1st/2nd/3rd/4th world definitions & descriptions

[DR1]

How about....

I got DSL back in 1997, long before many parts of the USA.
How about one of the most advanced communications networks in this hemisphere, PCS, SMS, GSM etc etc...

I can go on and on if you want?

As I have said, parts of the campo are a little different, but the largest % of the people live in the main cities.

If you want third world, spend some time in Ethiopia or other parts of Africa.
Now we are talking!

Rob.

 

[arf]

Re: SECOND WORLD = communist countries *DC*

 

[Jim Hinsch]

Re: That question is not relevant

Here are 6 airports off the top of my head that recieve international flights. I think there's another one out by Samana that is no receiving American Eagle flights from San Juan, making it also an international airport.

Santo Domingo AILA
Santo Domingo Herrera
La Romana
Punta Cana
Santiago
Puerto Plata

I totally agree about what one thinks of when 3rd world comes to mind.

 

["The Tourist Watcher"]

Re: Jumday-Nonsense-Any house $100,000

Jumday: If the reference to nonsense is that you dont believe any house is worth $100,000, let me give you some idea:

Between Maximo Gomez Avenue, 27 de Febrero Avenue,to Luperon Avenue and north to Kennedy Avenue, then in the residential areas of Arroyo Hondo, Los Rios, that is almost 50% of the population of the city of Santo Domingo, there is not one house costing less than US$100,000. The minimum Sq.meter of construction in new hi-rises above 7 floors in Santo Domingo(poligono central) is US$720. With 90% of apartments in this type of hi-rises exceeding 150mts. few if any will cost less than US$100,000. In fact, in Piantini,Naco, Bella Vista,Los Cacicazgos,Mirador Sur,Diamond Plaza,El Vergel,La Esperilla, Gazcue, El Malecon,and Arroyo Hondo, no condo in hi-rises over 7 floors cost less than US$120,000. The majority range from $175,000-$500,000. Houses in these areas cannot be found for less than $US470,000.

Even in lower income neighborhoods like Alma Rosa, Ensanche Ozama, Ensanche Luperon, Ensanche La Fe, El Faro, Villa Juana you would be lucky to find a concrete house for less than US$100,000. Most of the new larger houses in Avenida Charles De Gaulle, San Vicente de Paul, Avenida Espa?a Corridor, lower income neighborhoods will exceed that amount easily. Some will even approach Piantini prices. There are houses that sell for over US$200,000 even in Sabana Perdida. Cristo Rey has many houses over that amount. Even in Capotillo!!!

You go to the farmlands and it is the same, since most houses have large land extensions attached to it. For instance in the San Cristobal heights, some of the residences there are in the luxury category. From Palenque to Bani, specially in the seafront areas it is quite expensive.

If you dont believe me, pick up the classifieds at Listin Diario and check it out for yourself, or just call Remax and ask them to send you their published listing of houses with pictures and prices, and then tell me if this is nonsense.

Santiago right now has five houses selling for more than US$2,000,000 in Cerros de Gurabo!!!

The cities of Santiago, Puerto Plata, La Romana and others are no different. People better start believing....Dominican Republic land and property is not Mickey Mouse stuff anymore.

TW

 

[Sarah]

Hi ECH - Article explains it. *DC*

 

[Loren]

It comes down to disposable income

There are some people who have a condescending attitude towards the Dominican Republic. That is neither realistic or productive. Pedantics are boring so rather than statistics lets look around. The food in Pollo Victorina costs roughly the same as in a KFC. Pollo Victorinas are all over the place, certainly not a tourist restaurant. Just go to Ave. Mexico in the Capital or Luis Amiama Ti? in San Pedro. Go to the Wendys on Venezuela...0% tourists and NOT a rich neighborhood. Go to the McDonalds in San pedro, again 0% tourists and not rich. Go to a Dominican resort and depending on when you go you can easily see 50% Dominican Patronage. Go to Columbus Aquapark on the North Coast. When I was there it was almost 100% Dominican patronage. It costs the same to get in there as some amusement parks in the states.

