Almost Killed Three Dominicans Sunday Night

[rio2003]

Road Accidents in the DR

I live in a constant state of amazement that there are not more road accidents in the DR. Regardless of what type of vehicle is involved - and of course the poor condition of the roads and inadequate lighting the fact of the matter is that a huge amount of people drive "under the influence".

I have seen people who literally couldn't walk get into their vehicles or astride their moto and weave off into the distance. I find it horrifying that these people are routinely risking theirs and other peoples lives on a regular basis and there does not seem to be any sort of campaigning done from the government or police to improve this, as in other countries.

Rio

 

[Keith R]

Do you actually have statistics? I will be very surprised if the statistics don't show that it is much safer to ride a motorcycle here in the DR than the US - based on the number of miles traveled and the number of riders compared to the number of cars.

There are indeed some sort of statistics kept by someone, as I recall reading more than one DR newspaper account citing government accident statistics.

But I never trusted the stats. All too many accidents in the DR never get reported, and you have to wonder how many of those that do get reported accurately. And given the government's history of playing loose with stats in other areas, you have to wonder how much and in what manner DR accident stats are "massaged." aranoid:

 

[Thandie]

Oh yes I have seen many a drunks jumping behind the wheel.
I just say a silent prayer. Back in Canada I would be calling the police.
What scares me most is seeing babies on motorcycles!
Someone told me that in the drivers manual here it said " if you have over X number of beers drive carefully" ?????????????????? HUH!

 

[cobraboy]

Do you actually have statistics? I will be very surprised if the statistics don't show that it is much safer to ride a motorcycle here in the DR than the US - based on the number of miles traveled and the number of riders compared to the number of cars.

I base this on having riden a substantial amount in both countries. notwithstanding the skew caused by drunks at night without light, it is a fact that Dominican auto drivers are much more aware of motorcycle riders than in the States, and they have to be of course because the majority of miles traveled here everyday is certainly by motorcycle.

Overall safety isn't the issue. The "Gotta Meet Darwin" types are the ones that are a problem.

 

[dv8]

only once we came close to killing motoconcho - coming back from santiago at night, heavy rain. the moto in front of us (no lights, of course) slipped on a hole on fell sideways, miesposo passed it by mare centimeters.
i actually want to mention that i admire driving skills of some dominicans, just last weekend we were on our way back from samana and got stuck in.. well... procession of motos ( all supporting white party), many driving with beers in their hands. i'd be scared to drive in the middle of that mess but miesposo and drivers of few other cars sharing our fate kept their cool. amazing.

 

[Robert]

Ask anyone that regularly rides a motorbike here and has also done the same in the USA or Europe etc. They will tell you with out hesitation, that they have near death experiences almost everyday here.

I have lost count the amount of pasolas etc I have "almost" cleaned up.
Some of the worse accidents I have seen here have involved motorcyclists.

Ignorance is bliss, brain donors are plentiful!

 

[cobraboy]

Ask anyone that regularly rides a motorbike here and has also done the same in the USA or Europe etc. They will tell you with out hesitation, that they have near death experiences almost everyday here.

I have lost count the amount of pasolas etc I have "almost" cleaned up.
Some of the worse accidents I have seen here have involved motorcyclists.

Ignorance is bliss, brain donors are plentiful!

Semi-true, semi-untrue.

Much of the burden of motorcycle safety in borne by the rider, his equipment, his training, skilz, and instincts. From my observations, moto and pasola riders in the DR have little, if any, of these. I can see how there is carnage. Heck, I'm surprised more of those guys weaving in stopped traffic don't drop their scoot and get run over. Even the guys sporting crotch rockets ride like mo-rons. The same could be said for the idiot riders in the US or Europe. Youtube is full of vids of idiots on bike doing idiot things.

The advantage the DR has is that motorcycles are SEEN. They are part of the landscape. A driver in the DR thinks "moto" as he approaches an intersection or pulls into traffic (but may not care). Drivers in the US (can't speak for Europe) don't. The vast majority of bad accidents there involve a car just pulling out without looking. The phrase "loud pipes save lives" is an effort (however statistically ineffective) to mitigate this.

