Beauty and the beast

[woofsback]

I don't think Dominicans are any worse than Amercans or any other country for that matter. I think it very much depends on where one lives. I feel every bit as safe here in Santiago as we felt in Orlando FL.

it's the same all over the world....every tourist and ex-pat won't go to certain areas of the dominican the same way they wouldn't go to "certain areas" in thier own country..

ever see the stories about chinese guy goes crazy and kills school children for no reason except he's insane
ever see the shootings in a mc donalds...market
terrorist bombings
gang fights
husbands killing thier wifes

note to all:
this is in EVERY country including the most civilized (so to speak)
the difference here is that NO ONE trusts the police so they have no where to go for help..which leads many to be afraid.

basic principal in life is to respect ev1...this will cut down the number of enemies you have...as for random killings...no one can predict these....

maybe i'm wrong....but i feel if you show the people that regardless of skin colour or station in life...if you treat them equal...they will try to treat you the same

 

[Matilda]

I think I just read that 79 were killed yesterday in one city in Mexico.

If you look at DR violence, the saddest of course is that which involves children, usually together with their moms. Pure machoism. This is generational, societal, anthropological, and will take decades to reduce. (I do think that some of the music feeds this sort of thinking)
Then there is the criminal element. THe "I want what you have" element. That is dangerous to those who are not careful, or those who flaunt what they have. It is certain that the country is not at all like it used to be. Thirty years ago much of what we see today was unheard of. Crimes such as experienced by Matilda and others were almost unheard of.
I do feel that the lack of solid institutions are the root cause of much of the violence:
No Police
No Justice system
Plus a tradition of "I have a friend in a high place" or the eternal "I am just a poor father of a family"...

Wish I could be more positive.

HB

Totally agree Hillbilly, plus those with money, if they feel you might be about to take it away from them, or are doing something which may affect them, they can commit appalling crimes and pay to get away with them - again the lack of institutions which work. Also for me it is this amazingly generous spirit, especially amongst the poor, juxtaoposed with the violence. The two just do not seem to go together.

 

[Seamonkey]

The following incident happened very close to my home, in a very small town. Straight out of a horror film.

Decapitated bus passenger, man was 'totally calm' during attack - The Globe and Mail

So, it's not just the DR, Mexico or Columbia.

 

[Chip]

For those who think Dominicans are inherrently violent, ponder the violence in the US if we had the same type of non existent police force. Fact is, generally speaking, Dominicans are much, much, much less confrontational that Americans and gringos in general.

Unfortunately though, in the very poor areas drugs and alcohol play a large role in the violence. Also, too, in the tourist areas like Juan Dolio etc, there has been a breakdown in the family values that you won't find in other areas. There is a direct correlation because this and crime.

 

[dv8]

where do i start? mat, violence and cruelty are not limited to DR only and not even to latin america or americas in general. it is enough to look at 20th century to find plenty of atrocities worldwide: concentration camps, hunger in ukraine, massacre in rwanda, genocide in cambodia, war in the balkans, conflict in chechnya. i could multiply examples and quote news from nearly every country in the world.

i see folks complaining about crime in DR and how horrible life is in here but it is such exaggeration. would you rather live in sierra leone? or iraq? some should really open their eyes and look a bit further than their own butt’s location.

people say that everyone has a spark of good in them – stalin loved children, hitler was very kind to animals. but bertold brecht said that hitler could make a nice SS team out of twelve apostles and he was correct. with proper conditioning and in the right set of circumstances even mother theresa would be ripping apart ethiopian orphans. there is a reason why we have so many seemingly normal people willing to kill others for the sake of religion, race or politics. hell, even many dr1ers foam at their mouth shouting: “kill!” each time we talk about thief or murder. nearly everyone would kill to protect their loved ones or their country. and some who remain calm and collected could be easily convinced to exterminate others by “an accident, an illness, a violent change of fortune – or of the weather” - to paraphrase schopenhauer...

there are hardly any crimes of the most crazed psychopath that cannot be easily duplicated by a normal, kind family man. "evil is no faceless stranger, living in a distant neighborhood. evil has a wholesome, hometown face, with merry eyes and an open smile. evil walks among us, wearing a mask which looks like all our faces".

