- Thread starter hicksy
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Assualt and Robbery in Sosua
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Agreed, relevant topic being resurected this time of year.
I see no need to censor the thread due to age, 'specially after a page of responses.
Safe sledding!
tambo'
I myself was a little curious why it had been resurrected as well when I looked at the original dates, but I have noticed that it sometimes happens in this forum.
Like Greydreaad, I wanted to comment on some of the original posts, but because it was over a year that those opinions were posted I felt, I would keep my thoughts to myself. But now that someone else has taken the time to do just that I guess I can weigh in a little as well. Suggesting killing someone, as retribution to a robbery of a moto, is definitely a bit extreme, especially when it had been stated that the victim was alright. Furthermore, when a person at the time brought that up, I was amazed at how the whole community basically turned on the person, basically saying that is the appropriate way of dealing with people who would steal.
All I could do was shake my head, and wonder what some are thinking, not to mention that if for a moment something like that happened, how do you know you even had the right culprit?? It would not be hard to imagine, that some poor soul in Sosua Abajo ends up with the moto, thinking he got a good deal, because he has all the original paperwork etc. and he is riding around town, and the police or someone sees him, because of the reward he is arrested (if he's lucky), or beaten to an inch of his life, simply because he was in possession of a stolen moto. Plus not to mention since it is a relatively poor country, that someone including the police (which I gather many have very little faith in anyway), would be willing to lie about someone else by accusing them, simply for the reward.
So I hope that those that voiced those sentiments over a year ago, either has had a change of heart in regards to their opinion at that time, or in fact they were being facetious all along. Now I am sure some will try and label me as a bleeding heart liberal or worst, but I do believe in law and order, because I believe they are necessary for any society. But any punishment should also fit the crime, not exceed it. Because otherwise what makes you any better than the original criminal?
Like Greydreaad, I wanted to comment on some of the original posts, but because it was over a year that those opinions were posted I felt, I would keep my thoughts to myself. But now that someone else has taken the time to do just that I guess I can weigh in a little as well. Suggesting killing someone, as retribution to a robbery of a moto, is definitely a bit extreme, especially when it had been stated that the victim was alright. Furthermore, when a person at the time brought that up, I was amazed at how the whole community basically turned on the person, basically saying that is the appropriate way of dealing with people who would steal.
All I could do was shake my head, and wonder what some are thinking, not to mention that if for a moment something like that happened, how do you know you even had the right culprit?? It would not be hard to imagine, that some poor soul in Sosua Abajo ends up with the moto, thinking he got a good deal, because he has all the original paperwork etc. and he is riding around town, and the police or someone sees him, because of the reward he is arrested (if he's lucky), or beaten to an inch of his life, simply because he was in possession of a stolen moto. Plus not to mention since it is a relatively poor country, that someone including the police (which I gather many have very little faith in anyway), would be willing to lie about someone else by accusing them, simply for the reward.
So I hope that those that voiced those sentiments over a year ago, either has had a change of heart in regards to their opinion at that time, or in fact they were being facetious all along. Now I am sure some will try and label me as a bleeding heart liberal or worst, but I do believe in law and order, because I believe they are necessary for any society. But any punishment should also fit the crime, not exceed it. Because otherwise what makes you any better than the original criminal?
Only problem is when someone sees it as having a new post & opens page #1.
Within the last five minutes, someone sent me a MSN message from Sosua "I was planning to stay here tonight but see there have been two more robberies so I'm going home before dark"... and sent me a link to this thread.
i told him the posts he was reading were from 2008. so, now he's staying in sosua for a few drinks tonite.
Within the last five minutes, someone sent me a MSN message from Sosua "I was planning to stay here tonight but see there have been two more robberies so I'm going home before dark"... and sent me a link to this thread.
i told him the posts he was reading were from 2008. so, now he's staying in sosua for a few drinks tonite.
The victim's life was threaten with a deadly weapon (A Knife).
The fact that the victim did not get killed, mained, cut up, etc., is in material.
The victim was lucky that time, maybe the next victim of the same robbers will not be as lucky, and then perhaps you will have a different opinion.
One thing about the suggestion saying that they hope they are killed, it's the ultimate rehabilitation program, 100% effected.
If YOU were the victim and later these same guys came at you again, will you hope to be lucky a second time, happy knowing they did not hurt you the first time?
