Aggressive Beach Harassment in Cabarete

[Castellamonte]

The 'problem' as I see it is that overpriced or crappy restaurants, aggressive beach vendors, shady car dealers, truly bad hotels and others of this ilk prey on the tourist who is relatively new to the area without any concern as to if those tourists will ever return to continue contributions to the coffers. The cause is an unfounded (and very uneducated [IMHO]) belief that tourists are like water...they seem to run forever and ever. However, those who are savvy to this island and the real needs of tourists soon realize that even water doesn't run forever. If you don't work it, it won't happen.

Those who fail to grok this are those who will fail. Be they restaurants, bars, casinos, beach hawkers or even elements as large as entire communities. They all fail eventually. When they fail it is because they failed to realize client acquisition is the single most expensive aspect of any marketing expense and (strangely) the easiest to fritter away.

Cabarete will only realize the 'problem' they have (individually and collectively) when it is too late. Why? Because the mentality of the country is 'hoy' and not 'ma?ana' (today not tomorrow). In exceptionally few places in this country have I discovered an attempt to worry about tomorrow (e.g. 'returning clients') versus what is available today. Strangely, it's not the economy or economic conditions causing this as it seems to be endemic in the very culture of the country (and equally strangely infective).

"If I can get a few hundred pesos today I am happy", says one Dominican, even though in doing so he will forego the opportunity to get thousands of pesos 'tomorrow'. (true story)

My two pesos worth...

 

[frank12]

Absolutely, this is definitely the mentality here on this island. And it's extremely unfortunate, however.

The 'problem' as I see it is that overpriced or crappy restaurants, aggressive beach vendors, shady car dealers, truly bad hotels and others of this ilk prey on the tourist who is relatively new to the area without any concern as to if those tourists will ever return to continue contributions to the coffers. The cause is an unfounded (and very uneducated [IMHO]) belief that tourists are like water...they seem to run forever and ever. However, those who are savvy to this island and the real needs of tourists soon realize that even water doesn't run forever. If you don't work it, it won't happen.

Those who fail to grok this are those who will fail. Be they restaurants, bars, casinos, beach hawkers or even elements as large as entire communities. They all fail eventually. When they fail it is because they failed to realize client acquisition is the single most expensive aspect of any marketing expense and (strangely) the easiest to fritter away.

Cabarete will only realize the 'problem' they have (individually and collectively) when it is too late. Why? Because the mentality of the country is 'hoy' and not 'ma?ana' (today not tomorrow). In exceptionally few places in this country have I discovered an attempt to worry about tomorrow (e.g. 'returning clients') versus what is available today. Strangely, it's not the economy or economic conditions causing this as it seems to be endemic in the very culture of the country (and equally strangely infective).

"If I can get a few hundred pesos today I am happy", says one Dominican, even though in doing so he will forego the opportunity to get thousands of pesos 'tomorrow'. (true story)

My two pesos worth...

 

[DRob]

Let's have a bit of perspective here. We are looking at this from the viewpoint of first-worlders with enough time and resources to compose posts about (and in many cases, while in) a country where the average annual income is less than a middle-class wage earner in the US may make in a month.

A little cushion gives one the opportunity to start thinking about the future. The Carnegies and Vanderbilts of the world made investments that wouldn't pan out for decades or more, but that was fine because their emphasis was on future generations. That same mindset might not apply to someone sharing a shack and wondering where his next meal might be coming from.

I'm not trying to romanticize being poor, but I'm not willing to stand by and let anyone demonize folk for it, either.

That said, I agree that the biz community (which should know better) probably needs to work more collectively, as all they are doing otherwise is cannibalizing whatever market they have, which is not at all beneficial.

The 'problem' as I see it is that overpriced or crappy restaurants, aggressive beach vendors, shady car dealers, truly bad hotels and others of this ilk prey on the tourist who is relatively new to the area without any concern as to if those tourists will ever return to continue contributions to the coffers. The cause is an unfounded (and very uneducated [IMHO]) belief that tourists are like water...they seem to run forever and ever. However, those who are savvy to this island and the real needs of tourists soon realize that even water doesn't run forever. If you don't work it, it won't happen.

Those who fail to grok this are those who will fail. Be they restaurants, bars, casinos, beach hawkers or even elements as large as entire communities. They all fail eventually. When they fail it is because they failed to realize client acquisition is the single most expensive aspect of any marketing expense and (strangely) the easiest to fritter away.

Cabarete will only realize the 'problem' they have (individually and collectively) when it is too late. Why? Because the mentality of the country is 'hoy' and not 'ma?ana' (today not tomorrow). In exceptionally few places in this country have I discovered an attempt to worry about tomorrow (e.g. 'returning clients') versus what is available today. Strangely, it's not the economy or economic conditions causing this as it seems to be endemic in the very culture of the country (and equally strangely infective).