 

[Lambada]

Totally agree Hillbilly, plus those with money, if they feel you might be about to take it away from them, or are doing something which may affect them, they can commit appalling crimes and pay to get away with them - again the lack of institutions which work. Also for me it is this amazingly generous spirit, especially amongst the poor, juxtaoposed with the violence. The two just do not seem to go together.

So.........maybe if those of us who extol this generous spirit, which we all recognise, were to stop doing so and maybe if we encouraged LESS generosity of spirit, then the parlous state of the institutions would become obvious more rapidly........in other words, is the generous spirit of the locals being used as a mask to hide institutional frailty?

Like HB, I'm not very optimistic about the future strengthening of institutions here. Maybe the better thing to do would be to hasten the pendulum swing to the bottom so that something good might arise from the ashes? It might happen naturally anyway as the DR moves from being less of a tribal type society (caring for tribe members) to a more nuclear society. And if global economic issues continue to worsen the lot of the average Dominican this coming year, then that generosity of spirit could be severely challenged.

 

[Chip]

With all due respect to someone who is raising young children in this country for a future here I am not hoping for an "uprising" of any sort. This will merely be a chance to change one corrupt system for another. And at what cost? Propbably loss of life and freedom.

At any rate there are few other "models" of LA or caribbean countries that are "where" we need to be. Look at PR and the Virgin Is.; US protectorates and yet not too far ahead of us - and that is with US intervention. If they didn't have that they would be where we are.

A change to the system has to come from within; by the people of this country as they learn as children that they should expect more from their gov't.

 

[RacerX]

I think I just read that 79 were killed yesterday in one city in Mexico.

If you look at DR violence, the saddest of course is that which involves children, usually together with their moms. Pure machoism. This is generational, societal, anthropological, and will take decades to reduce. (I do think that some of the music feeds this sort of thinking)
Then there is the criminal element. THe "I want what you have" element. That is dangerous to those who are not careful, or those who flaunt what they have. It is certain that the country is not at all like it used to be. Thirty years ago much of what we see today was unheard of. Crimes such as experienced by Matilda and others were almost unheard of.
I do feel that the lack of solid institutions are the root cause of much of the violence:
No Police
No Justice system
Plus a tradition of "I have a friend in a high place" or the eternal "I am just a poor father of a family"...

Wish I could be more positive.

HB

I concur. There are organizational failures here that not only allow but permit or encourage the malfeasance you see. And almost all of it economic based masking itself as cultural.

 

[Lando calrisian]

Mi mama los llama gente Bruta
Dominican Republic is a country full of survivors, the offspring of hardy gold thirsty Spaniards who crossed the Atlantic, tough, starved Africans in bondage and native americans broken, battered and betrayed after living an idylic existence for generations = gente bruta.


After the annexation from Spain in the 1860, there we're hundreds of men at arms looking to fight and of course with the Spaniards gone, they schmucks fought each other until Trujillo stamped them out, gente bruta.

I say watch your back, keep your nose clean, mouth shut and you'll keep the gente bruta at bay. Ser ma tigere k lo tigere.

 

[Chirimoya]

With all due respect to someone who is raising young children in this country for a future here I am not hoping for an "uprising" of any sort. This will merely be a chance to change one corrupt system for another. And at what cost? Propbably loss of life and freedom.

At any rate there are few other "models" of LA or caribbean countries that are "where" we need to be. Look at PR and the Virgin Is.; US protectorates and yet not too far ahead of us - and that is with US intervention. If they didn't have that they would be where we are.

A change to the system has to come from within; by the people of this country as they learn as children that they should expect more from their gov't.

Are you saying that PR is a model the DR should emulate? On the surface it may look like that but ask most Puerto Ricans and they will describe a whole different set of problems - a high crime rate, a large percentage of the population living on welfare and all the associated social problems.

 

[greydread]

Are you saying that PR is a model the DR should emulate? On the surface it may look like that but ask most Puerto Ricans and they will describe a whole different set of problems - a high crime rate, a large percentage of the population living on welfare and all the associated social problems.

I don't think that was his intent. For a real indicator of successful Caribbean countries I would think Netherlands Antilles first. P.R. and V.I. have as many, if not more problems than the D.R. and I think his post indicated that without that "special" status as U.S. territories and with the welfare checks gone they would be in at least as much as, if not more chaos than the D.R. seems to be heading for.