Don
see, what had happened was...
I didn't quote post #2 (from a year ago) for the purpose of getting on anyone's nerves. I went back to it after reading the pages which followed because it seemed to perfectly sum up the majority opinion of the responders. I merely made an appeal to reason in the matter of how that post appeared to have been taken (to some, quite literally) by those who read and responded to it.
I didn't believe that the poster (Robert) meant literally "kill them". As I read more responses I began to fear that I could be wrong as the sentiment was being echoed and elaborated upon and defended in it's worst possible context. The thread started shortly before the season of giving, last year and here we are a year later looking for a possible softening of the heart or some enlightened retrospective and only finding anger and fear. The latter of which often tends to cloud judgement when it comes to objectivity when considering the relative severity of the punishment vs. that of the crime. I hope that there's enough good will left inside us all to overcome the temptation to circle the wagons. That's all.
Happy Holidays to all of you. Here's wishing you a safe, healthy and prosperous New Year!
I didn't quote post #2 (from a year ago) for the purpose of getting on anyone's nerves. I went back to it after reading the pages which followed because it seemed to perfectly sum up the majority opinion of the responders. I merely made an appeal to reason in the matter of how that post appeared to have been taken (to some, quite literally) by those who read and responded to it.
I didn't believe that the poster (Robert) meant literally "kill them". As I read more responses I began to fear that I could be wrong as the sentiment was being echoed and elaborated upon and defended in it's worst possible context. The thread started shortly before the season of giving, last year and here we are a year later looking for a possible softening of the heart or some enlightened retrospective and only finding anger and fear. The latter of which often tends to cloud judgement when it comes to objectivity when considering the relative severity of the punishment vs. that of the crime. I hope that there's enough good will left inside us all to overcome the temptation to circle the wagons. That's all.
Happy Holidays to all of you. Here's wishing you a safe, healthy and prosperous New Year!
Hey Rob you've my vote
Never mind all the pussy posts above.That's sad to hearLet's hope they find them and kill them.
Fortunately in a civilized society, we don't decide our punishments on what ifs; or could have happeneds. No one is suggesting the guilty party shouldn't be appropriately punished, but suggesting the death penalty for an armed robbery, is to say the least extreme.
It's one thing in the heat of a crime, while acting instinctively if the punishment becomes severe, the example used earlier by a poster when he was attacked with a machete, that's a life and death situation, deadly physical force is certainly appropriate in that circumstance. In the case here where the victim was obviously frightened, but went unharmed, and was no longer in danger, if you caught the person, the death penalty would certainly not be appropriate. To suggest it borders somewhat on the barbaric side, and I thought we as a people have advanced past that.
The first person who mentioned he the ladrone should be killed, I felt his statement was made tongue in cheek. However when a new poster at the time objected to the reference whether made half heartedly or not, many other esteemed members of the forum, chimed in, and it became quite obvious that they weren't speaking tongue in cheek. The new member then made a comment that she feared the mob mentality that was being demonstrated more so than the ladrone. Can't say that I disagree with her assessment. Mobs and or people operating with that type of mentality do tend to act irrationally. Again I hope that those who supported that mentality at the time, have re-thought their stance.
As far as myself being a victim, well I would never consider myself a victim of anything, but having said that, I have faced what some would consider dangerous situations before in my life (quite a few before I ever set foot in this country, where quite frankly I have considered myself still very fortunate to be here), even one that I did describe here a few months back on DR1, when I described a situation when my apartment was entered about 4:30 am in Sosua, by a burglar who by the way was armed with a knife as he entered my bedroom where I was sleeping, fortunately I did wake up and therefore prevented myself from being injured, and I didn't nor would I ever suggest that he be killed.
Hey but to each his own, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation, mostly because of the reasons I outlined in my original post in this thread. Again if you ever have the opportunity to dispense justice as you have outlined, I just pray that you got the right guy, because if not God help you, and your conscience (especially if it was not for something more valuable than a moto).
So when someone has a different world view about something we have to resort to classifying them in a negative context?? That is certainly mature.
It's the way of it (see the former "greatest deliberative body in the world" - the U.S. Senate for inspiration. Or would that be desperation?)
Unfortunately, some people think death is appropriate for a petty robbery. All we can do is be very thankful they aren't the ones in charge, and elect people who will make sure it stays that way.