"If I can get a few hundred pesos today I am happy", says one Dominican, even though in doing so he will forego the opportunity to get thousands of pesos 'tomorrow'. (true story)

My two pesos worth...

 

[Poncho]

Find a local Security Guard and approach him with the idea of hiring him part time, for a set amount. Put a sign outside indicating entry is for customers only in Spanish. NO TRESPASSING. It works everywhere else in the DR I feel it will work for you. Good Luck Frank. P.S. my name is also, Frank

 

[Castellamonte]

Let's have a bit of perspective here. <snip>

I'm not trying to romanticize being poor, but I'm not willing to stand by and let anyone demonize folk for it, either.

<snip>

I don't believe anyone has been demonizing the Domincans in general in this post and I also do not want to drag this discussion into the morass of discussing whether the 'haves' versus the 'have nots' are the problem. Neither one is true. The Dominicans are, by and large, some of the most generous, socially caring people I have ever had the opportunity to meet. That doesn't detract from the fact that they also seldom seem to worry about tomorrow much more than is absolutely necessary, regardless of their personal wealth or lack thereof.

But as you point out, the businesses and tourism sector in communities such as Cabarete are where the solution to the problem lies. It's up to them to provide the longer term view because the individual person (typically) won't do it.

 

[frank12]

Here is a true story; but before i begin the story, allow me to give you a little background of the owner of Jose O'Shay's, Big Frank. Big Frank (not to be confused with me, Skinny Frank) opened Jose O'shay's 9 years ago. like many people on this forum, he visited this island and fell in love with the place. I was fortunate enough to meet him several years before i started working for him, when i first started driving up from Bonao. At the time, I was living in Bonao (where my family is from) and drove up on the weekends to watch college football on Saturdays; like i've mentined before, I attended Ohio State University and played American football in Norway. In Bonao, there was no place for me to catch OSU games (unless they were being televised on national TV), so i had no choice but to drive to Jose O'Shay's to catch them.

Big Frank is such a warm, friendly, and generous man that, on top of buying drinks for nearly everyone he meets, he invites anyone over to his table and will regal them with fascinating, intriguing, bizarre stories of life in the Caribbean (Big Frank has another Irish pub in Red Hook Marina on ST. Thomas Island, where he's been there for about 15 or 16 years.)

Anyway, about 6 years ago, when Central Bank was paying 21% interest on CD's, Big Frank called a meeting for all of his employees-- about 28 employees in total. He offered all of them the unique opportunity to enjoy the opportunity to make 21% interest from Central Bank because he knew that it wouldn't last for long. Since no one had any savings, he offered to put a large sum of money into a 3 year CD that was currently paying 21% interest. He explained to them that he would simply take out a small portion of thier paychecks every month in order to pay for this. He clearly explained to everyone how much would be taken out, for how long, and exactly what they could expect at the end of every 12 months, for 3 years straight. it was all spelled out on paper so that everyone could easily understand it, and so that everyone knew what to expect, and when to expect it.

My question now is this: How many of the 28 employees took him up on the offer?

I don't believe anyone has been demonizing the Domincans in general in this post and I also do not want to drag this discussion into the morass of discussing whether the 'haves' versus the 'have nots' are the problem. Neither one is true. The Dominicans are, by and large, some of the most generous, socially caring people I have ever had the opportunity to meet. That doesn't detract from the fact that they also seldom seem to worry about tomorrow much more than is absolutely necessary, regardless of their personal wealth or lack thereof.

But as you point out, the businesses and tourism sector in communities such as Cabarete are where the solution to the problem lies. It's up to them to provide the longer term view because the individual person (typically) won't do it.

 

[mike l]

A the end of the Day, there are few choices on the North Coast and one of them is Jose Oshay's

I go there every week !

While i was there this weekend I spoke to someone who used to have a DR1 account and she said she closed it because "if people who come to the DR can't afford a $10 hamburger they should stay at home because they can't afford to travel "

Direct quote

 

[jrhartley]

you cant close dr1 accounts, I tried once - I can think of better uses for 10 dollars than a hamburger eventhough I could afford it

 

[mike l]

you cant close dr1 accounts, I tried once - I can think of better uses for 10 dollars than a hamburger eventhough I could afford it

Gee sorry ....I would never be as rude to call someone a liar.

I can't believe someone even responded to a better way to spend $10 and I am surprised I even responded.

No Pie 4 U !!!

 

[bri777]

My question now is this: How many of the 28 employees took him up on the offer?

prolly zero?

now my question is: how much were their wages and could they afford to take out some pesos?

still a very nice gesture!

Manu

 

[Rattus_Rattus]

A the end of the Day, there are few choices on the North Coast and one of them is Jose Oshay's

I go there every week !

While i was there this weekend I spoke to someone who used to have a DR1 account and she said she closed it because "if people who come to the DR can't afford a $10 hamburger they should stay at home because they can't afford to travel "

Direct quote

Sooo she say that if we dont come over to the the tourist traps were the prices are highest and spend all of our money without thinking twice, we should stay away from the island?! She sounds like a crystalclear Darwin award candidate.