Mexico's biggest problems started when the federales got serious about ending corruption from the top down and fighting the drug gangs in the streets. Gov't officials were getting kidnapped, murdered and the violence spread to their loved ones and noone was off limits. When the gov't. got serious about routing out corrupt officials there was an immediate backlash which is still being felt today.

Not unlike Mexico, once the federal government in the D.R. decides to get serious about fighting corruption and closing down the drug gangs, things will get much worse before they can even start to get better.

 

[Chip]

Are you saying that PR is a model the DR should emulate? On the surface it may look like that but ask most Puerto Ricans and they will describe a whole different set of problems - a high crime rate, a large percentage of the population living on welfare and all the associated social problems.

Exactly:

"US protectorates and yet not too far ahead of us - and that is with US intervention"

 

[Linda Stapleton]

Any links to the prophecies of this pastor africano?

Is he the same pastor who advised Sarah Palin?

2010

The Pastor is called Dr. David Owuar. Here is an article about him and you can enter the Website here.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about Sarah Palin, so can't answer you on that one.

I do have the original prophecy on my computer but don't have an online reference to it. I have asked for any links to this online and if I get a reply I'll let you know. Interesting listening.

 

[Linda Stapleton]

Sorry, that should be spelt OWUOR.

 

[jrhartley]

I dont see any prophecies on his website-

 

[Linda Stapleton]

It looks like it has not been updated for a few months and his prophecy about the DR was fairly recently. I will try to convert the recording I have to a file so that I can send it to anyone who requests it by PM. I do have one request already, which I will be replying to asap.

I thought when the earthquake started yesterday that this was coming about sooner than we thought and now with the red alert.....

Leave it with me and I will work on it.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

I know how I want to answer this, being a Christian, but I can anticipate the responses, so I'll watch how this develops for a while.

For those who don't know, there was recently a very severe warning given by an African Pastor who claims to have received many dreams and visions regarding a judgment from God against the Dominican Republic, predicting a tsunami and huge earthquake (seems principally in the PP region). This is a man with a track record of prediction, I believe. This "judgment" is against the Dominican church, which is claimed to be largely beyond redemption at present, not against those who apparently aren't even trying to avoid behaving in the ways Matilda is describing.

What else did he predict?

 

[Linda Stapleton]

That if the Dominican Church (which means the people in the church) didn't repent and change their ways, God would send a judgement down on them, comprising of a tsunami and earthquake. As the people tried to flee from the wave, heading for the mountain, then a great earthquake would strike, leaving no where to hide. He talks about the Dominican Republic in general but many believe it is centred on the Puerto Plata area.

I had heard a few people (unconnected) talking about the same dream they had had, showing more or less this scenario, with Mount Isabella de Torres always featured, long before this Pastor ever spoke of his visions.....
take what you like and leave the rest.

The church has taken this on board but whether it is too little, too late, who knows....

 

[bob saunders]

That if the Dominican Church (which means the people in the church) didn't repent and change their ways, God would send a judgement down on them, comprising of a tsunami and earthquake. As the people tried to flee from the wave, heading for the mountain, then a great earthquake would strike, leaving no where to hide. He talks about the Dominican Republic in general but many believe it is centred on the Puerto Plata area.

I had heard a few people (unconnected) talking about the same dream they had had, showing more or less this scenario, with Mount Isabella de Torres always featured, long before this Pastor ever spoke of his visions.....
take what you like and leave the rest.

The church has taken this on board but whether it is too little, too late, who knows....

Which Dominican Church would he be referring to, there are many denominations? I predict that he is right but for the wrong reasons, mother nature is controlled by no one, God included. I have a great track record with my predictions.

 

[Linda Stapleton]

The evangelical churches in general, I am not sure if the Catholics have responded at all but there have certainly been large, multi-denominational prayer meetings in Puerto Plata in response to the prediction. I don't know about the rest of the country. "The church", as in believers in Jesus, rather than any particular building or denomination. I would beg to differ about nature, and whether or not God can control it. He may choose not to, but that's a different story.

Have you had any similar warnings etc.? I'd be interested to hear your views.

Coming back to Matilda's original post, I believe as so many have said, darkness and evil exist throughout the world but it seems to me that there are very strong extremes here....a lot of light and a lot of darkness, beauty and the beast.