I sometimes wonder whether this is the 21st or 12th century.... :bored::bored::bored:
Your robber and the one of the moto, I sincerely doubt it was their "First" and/or their "Last" robbery. Some people are not fortunate enough to wake up and prevent themselves from being killed or injured by "JUST" a robber......
Questions Later
Very often the PN do immediate "justice" in an ?intercambio de disparos?.
Doesn't apply here.
Very often the PN do immediate "justice" in an ?intercambio de disparos?.
this is going to be controversial
OK .. now I do not want to really upset people but I feel that I have to report the stuff that I hear in the Capital now... about those "foreigners" who live in the beach communities... So here it is...
"the foreigners are a polluting element... they come here, the old men, and corrupt our young women... they support prostitution..... they bring in drugs.... many of them are on the run from their own police..... they are thieves...the young men cannot find women to be with because the women are all looking for a foreigner."
now I know that we all can get defensive about these sort of statements and say "WE are not" but there have been probably MORE of "Them" than there are of "US"...
so I think that if we really want to have the support of the Dominicans, really want to be a welcome element in the country, really want to be cherished and protected and welcomed....
we have a long long road ahead of us
OK .. now I do not want to really upset people but I feel that I have to report the stuff that I hear in the Capital now... about those "foreigners" who live in the beach communities... So here it is...
"the foreigners are a polluting element... they come here, the old men, and corrupt our young women... they support prostitution..... they bring in drugs.... many of them are on the run from their own police..... they are thieves...the young men cannot find women to be with because the women are all looking for a foreigner."
now I know that we all can get defensive about these sort of statements and say "WE are not" but there have been probably MORE of "Them" than there are of "US"...
so I think that if we really want to have the support of the Dominicans, really want to be a welcome element in the country, really want to be cherished and protected and welcomed....
we have a long long road ahead of us
We bring in drugs....we are the thieves.....that's the best laugh I've had all week.
I think there wires are REALLY crossed.
I think there wires are REALLY crossed.
I am not going to get into this discussion for a wide variety of reasons, but primarily because it is fruitless. People already have their own minds made up and there is little anyone can say or do to change those opinions.
However, I have to react to one small piece of Annie's comment. That being that "the young men cannot find women to be with because the women are all looking for a foreigner."
Please, if these young men really wanted to establish stable relationships with "their" women there would be no prostitution.
In almost every instance, the prostitutes are doing the only job they know how to do, in order to support their children. They have been left high and dry by their Dominican "husbands", and they find themselves in the unfortunate situation of supporting their families by doing the one thing they know will make money for them.
We can argue until we are blue in the face about which came first, but in my opinion, the social conditions created that particular job long before any tourist ever considered the possibility.
However, I have to react to one small piece of Annie's comment. That being that "the young men cannot find women to be with because the women are all looking for a foreigner."
Please, if these young men really wanted to establish stable relationships with "their" women there would be no prostitution.
In almost every instance, the prostitutes are doing the only job they know how to do, in order to support their children. They have been left high and dry by their Dominican "husbands", and they find themselves in the unfortunate situation of supporting their families by doing the one thing they know will make money for them.
We can argue until we are blue in the face about which came first, but in my opinion, the social conditions created that particular job long before any tourist ever considered the possibility.
I agree with both Catcher and Way to Go... I do think that the fact that Dominican men have historically treated their women badly has created the "market" for foreigners.. and certainly it is not foreigners who are filling all the cabanas.... etc etc etc
also with WaytoGo that the Dominicans are now and have been historically in the US, very very involved in the cocaine trade......
just giving you the stuff I have heard....our fairly sullied reputation
which may or may not be justly deserved.
also with WaytoGo that the Dominicans are now and have been historically in the US, very very involved in the cocaine trade......
just giving you the stuff I have heard....our fairly sullied reputation
which may or may not be justly deserved.
One question, who raises these "bad" Dominican men is it not the women? The women are supposed to be the corner stone of society and if they do a bad job then their kids are also going to be messed up!!
Don't blame it all on the men, it's the society.
Don't blame it all on the men, it's the society.
And when you hear these things especially those things that are not justly deserved as you put it, what do you say to them???
Or do you remain silent, allowing your silence to possibly be interpreted by some as some form of agreement??
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