Beware DR Residents *drivers*

[Sylvester]

Scapegoating at its best

Road Runner has never been regarded as a role model, but Eminem, Tupac etc are.

Yes, I believe the media and deportees are having an effect on crime here in the DR.

Tupac and Eminem didnt tell anyone to rape any 15 year old girl, or steal anyones SUV. Hip Hop is not responsible for the crime taking place in the DR.
The problem is in your own backyard. Look no farther than the corrupt political system that has a stranglehold on the DR society.

 

[Sylvester]

There is some positive hip hop music but I think the vast majority is a terrible influence on youth. Sure, some kids are level headed and well raised, but many kids (in cities throughout the US and DR) are out roaming the streets with no fathers keeping them in line and listening to this violent, adrenaline pumping music. It perpetuates a vicious cycle of "art imitating life" and "life imitating art."

The music didn't make them steal the car and rape the girl, but it sure did nothing to stop them. This urban, hip hop respectless culture is a huge detriment to DR and the US.

Vast majority is a terrible influence ? Have you heard the vast majority of hip hop ? You hear a few songs from some gangster rappers and assume the vast majority of hip hop is represented by them.

Since when is it a function of music to prevent crime ? As far as it being a detriment to society, they said the same thing about Jazz and Rock and Roll.

 

[NALs]

Tupac and Eminem didnt tell anyone to rape any 15 year old girl, or steal anyones SUV. Hip Hop is not responsible for the crime taking place in the DR.
The problem is in your own backyard. Look no farther than the corrupt political system that has a stranglehold on the DR society.

Hmm, lets see. The DR has always had a corrupt government, since its inception and yet, only in the past 5 to 10 years have crime truly jumped up!

Our backyard may have some issues, but the external factors are clearly making an impact.

From Mc.Donald's on the 27 de Febrero to the beach resorts along the beaches to the urban music, external factors are changing the DR fast both good and bad.

The DR is better off with no negative Hip Hop or Reggeton or anything else. However, the good versions of Hip Hop, etc are more than welcomed. It was good that Calderon was kicked out of the DR when the government found that his songs praised the use of Marijuana. We may have a corrupt government, but from time to time they care.

 

[juancarlos]

If you live in El Millon

Be very careful, I just read in El Nacional that a criminal gang is operating in the area. They just roughed up the mother of PRD vice president in front of her own house. Stole her vehicle as well as passport and bag. She is the mother of Emmanuel Esquea, according to the newspaper. Colmado owners and other bussiness operators report a marked increase in violent crime in recent weeks.

 

[quejeyoke]

hang in there!..el chapulin colorado on his way to save the day

but, according to the community police chief, he's dumping most of the young 'community police officers' he has onto the streets fully equiped with their own P.N. hat (policia nacional) to deter crime in the streets by using a strategy, among others, where "they'll infiltrate gang holdout barrios and get to know the residents and win their trust", according to an article in diariolibre.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

interesting to say the least

Balance is needed in argumentation?

1) I think that everyone is responsible for their own actions and should be held accountable for them. I also think that carrying your own responsibility is becoming less prevalent these days in general, due to spending less time with role models that advocate this. You cannot learn what is not taught.

2) It is true that cultural influences like rap have an effect on the minds of people exposed to them. There is no denying that rap and its culture influence fashion, influence the appereaning of gangs in urban areas, how they go about their business... Anyone who denies that the export of 'culture' from the US-slums is taking place and having a negative effect on young people is blinded to reality.

3) Deportees telling young impressionable barrio kids stories about the land of honey and milk and being a big man in the barrio increase the cultural effects. These deportees have been deported for a reason but keep telling their stories to the young and impressionable kids who soak them up and will follow the example set by the US-guy.

4) Responsibility for this behaviour falls to the parents in particular and society in general. Teaching kids morality and at the same time opening up avenues of improvement in economical and social arenas gives these kids an alternatvie to the rap-culture. This is currently lacking, making it easier for them to turn to crime as the only way to improve themselves.

5) Do not believe that the situation would be better without the rap scene.. if no opportunities for regular advancement are presented then disgruntled members of society will always hate the 'haves' and (violent) crime will ensue. Maybe the tempo is different but the outcome will be the same imo.

6) Solutions. the only real way to avoid or reverse these trends is to open up opportunities for improvement in society to all, teach that good values, hard work and keeping your nose clean can bring its rewards. Young people must be presented with an alternative to keep them from crime in order to occupy them with other things than crime. This is not simple and will require a shift in the Domenican society that I for one do not see happening overnight.

