A Professional Dominicana as First Lady

[Tony C]

I'm with Tordok on dealing with you. I have proven my point. I don't wish to expound on it. I have provided sufficient reasoning which you have chosen to disregard or ignore. That is your choice. If you have an issue you can PM, but warning don't waste my time.

Like I said it would behoove her to be honest because her honesty is a reflection upon Leonel. To the contrary the populist parties should jump at this idea because it increases the risk of failure for PLD. But if done correctly and honestly high risk that pays off also provides a high return. The country will be better for it. You need to get out of the bedroom. This is politics.

So you are going to run away defeated? Your not going to answer my scenario?
You are putting her up as a role model just because she is a woman. How Sexist is that? You tout Hillary but I Don't hear you say what a accomplished woman Condeleeza Rice is. A woman who is more accomplished and is more of a self made sucess than Hillary.
What makes you think the PLD will do things Honestly? They never have before!

 

[deelt]

Tony, I am already a winner, baby.

I answered your scenario. You chose to.....ignore my response.

Ana is being lauded as the first professional competent First Lady in Dominican history...if that is not a role model I don't know what is. If it were up to you she would be sancochando platanos in the campo to feed los tres gaticos pegao'.

Condi Rice and Elizabeth Dole (former CEO of Red Cross, wife of former Sen. Bob Dole) both of these women are Republicans. I *already* mentioned they were *very* competent women in previous posts. You chose to....ignore my response.

I may not agree with Rice's politics or all her responses before a Senate committee but the woman was a professor at Stanford.

If the honesty of PLD is in question put it to test. Place Ana in a position of power.

So you are going to run away defeated? Your not going to answer my scenario?
You are putting her up as a role model just because she is a woman. How Sexist is that? You tout Hillary but I Don't hear you say what a accomplished woman Condeleeza Rice is. A woman who is more accomplished and is more of a self made sucess than Hillary.
What makes you think the PLD will do things Honestly? They never have before!

 

[Tony C]

Tony, I am already a winner, baby.

I answered your scenario. You chose to.....ignore my response.
.

You Did? All you said was that it wouldn't happen.
the Track record of the PLD may look exemplery compared with those of the PRD but don't be like your compatriots and forget what they did.

 

[deelt]

I did. If she is found to be in corrupt activities this is sufficient reason to vote them out. (most likely, if Ana/Leonel fail they will lose to the PRSC.)

I have not forgotten. PLD performed well. However, the did follow the washington consensus too closely, ignoring the rural population. From what I have seen thus far in the preparation this is not an error to occur again. It is also the responsibility of the Dominican community "en el exterior" to pressure and ensure this does not happen.

The point is we must be active and progressive and not leave it all on the shoulders of the government regardless of who is in government. Like Kennedy and Che (nearly) said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?" Capisce?

d

You Did? All you said was that it wouldn't happen.
the Track record of the PLD may look exemplery compared with those of the PRD but don't be like your compatriots and forget what they did.

 

[Tony C]

I did. If she is found to be in corrupt activities this is sufficient reason to vote them out.

Will you ever answer the QUESTION? Would Leonel Divorce her is she is found to be incompetent or corrupt?

(most likely, if Ana/Leonel fail they will lose to the PRSC.)

Oh now its ANA & Leonel?

I have not forgotten. PLD performed well. However, the did follow the washington consensus too closely, ignoring the rural population. From what I have seen thus far in the preparation this is not an error to occur again. It is also the responsibility of the Dominican community "en el exterior" to pressure and ensure this does not happen.

Oh so the only thing the PLD did wrong was to listen to the US? What about the Corruption?

The point is we must be active and progressive and not leave it all on the shoulders of the government regardless of who is in government. Like Kennedy and Che (nearly) said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?" Capisce?
d

Funny how you quote a Democrat and a Commie! To types who hate to have people realizing that they should take responsibilty for their own lives

 

[deelt]

First of all I don't care if they get divorce or not. To me it is a non-issue that is 1) none of our business; 2) irrelevant because if found guilty of corruption the damage will have been done.

Show me a government that does not have some level of corruption...the issue is degrees of corruption. I would say they at least delivered in helping the country...more than I can for what Hippo did.

On the last point, I parcially agree with you, but that doesn't take away from the validity of the quote.

D

Will you ever answer the QUESTION? Would Leonel Divorce her is she is found to be incompetent or corrupt?

Oh now its ANA & Leonel?

Oh so the only thing the PLD did wrong was to listen to the US? What about the Corruption?

Funny how you quote a Democrat and a Commie! To types who hate to have people realizing that they should take responsibilty for their own lives

 

[Tony C]

First of all I don't care if they get divorce or not. To me it is a non-issue that is 1) none of our business; 2) irrelevant because if found guilty of corruption the damage will have been done.