The Dominican Republic is not a poor country. That is not to say there are not poor people in the D.R; we have homeless people (we used to call them BUMS) living under bridges and stuff in the U.S. I remember 12 years ago taking a trip to North Carolina and seeing people living with dirt floors in their houses. Generally, people are not starving in the D.R... not even the poor.

There is a huge impediment to developing countries becoming wealthy countries in the form of international community debt forgiveness schemes that create "moral hazards" discouraging fiscal responsibility and macroeconomic best practices, and also in the form of well meaning charities strutting fly infested little babies on the tv screens in front of millions stripping citizens of their dignity and making them dependent on constant shipments of surplus gruel never addressing the underlying predicaments in the first place. But I digress.

If you think the D.R. is a poor country, go and drive up Ave. 25 in the capital, a 100% poor area and stop on the street to get something to eat. Everyone you see will have cell phones, beepers, and everything from motoconchos to jeepetas del a?o. You will see poor people too, but they will have a hustle. Their kids will probably do better than them. Most of the beggars you see are disabled or haitian. If you want to see a poor place, go to Nicaragua. Even there, people are doing a lot better than a few years ago. People who have really been to poor "3rd world" countries will know better than to identify the D.R. as one.

 

[Loren]

Small village life not equal to the rest of DR

It is not realistic to compare what you experience in a small village somewhere to the typical Dominican Experience. As you were probably there representing some noble effort I salute you but that is simply not how most people live in the D.R. Neither do they live in $100,000 chateaus either. My experience is that neither of these are typical, though I can point you to a lot of shacks and I can point you to a lot of multimillion peso dwellings also.

As for the illegal Haitian immigrants, that is a distortion to include them in the tally of the Dominican Republic's place in the world. No, they shouldnt be ignored or neglected but they shouldnt be counted in a measure of the Dominican standard of living.

If you spent your time around regular people and not with the rural poor your point of view would certainly be different. If you are out there doing some good works please continue but understand that you are working with the D.R.'s poor, not the D.R's average citizens.

 

[CES]

Re: That question is not relevant

"Jim, please give us the % of people in :

the DR living in accommodations over USD$100,000 -

the 'in betweens' -

and those living hand to mouth -"

................................................................

I've always thought the only bad question was the one that didn't get asked, maybe there's a bit more to it than that. I guess if one wants an intelligent answer then they must ask an intelligent question, so . . .

I'll expand on the above quote, in my part of the world I wouldn't consider living in a neighborhood with any homes selling for less than U$D100,000-, granted you have to make adjustments for other areas of the USA as things tend to be a bit pricey here in California. The best way for me to make a judgment call or decision is to put it in the context of daily living (come to think of it I guess most people do the same) hence the 100K figure. The prices of some things in SDQ are on par with the USA, for example real estate. To be on par with my neighborhood here I would have look at properties in the 200K+ range in SDQ if I were to make straight across comparisons.

I guess in light of the additional information that has developed maybe my original question is valid, so what's the answer?

regards,

. . . CES

 

[Sarah]

Facts regarding Dominican Economy ...

Economy - overview: The Dominican economy experienced dramatic growth over the last decade, even though the economy was hit hard by Hurricane Georges in 1998. Although the country has long been viewed primarily as an exporter of sugar, coffee, and tobacco, in recent years the service sector has overtaken agriculture as the economy's largest employer, due to growth in tourism and free trade zones. The country suffers from marked income inequality; the poorest half of the population receives less than one-fifth of GNP, while the richest ten percent enjoy 40% of national income. In December 2000, the new MEJIA administration passed broad new tax legislation which it hopes will provide enough revenue to offset rising oil prices and to service foreign debt.