IMO, having ridden a real motorcycle here a LOT in the last month is that if you are properly trained (MSF or MC endorsement, which requires a test), properly attired ("ATGATT"=All The Gear, All The Time"; helmet, riding jacket and pants with reflective, abrasion-resistant fabric or leather with "armor" on the shoulders, back, elbows, hips and knees, and over-the-ankle boots, preferably with additional armor in the ankle area), and ride with proper caution, you are every bit as safe as in the US or Europe, maybe even safer since you are SEEN.

Riding has risks that can be mitigated. Those crazy moto/pasola riders take virtually NO precautions. Big difference. It's hard to compare the typical DR moto guy or gal with a properly attired and trained rider.

 

[amparocorp]

i don't know about the "motorcycles are seen" part being safe. very often when i am riding with a dominican driver motos are "seen" and then ignored. need to pull into traffic and there is a bike coming? so what? pull out. need to turn left into oncoming moto? turn left no problem. i know the driver sees the bike, but he is bigger. same with cars and SUVs or SUV vs. bus. city bus needs to get into your lane? he is coming over even if he knows you are there so get out of the way. very dangerous to be on either side of a bus. i have been in numerous incidents where i suspected that the moto driver would soon be chasing us to kick butt for getting cut off and he would be justified but it didn't happen.

 

[cobraboy]

i don't know about the "motorcycles are seen" part being safe. very often when i am riding with a dominican driver motos are "seen" and then ignored. need to pull into traffic and there is a bike coming? so what? pull out. need to turn left into oncoming moto? turn left no problem. i know the driver sees the bike, but he is bigger. same with cars and SUVs or SUV vs. bus. city bus needs to get into your lane? he is coming over even if he knows you are there so get out of the way. very dangerous to be on either side of a bus. i have been in numerous incidents where i suspected that the moto driver would soon be chasing us to kick butt for getting cut off and he would be justified but it didn't happen.

All true.

One must be alert and anticipate "threats" while on a bike. Be cautiously paranoid, anticipate, control, trust no one in other vehicles to do the right thing, and always give yourself an out. This is part of training.

In the US, I have no idea whether that car ahead sees me or not, and what they might do. In the DR, I'm pretty sure he sees me (because of the distinctive appearance of the headlights if nothing else), and I am pretty sure he may do something erratic. PLUS, my bike accellerates far quicker, and brakes far faster than any cage, bus or truck, much moreso that any moto or pasola. That gives me a significant advantage of having more options of "outs".

Many sports are inherently dangerous (like Sankie Polo). Motorcycling is one of them. Every time I ride, I remember the wise words of my first instructor: "When you hit the starter, you have two minutes to live. How you manage the ride will extend that...".

 

[Keith R]

IMO, having ridden a real motorcycle here a LOT in the last month is that if you are properly trained (MSF or MC endorsement, which requires a test), properly attired ("ATGATT"=All The Gear, All The Time"; helmet, riding jacket and pants with reflective, abrasion-resistant fabric or leather with "armor" on the shoulders, back, elbows, hips and knees, and over-the-ankle boots, preferably with additional armor in the ankle area), and ride with proper caution, you are every bit as safe as in the US or Europe, maybe even safer since you are SEEN.

Riding has risks that can be mitigated. Those crazy moto/pasola riders take virtually NO precautions. Big difference. It's hard to compare the typical DR moto guy or gal with a properly attired and trained rider.

The problem is, the overwhelming majority of moto riders in the DR are not properly trained, not properly attired, do not ride with proper caution, and often don't ride with their light on (if they even have one that works!).

For that matter, far too many Dominican car/truck/bus drivers do not have proper training or caution.

 

[Ricardo900]

IMO, having ridden a real motorcycle here a LOT in the last month is that if you are properly trained (MSF or MC endorsement, which requires a test), properly attired ("ATGATT"=All The Gear, All The Time"; helmet, riding jacket and pants with reflective, abrasion-resistant fabric or leather with "armor" on the shoulders, back, elbows, hips and knees, and over-the-ankle boots, preferably with additional armor in the ankle area), and ride with proper caution, you are every bit as safe as in the US or Europe, maybe even safer since you are SEEN.