So you see I am right. You will not accept the fact that the first lady will have no accountability.
If she is guilty of corruption it wouldn't bother you that she will still have the President's ear(And other parts of his anatomy)?
She might be a great person and a credit to her Country but she should not have any government post of importance!

Show me a government that does not have some level of corruption...the issue is degrees of corruption. I would say they at least delivered in helping the country...more than I can for what Hippo did.

What does that have to do with anything? Just because Hipolito's term was so corrupt it gives a free pass the the PLD?

On the last point, I parcially agree with you, but that doesn't take away from the validity of the quote.

Yes it does. It was a quote made by Hypocrities. How can it be valid?

 

[deelt]

Tony don't twist my words. I don't agree with you. I have taken my stand and stated my reasoning. If you chose not to accept it that is your choice. LET IT GO. I am. This is my last post on this.

So you see I am right. You will not accept the fact that the first lady will have no accountability.
If she is guilty of corruption it wouldn't bother you that she will still have the President's ear(And other parts of his anatomy)?
She might be a great person and a credit to her Country but she should not have any government post of importance!

What does that have to do with anything? Just because Hipolito's term was so corrupt it gives a free pass the the PLD?

Yes it does. It was a quote made by Hypocrities. How can it be valid?

 

[Tony C]

Tony don't twist my words. I don't agree with you. I have taken my stand and stated my reasoning. If you chose not to accept it that is your choice. LET IT GO. I am. This is my last post on this.

Your refusal to answer the direct questions only shows that you cannot defend your indefensible position!
I win!

 

[Jane J.]

If she is guilty of corruption it wouldn't bother you that she will still have the President's ear(And other parts of his anatomy)?

Sorry to interject and disrupt your lovely conversation, but wouldn't giving her any sort of function be nepotistic, problematic and subject to suspicion from all fronts?

He wouldn't do that, would he?

Shouldn't she be at home anyway raising the baby??????????????????

 

[BushBaby]

Your refusal to answer the direct questions only shows that you cannot defend your indefensible position!
I win!

So there you have it Deelt - it wasn't about being right or wrong, correct interpretations or incorrect interpretations, facts or misinformation, ... it was all about "WINNING" an argument!!! What a pity sane & reasoned discussion has to be treated this way!

Actually, looking at the statement made on the first thread & the much more concillatory response about 20 posts further back, I would say that YOU won in that his stance changed quite dramatically. HE won't see that of course, his perception of his own stance will not allow him to see how his argument changed to meet HIS idea of what he was arguing about.

Enjoy your next few days off - you need & deserve a rest from TonyC!! - Grahame.

 

[Tony C]

So there you have it Deelt - it wasn't about being right or wrong, correct interpretations or incorrect interpretations, facts or misinformation, ... it was all about "WINNING" an argument!!! What a pity sane & reasoned discussion has to be treated this way!

Actually, looking at the statement made on the first thread & the much more concillatory response about 20 posts further back, I would say that YOU won in that his stance changed quite dramatically. HE won't see that of course, his perception of his own stance will not allow him to see how his argument changed to meet HIS idea of what he was arguing about.

Enjoy your next few days off - you need & deserve a rest from TonyC!! - Grahame.

"Sigh" Typical!
You can't defend her lack of accountabilty. You and your ilk just want to defend her because she has a vagina!

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

"Sigh" Typical!
You can't defend her lack of accountabilty. You and your ilk just want to defend her because she has a vagina!

I'm going to take Tony's side on this.

As he has mentioned in other threads, all of you people live in a fantasyland. You are all out of touch with reality. Reality is not a golden field of poppies. Really, you all make me want to laugh. No, to puke. Reality is a dish best served cold. Only some of us - those of us preordained - are entitled to know that which is true reality.

In debating, as in life, there are only winners and losers. And you all are losers. Middle ground or compromise is for the weak. You democrats, liberals and other assorted commies live in that "gray area" that Clinton loved so much. People like me and GWB know that there can be no middle ground. There is only right and wrong, and my side is always right. Discussions for englightenment sake are for woosies.

As Tony's and my hero, Ayn Rand, once said, "you losers all suck."

And, as Tony showed us with the above post, if it becomes necessary to hammer-home the absolute correctness of an argument, the throwing of a mysogonistic bomb may be appropriate (a lesson learned from the now-retired XR) for the sake of victory of truth.

In regard to Leonel's wife, know this: People like us - people who accomplish, who take that which is ours- are entitled to more than regular people. Take the American ambassador, for example, as Tony did recently. He may be a Puerto Rican tigueraje who bought his position with contributions to the Bush campaign, but those are the rules of the game. Power and authority go to the people who know how to take it. Should a shoeshine boy be named ambassador. Hell no!