7) I am not sure in what respect these increases relate to the power transfer from Hippo to Leonel.. I may ahve suspicious mind but I think some attacks are politically motivated.. revenge for the retirement/sacking of govt employees.

Just mis dos cheles,

MD

 

[Gabriela]

1989

When communism collapsed in Eastern Europe, many East Europeans came to the DR and liked what they saw. Some of them were extremely dangerous criminals or now unemployed state security agents. The twenty year olds are just the foot soldiers. If the DR wants to create a safe society, Fernandez must root out the criminal infrastructure in the country, and end the crime highways between Montreal, New York, Toronto, Colombia and the Dominican Republic. Can he do it? If he does, I predict he'll be assassinated before the end of his term? God Bless him and the DR
Gabriela
(journalista)

 

[neilc]

To have or not

The world is occupied by two types of people, the haves and the have nots.

All of the have nots want to have more. A majority of these people will try to better themselves by education, better job, work harder in order to realise their dreams.

Some people will go the easy way and without a conscience will go through life lying, stealing, tricking and committing violence towards others to fulfil their own selfish ends.

Music is a media that pulls down social and cultural barriers and then is interpreted by the individual. If the lyrics are negative and suggest that the easy way is acceptable, it is hardly surprising of the outcome.

This I believe is only one factor in many leading to a downward spiral of youth morality. All too often we see the punishment not fitting the crime. How will puny sentences ever act to be a deterrence with the youth of today.

Neil

 

[miguel]

Let's see!

I just can not understand how can anyone, and I mean ANYONE would say that what happened to that poor girl was the "works" of a deportee or someone that listen to Hip Hop music. I am just wondering because it does not says ANYWHERE that they were/did such.

I, for one, HATE(with a passion) rap music or raggeton but I truly believe that there are people that are just bad people. When someone is "plain" bad, NOBODY would be able to "straighten" that person. Some DO have both parents around and the parents DO try to stop them from listening to that garbage(my opinion) but there's only so much that a parent can do. They are not with their kids 24/7. Granted, some kids are influenced by "hoodlum" rap music but not all. Let's see, my son likes rap and he just graduated from college, my daughter likes rap music and will graduate from college top of her class. I mean, rap is rap but the true foundation starts at home. You think that it helps any to tell a kid "i don't want you listening to that crap" instead of letting them see for themselves that it's just music and reminding them that " it's a song by someone that it's just telling HIS POINT OF VIEWS ON THINGS. Remember, the more you tell a kid not to do something, the more they will do it.

Unless I see that the detectives and the right authorities say that that poor girl was raped by deportees or hip hop listeners, I will keep away from acusing them. Just do not be surprised if it was done by just plain bad people. Maybe they did, maybe not, so why would I immediately think that they did it. Let's wait and see!.

 

[NALs]

I, for one, HATE(with a passion) rap music or raggeton but I truly believe that there are people that are just bad people. When someone is "plain" bad, NOBODY would be able to "straighten" that person. Some DO have both parents around and the parents DO try to stop them from listening to that garbage(my opinion) but there's only so much that a parent can do. They are not with their kids 24/7. Granted, some kids are influenced by "hoodlum" rap music but not all. Let's see, my son likes rap and he just graduated from college, my daughter likes rap music and will graduate from college top of her class. I mean, rap is rap but the true foundation starts at home. You think that it helps any to tell a kid "i don't want you listening to that crap" instead of letting them see for themselves that it's just music and reminding them that " it's a song by someone that it's just telling HIS POINT OF VIEWS ON THINGS.

Miguel, you should feel proud of your children or men and women you have created because:

A. They are your blood and soul
B. You have created a pair of human beings that will be very productive to humanity with their high education

and last but not least, C. your children are not weak minded. They know what they want and maybe they might have leadership skills.

That is probably why your kids don't take what rap music says literally and they listen to the music and yet, do what's right such as finishing their studies.

Unfortunately, most kids out there are weak minded and as such, any type of music will have some influence their way of being. Feel proud for your children, but remember your offsprings are an exception to the rule.

Otherwise, marketing would not be as effective if most people were not weak minded in any society. Right?

 

[miguel]

My point!

Miguel, you should feel proud of your children or men and women you have created because:

A. They are your blood and soul
B. You have created a pair of human beings that will be very productive to humanity with their high education

and last but not least, C. your children are not weak minded. They know what they want and maybe they might have leadership skills.

That is probably why your kids don't take what rap music says literally and they listen to the music and yet, do what's right such as finishing their studies.

Unfortunately, most kids out there are weak minded and as such, any type of music will have some influence their way of being. Feel proud for your children, but remember your offsprings are an exception to the rule.