Riding has risks that can be mitigated. Those crazy moto/pasola riders take virtually NO precautions. Big difference. It's hard to compare the typical DR moto guy or gal with a properly attired and trained rider.

Spot on,

The training "MSF", protective gear and functioning motorcycle equipment(lights, brakes, horn) many of the times will make the difference between life and death. A lot of mishaps can't be avoided but a lot can be avoided.

There are two types of riders - "The rider that's been down and the rider that's going down"

 

[cobraboy]

I'll say this: my MC riding experience and training has made driving in the DR MUCH easier and safer. I'm "aware" driving a cage the same level as a scoot.

(Except for the occasional cell conversation in the cage...:surprised)

 

[Richard Alberto]

Dam, what's the fun of wearing all that gear in 90 degree weather?

 

[Chip]

Ask anyone that regularly rides a motorbike here and has also done the same in the USA or Europe etc. They will tell you with out hesitation, that they have near death experiences almost everyday here.

I have lost count the amount of pasolas etc I have "almost" cleaned up.
Some of the worse accidents I have seen here have involved motorcyclists.

Ignorance is bliss, brain donors are plentiful!

I find that hard to belive. I do believe that some people that come here every now and then and rent a bike will feel this is the case because they don't understadn the "rules of the road" here. For one, even though car drivers are more aware of bikes, there are other things that they do here that could be construed as threatening, such as passing other cars on a two lane road and making the motorcycle slow down or be pushed all of the way to the right side of the road.

In the States the number one killer of motorcycle riders are other cars, they simply aren't looking for them. I have had cars pull out right in front of me and scared the blank out of me.

 

[Skippy1]

the most dangerous thing on a moto is the driver take it away and you can be assured it will not harm anyone. If this was practiced here it would instantly reduce the number of accidents. follow that with Guaguas and public cars and you will have a population explosion like you have never seen.

I have travelled a bit in my time and can't recall any reported deaths from a collision between two donkeys at full speed.......maybe not everything is progress.

Skippy1

 

[Robert]

cobraboy and chip, have you ever spent anytime riding around Santo Domingo on a motorbike? My guess is no.

As I said, just ask anyone that has <b>"actually"</b> spent lots of time riding around the DR and the USA etc.

 

[Chip]

cobraboy and chip, have you ever spent anytime riding around Santo Domingo on a motorbike? My guess is no.

As I said, just ask anyone that has <b>"actually"</b> spent lots of time riding around the DR and the USA etc.

Geez, I suppose all those miles I have in the US and nearly 2 years and 10k miles here don't count?

 

[Chip]

I would like to add that I have done most of my motorcycle riding in the Ciba region, with a trip to the north coast and Jarabacoa as well. Most of my miles are done in Santiago.

No I haven't ridden in the capital, it may be a different animal alltogether. I personally take back roads when possible to avoid major multilane roads at peak rush hour and typically don't feel as if my lfe is in danger, ie I have relatively few close calls.

 

[cobraboy]

I've been in SDQ plenty. NYC, too. The traffic in both suck, and I hate driving in a cage there. I wouldn't drive a motersickle there. As a rider, I can choose where top ride. oute choice is part of risk management.

Another danger factor motos/pasola riders have is they are generally slower that the prevailing traffic. They are nit able to "function" like a car in traffic. I can and do. That tilts the safety much more in my favor vis-a-vis slower motos. In fact. I get "respect" from cars the 800,000 moto riders don't..

Most folks without much time and training on real motorcycles perhaps cannot understand my point. There is a HUGE difference between. 50-150cc moto/pasola and a powerful motorcycle. .

 

[cobraboy]

I've been in SDQ plenty(I'm on Limcoln now on the blackberry).. NYC, too. The traffic in both suck, and I hate driving in a cage there. I wouldn't drive a motersickle there. As a rider, I can choose where top ride. oute choice is part of risk management.

Another danger factor motos/pasola riders have is they are generally slower that the prevailing traffic. They are nit able to "function" like a car in traffic. I can and do. That tilts the safety much more in my favor vis-a-vis slower motos. In fact. I get "respect" from cars the 800,000 moto riders don't..

Most folks without much time and training on real motorcycles perhaps cannot understand my point. There is a HUGE difference between. 50-150cc moto/pasola and a powerful motorcycle. .