And the husband-wife relationship, to be real, is essentially an economic partnership. A merging of business interests, if you will. Everything else having to do with it is liberal wishy-washy myth.

In sum, people like us and our business partners who know how to get things done are entitled to parlay that success into the political realm - to take and give political jobs as we see fit for ourselves and our partners.

Now, applying that same logic to Leonel and his wife ... um ... um ... um. Tony, help me out here buddy.

 

[BushBaby]

"Sigh" Typical!
You can't defend her lack of accountabilty. You and your ilk just want to defend her because she has a vagina!

Sigh" Typical!
He can't defend the argument I was putting forward so he changed the argument to one of a sexual context!! He probably can't read that in NONE of my posts did I refer to her (the First Lady to be) accountablity or lack thereof, so how can I be defending it?? I DID refer to her ability to 'THINK' & give advice to her husband - the President - but made absolutely NO reference to her "holding a position" in this forthcoming Government.

Once again, TonyC has got his facts wrong & is arguing for the SAKE of being a protagonist. What a pity, with a little bit of diligence & attention to the facts at hand, he could be quite an effective debator!!

Porfio,
Your comments are a little way off the original subject of this thread so I will respond either direct or by opening up a new thread - shortly!! - Grahame.

 

[Tony C]

Now, applying that same logic to Leonel and his wife ... um ... um ... um. Tony, help me out here buddy.

Nope! Ain't gonna do it!

 

[Chirimoya]

Nope! Ain't gonna do it!

But you gotta laff, dontcha, Tone?

Chiri

 

[Tony C]

But you gotta laff, dontcha, Tone?

Chiri

Always do!

 

[trina]

I'm going to take Tony's side on this.

As he has mentioned in other threads, all of you people live in a fantasyland. You are all out of touch with reality. Reality is not a golden field of poppies. Really, you all make me want to laugh. No, to puke. Reality is a dish best served cold. Only some of us - those of us preordained - are entitled to know that which is true reality.

In debating, as in life, there are only winners and losers. And you all are losers. Middle ground or compromise is for the weak. You democrats, liberals and other assorted commies live in that "gray area" that Clinton loved so much. People like me and GWB know that there can be no middle ground. There is only right and wrong, and my side is always right. Discussions for englightenment sake are for woosies.

As Tony's and my hero, Ayn Rand, once said, "you losers all suck."

And, as Tony showed us with the above post, if it becomes necessary to hammer-home the absolute correctness of an argument, the throwing of a mysogonistic bomb may be appropriate (a lesson learned from the now-retired XR) for the sake of victory of truth.

In regard to Leonel's wife, know this: People like us - people who accomplish, who take that which is ours- are entitled to more than regular people. Take the American ambassador, for example, as Tony did recently. He may be a Puerto Rican tigueraje who bought his position with contributions to the Bush campaign, but those are the rules of the game. Power and authority go to the people who know how to take it. Should a shoeshine boy be named ambassador. Hell no!

And the husband-wife relationship, to be real, is essentially an economic partnership. A merging of business interests, if you will. Everything else having to do with it is liberal wishy-washy myth.

In sum, people like us and our business partners who know how to get things done are entitled to parlay that success into the political realm - to take and give political jobs as we see fit for ourselves and our partners.

Now, applying that same logic to Leonel and his wife ... um ... um ... um. Tony, help me out here buddy.

You gotta love this guy...

 

[deelt]

Are you serious? Since when has nepotism NOT existed in DR? Tell me a time and I'll give you a response. This is the BEST CASE SCENARIO the fact that the person in question is actually EDUCATED and (proven) COMPETENT to play an important role.

On the baby raising when looking at families within in their social class a nanny typically raises the children. Yet being a working mother does not absolve her from being a good mother. Laura Bush stayed at home and her daughters still obtain a police record. That is neither here nor there.

May I suggest that as a female in the 21st century we need to be more progressive.

Sorry to interject and disrupt your lovely conversation, but wouldn't giving her any sort of function be nepotistic, problematic and subject to suspicion from all fronts?

He wouldn't do that, would he?

Shouldn't she be at home anyway raising the baby??????????????????

 

[trina]

Are you serious? Since when has nepotism NOT existed in DR? Tell me a time and I'll give you a response. This is the BEST CASE SCENARIO the fact that the person in question is actually EDUCATED and (proven) COMPETENT to play an important role.

On the baby raising when looking at families within in their social class a nanny typically raises the children. Yet being a working mother does not absolve her from being a good mother. Laura Bush stayed at home and her daughters still obtain a police record. That is neither here nor there.

May I suggest that as a female in the 21st century we need to be more progressive.

Deelt, may I suggest you turn on your sarcasm meter? Thus the at the end of JJ's post and the selection of words.