GDP: purchasing power parity - $48.3 billion (2000 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 8% (2000 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $5,700 (2000 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 11.3%

industry: 32.2%

services: 56.5% (1999 est.)
Population below poverty line: 25% (1999 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:

lowest 10%: 1.6%

highest 10%: 39.6% (1989)
Inflation rate (consumer prices): 7.9% (2000 est.)
Labor force: 2.3 million - 2.6 million
Labor force - by occupation: services and government 58.7%, industry 24.3%, agriculture 17% (1998 est.)
Unemployment rate: 13.8% (1999 est.)
Budget:

revenues: $2.3 billion

expenditures: $2.9 billion, including capital expenditures of $867 million (1999 est.)
Industries: tourism, sugar processing, ferronickel and gold mining, textiles, cement, tobacco
Industrial production growth rate: 8% (2000 est.)
Electricity - production: 7.29 billion kWh (1999)
Electricity - production by source:

fossil fuel: 87.19%

hydro: 12.4%

nuclear: 0%

other: 0.41% (1999)
Electricity - consumption: 6.78 billion kWh (1999)
Electricity - exports: 0 kWh (1999)
Electricity - imports: 0 kWh (1999)
Agriculture - products: sugarcane, coffee, cotton, cocoa, tobacco, rice, beans, potatoes, corn, bananas; cattle, pigs, dairy products, beef, eggs
Exports: $5.8 billion (f.o.b., 2000)
Exports - commodities: ferronickel, sugar, gold, silver, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, meats
Exports - partners: US 66.1%, Netherlands 7.8%, Canada 7.6%, Russia 7.4%, UK 4.5% (1999 est.)
Imports: $9.6 billion (f.o.b., 2000 est.)
Imports - commodities: foodstuffs, petroleum, cotton and fabrics, chemicals and pharmaceuticals
Imports - partners: US 25.7%, Venezuela 9.2%, Mexico 4%, Japan 3%, Panama 2.6% (1999 est.)
Debt - external: $4.7 billion (2000 est.)
Economic aid - recipient: $239.6 million (1995)
Currency: Dominican peso (DOP)
Currency code: DOP
Exchange rates: Dominican pesos per US dollar - 16.888 (January 2001), 16.415 (2000), 16.033 (1999), 15.267 (1998), 14.265 (1997), 13.775 (1996)
Fiscal year: calendar year

 

[Loren]

if they're so poor, how do they pay 4 bottled h2o? *DC*

 

[Loren]

THE D.R. IS ABOVE AVERAGE IN PER CAPITA GDP

According to Countrywatch.com the Dominican Republic ranks #75 out of 191 countries ranked, with a Y2K Per Capita GDP of $5,222. Compared to the rest of the world, the D.R. is quite developed. Compared to G7 countries it lags far behind. The D.R. ranks by this measure above countries like Russia (81), Peru (83), China (88), Romania (90), Phillipines (95), Egypt (104), India (136) and Bosnia (138).

Of course there are poor people in the D.R. who don't have internet, etc. Compared against the rest of the world, the Dominican Republic is simply not a poor country. It only appears poor when compared to the very richest. That's like saying someone with a $200,000 house is poor because you compare him to Ross Perot or Donald Trump. That is what you are doing when you compare the D.R. to a G7 country.

 

[Jumday]

per your request

They simply do not buy the water the way you do, no cute little designer bottles with european names.

A family that I am friendly with has 4 members and the water budget is 21 pesos for 3 days. Projecting this over 30 days would come to a grand total of 630 pesos.

Certainly is better than the doctor bills if they were to drink from tap.

 

[Jumday]

Re: TW-Nonsense-Any house $100,000

It appears you may have misunderstood my response. I did not intend to imply that there not any homes worth 100k. There certainly are homes with that value range (I happen to own one) and in many cases a great deal more.

However, I do take exception with your implication that ANY concrete home in DR has the value of 100k, as this is simply not the case. There are a great deal of homes to be found even in your beloved capital for far less. Would everyone care to live in them, that would depend upon their tastes. Note, I may have to revise this observation in the coming months if the goverment continues to add taxes at this rate.

As for your statement that real estate in the DR is not Mickey Mouse stuff anymore. Since most people who read this forum are tourists or people looking for a winter home the term Mickey Mouse may be a more accurate description than you may have intended.

Regards,