Thanks for posting her comments Mike l, you made me laugh.

 

[Castellamonte]

Likely an exceptionally small number, at or approaching zero. It was a nice gesture and I've made the same offer to many of my employees over the decade I've lived here with similar results. But, again to be fair, likely the mentality of not wanting to invest in the future is bound by two things Dominicans in general do not have control of; Fairness (e.g equal treatment) and Predictability (e.g justice). Would you invest in something knowing you had no equal treatment or justice? I sure wouldn't!

 

[Castellamonte]

A the end of the Day, there are few choices... <snip>

While i was there this weekend I spoke to someone who used to have a DR1 account and she said she closed it because "if people who come to the DR can't afford a $10 hamburger they should stay at home because they can't afford to travel "

Wow, that poor lady is unfortunately totally ignorant to the fact that many savvy restaurants (and bars) indeed cater to people who actually seek value for their money. To the subtext of this thread, one of this class of people are the professional middle-class Dominicans (lawyers, bankers, accountants, doctors, businessmen/women, etc) who live, work and eat in Cabarete. I know many of them and they wouldn't dream of paying $10 for a standard hamburger, not because they cannot afford it but because it's simply a waste of money. Cabarete will, IMHO, utterly fail if the community caters only to monied foreigners who (apparently) haughtily plop down $10 for a simple fare as this business model has been proven throughout Planet Earth to ultimately fail.

 

[frank12]

Not sure i agree with this logic here. First, if you want to eat 100% Black Angus burger, you'll need to pay around $10. There's no way around this. I suspect many restaurants like Nikki Beach, Murua Mai (in Sosua), Chef Peppers (Santo Domingo), etc. all have their meat imported like we do. As i mentioned before, consistency (with meat) is hard to come by and one never knows the sanitary conditions the meat was handled with on this island, especially since there is no over-sight rules or regualtions on this island that i am aware of, and poorly enforced if they even exist.

All good restaurants in Santo Domingo, Santiago, and here on the North Coast are importing their meat. In our case, we get our Black Angus hamburgers in boxes of 24 from a company out of Michigan. It's 100% Black Angus meat. feel free to stop in and ask for any manager and we'll be happy pull a box out of the freezer and show them to you. It doesn't take but 15 seconds.

Frank

Wow, that poor lady is unfortunately totally ignorant to the fact that many savvy restaurants (and bars) indeed cater to people who actually seek value for their money. To the subtext of this thread, one of this class of people are the professional middle-class Dominicans (lawyers, bankers, accountants, doctors, businessmen/women, etc) who live, work and eat in Cabarete. I know many of them and they wouldn't dream of paying $10 for a standard hamburger, not because they cannot afford it but because it's simply a waste of money. Cabarete will, IMHO, utterly fail if the community caters only to monied foreigners who (apparently) haughtily plop down $10 for a simple fare as this business model has been proven throughout Planet Earth to ultimately fail.

 

[Castellamonte]

I said 'standard hamburger', Frank. A 100% Black Angus hamburger is not in that category in my taxonomy. But, personally, I prefer the standard hamburgers from Martini Bar in Cabarete East over any others I've ever had in Cabarete. It's personal opinion that has nothing to do with cost although they are significantly less expensive than $10.

That said, the issue of how to address the ongoing harassment (or feelings of same) are the topic here.

 

[frank12]

I apologize. i didn't notice "standard hamburger (or i didn't know what you meant by the phrase)." Totally went over my head. Sorry.

Again, I apologize.

Frank

I said 'standard hamburger', Frank. A 100% Black Angus hamburger is not in that category in my taxonomy. But, personally, I prefer the standard hamburgers from Martini Bar in Cabarete East over any others I've ever had in Cabarete. It's personal opinion that has nothing to do with cost although they are significantly less expensive than $10.

That said, the issue of how to address the ongoing harassment (or feelings of same) are the topic here.

 

[donP]

Nothing to worry about...

... one never knows the sanitary conditions the meat was handled with on this island, especially since there is no over-sight rules or regualtions on this island that i am aware of, and poorly enforced if they even exist.

You can choose to believe this:
Pa?s consume carne de mataderos sin controles - Hoy Digital

Or him (Director de Sanidad Animal, doctor Rafael N??ez M.):
Impiden sacrificio de reses enfermas - Hoy Digital

donP

 

[jrhartley]

No Pie 4 U !!!

lol I was pointing out that I asked for my account to be closed once and was not allowed to do so, but was given the advice about what I should do with a stick instead- dr1ers can be so nice

 

[bri777]

.. glad u took the stick option!
Manu

 

[Castellamonte]

DR1ers with respect to how advice is typically given are, by and large, exceptionally rude. But if you get past that "you stupid idiot" approach the real advice is golden. Put your ego in the trash bin and ask your questions...you will get a reliable (virtually bankable) response!