

I also don't see how a normal Dominican citizen should be blamed for their politicians, after all it's not like you can vote for anyone you want in this country and as such generally have a miserable selection to choose from anyway.

You as an islander should have a more open mind regarding right and wrong from a neutral perspective instead of giving the gringos carte blanche for everything.
 

the gorgon

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In the case of the DR Trujillo was hand picked by the US gov't and when he was deposed his puppet president Balaguer created the clientilism political system.

In other counties the US has used their influence and money to fund local corrupt politicians and negotiated multi million dollar contracts for American business. These types of negotiations weed out principled individuals and establish a precedence. When a few individuals have so much more money than anyone else they are easily able to influence and control politics and ensure the system never really changes.

Brazil is currently using the same system to influence LA politics, including the DR.

so you are saying that it is the fault of the USA that these guys have no morals and principles?

i thought that honor and dignity were things people learned in their homes. now i know that it is something Uncle Sam retards.
 

Chip

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so you are saying that it is the fault of the USA that these guys have no morals and principles?

i thought that honor and dignity were things people learned in their homes. now i know that it is something Uncle Sam retards.

If we are talking about the politicians, of course it is the US fault. I'm not saying they are still overtly influencing politics but the fact is they created Trujillo and all those millions of millions of dollars have been used every election cycle by a few groups of corrupt individuals. Money buys elections one way or another not only in the DR but in the US as you know.
 

the gorgon

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I'm actually surprised you don't know a whole lot about the Monroe Doctrine, still the historical evidence is there. Big money makes a big difference in poor countries.

I also don't see how a normal Dominican citizen should be blamed for their politicians, after all it's not like you can vote for anyone you want in this country and as such generally have a miserable selection to choose from anyway.

You as an islander should have a more open mind regarding right and wrong from a neutral perspective instead of giving the gringos carte blanche for everything.

who tells you i do not know about the Monroe Doctrine? i studied history at University, Chip. have an honors degree in the subject.

i am an islander, and i make no excuses for anyone. thievery has nothing to do with colonial heritage. my father was a two time minister of government, and died penniless, because he never stole a penny of the people's money. he was a surgeon in his private life, and went broke because he subsidized the health care of his patients. the ministry over which he had portfolio presented a golden opportunity for thievery, but when you are honorable you do not take what is not yours to take. to believe that the Monroe Doctrine is to blame for lack of ethics and morality has to be right up there with the dumbest things i have ever heard.
 

Chip

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who tells you i do not know about the Monroe Doctrine? i studied history at University, Chip. have an honors degree in the subject.

i am an islander, and i make no excuses for anyone. thievery has nothing to do with colonial heritage. my father was a two time minister of government, and died penniless, because he never stole a penny of the people's money. he was a surgeon in his private life, and went broke because he subsidized the health care of his patients. the ministry over which he had portfolio presented a golden opportunity for thievery, but when you are honorable you do not take what is not yours to take. to believe that the Monroe Doctrine is to blame for lack of ethics and morality has to be right up there with the dumbest things i have ever heard.

I see, the fact that Dominican politicians are corrupt implies it's citizens in a large part are because they voted for them? Using that same logic would mean your father was corrupt as well. Maybe you should rethink your logic.

You also overlook money in LA politics. I will refer you to Brazil and the fact they have all of the major public works in the project not to mention the sale of the Tucano planes.

I have to do some work to pay the bills, ciao.
 

the gorgon

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I see, the fact that Dominican politicians are corrupt implies it's citizens in a large part are because they voted for them? Using that same logic would mean your father was corrupt as well. Maybe you should rethink your logic.

You also overlook money in LA politics. I will refer you to Brazil and the fact they have all of the major public works in the project not to mention the sale of the Tucano planes.

I have to do some work to pay the bills, ciao.

give me a few years to figure out the first paragraph. it might make sense to you, but i am still trying to translate it into english.

money plays a part in the politics of all nations, as far as i know. however, some are more corrupt than others. that is why there is such a thing as the World Corruption Index. maybe the fact that the DR ranked 147 out of 148 countries surveyed in government mismanagement of public funds (a euphemism for thievery) is because of a 19th century US president.
 

AlterEgo

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Actually, I've seen this sort of thing work before, and know people who benefited from it in the Ocoa area. The greenhouses are a tremendous asset to the farmers, there are groups who will commit to buy their entire crop before it's even planted. Some oddball things [for DR] are sometimes grown, all for export. Mr. AE's brother bought several greenhouses personally, if I remember they were in the $10-20,000USD range each. We have a section of our land bulldozed and graded with the thought of putting one in at some point.

The problem I remember is that most of the farmers who get the help are connected in some way to the govt through family or friends, but that's not surprising. Remember where they are.
 

the gorgon

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Actually, I've seen this sort of thing work before, and know people who benefited from it in the Ocoa area. The greenhouses are a tremendous asset to the farmers, there are groups who will commit to buy their entire crop before it's even planted. Some oddball things [for DR] are sometimes grown, all for export. Mr. AE's brother bought several greenhouses personally, if I remember they were in the $10-20,000USD range each. We have a section of our land bulldozed and graded with the thought of putting one in at some point.

The problem I remember is that most of the farmers who get the help are connected in some way to the govt through family or friends, but that's not surprising. Remember where they are.

but 13 million dollars for training farmers? who are the teachers? Felix, Leonel, and Diaz Rua?