Otherwise, marketing would not be as effective if most people were not weak minded in any society. Right?

The point that I was trying to make is that, IMHO, a kid's development starts at home but there's only so much that you can do. They do go to school and hang with all type of people. But when you plant a good seed on a child, that child is meant to be a good kid. Granted, there are kids that are just born bad and nothing can change that. When I was educating my kids, I made them live by example. Anybody can be a parent but not many can be a true friend to their kids.

As I said before, I will wait to see who did that terrible act that the young girl before I go around acusing a certain group of people or music listerner. Who knows, maybe those monsters were not monster when they were growing up and just became victims of a "low self-steem" environment(poor suroundings).

 

[NALs]

As I said before, I will wait to see who did that terrible act that the young girl before I go around acusing a certain group of people or music listerner. Who knows, maybe those monsters were not monster when they were growing up and just became victims of a "low self-steem" environment(poor suroundings).

Yeah, I think we should just wait and see how this turns out. It's just that I don't understand why in times past people who became victims of a "low self-esteem" environment didn't resort to such violent and drastic measures and today people are much more accepting into doing violent crime.

The increase of violence as a mode of entertainment has something to do with that, IMO, but like you said, lets wait and see how this particular issue turns out.

 

[Escott]

That plan would actually force many Dominicans to get off their butts and protest and demand their government to give them a better life! That would work, instead of just getting on the next plane to NY when things start to get tough in Santo Domingo.!

Hehehe, demand the government give them a better life? How about all those Dominicans that got off their arses and did well without the government. Should the government just divide all their assets and hand them out? <shaking head>

Also, why is that so many of you are so sure, so positive that the rest of the world doesn't have an effect in the DR? Notice, I say effect, I never say full responsibilities for the DR problem.!

Of course not, I would be surprised if you were ever to take any blame for Dominicans. I am sure the last government was the fault of the US also?

I mean, many of you are quick to point the positives of the rest of the world effects on the DR, but when someone points to the negative, all of a sudden "the rest of the world has nothing to do with that".!

What could it be that the rest of the world would be able to do to make Dominicans attack Dominicans? If these were Canadians for example and it happened all the time I would have to agree but your arguement doesn't hold water.

After all, what foreign organization or foreign influence helped the US developed? the answer is none!!

What are you talking about?

Why is the DR any different? Is it that the rest of the world feels that we can't govern ourselves?!

Yes the rest of the world feels that you can NOT govern yourselves. Just look at the last administration who stole the futures of your children and all you people did was burn a few tires in the street. You won't even put the SOB's in jail now. Of course you can't govern yourselves, isn't that 100% obvious to you?

Remember, it took the US over 200 years to get where it is today, with no interference or little interference from foreign sources! !

Without interference the DR would be a joke by now. You should be thankful for the interference you have had. At least now you are a semi independant country with your hand out for help from every country you can get your sticky paws on. If you go back to the 1850's the US had it more together than the DR has today. You think 200 years will be a magic number for the DR for some reason?

The DR has been under control of other flags than its own for most of its time! To assume that foreign influence is not prevailant in the DR is just ignorant and absurd!

If it wasn't for foreign influence your country would be in complete shambles today. Just say "Thanks".

Scott

 

[NALs]

I always wonder why so many people counter-respond to my comments here.

If what I say is so incorrect, why bother?

Here is Escott (among others) whom is trying to say in a mouth full of words that what I said in the previous post is incorrect and that I have it wrong. That I should just sit down and let the Colonialist and Imperialist to do away with what they have always done here in the DR.

Well, if I am so wrong, why do people feel the need to counter-respond to my comments?

Wouldn't my comments contradict themselves?

This is really interesting to say the least.

People feel the need to "tell the world how it is" and that I should just give in. It appears that I am making more sense and many don't want that, thus they respond in such fashion.

Escott and Company, foreign sources have shaped the DR into what it is today. They came in force when they wanted a government to go (Trujillo's final days, Juan Bosch, etc), they stayed away when they did not wanted a government to go (Trujillo's first days, Hipolito, etc) and they never finished what they started.

The foreigners invaded us, told us that we need to follow Democracy, and then let us figure it out on our own! Geez, how can we know how to function as a Democracy when the "mentor" left before the lecture was over?

Oh, but let us get a Government that rejects Globalization, throws away all the expats, and focuses on strengthening the DR in the region and watch the gun boats appear off the coast of Santo Domingo again!

You guys really make me laugh.

Every time the DR tries to do something on its own, that is when the gun boats appear!

Haiti was a foreign influence that cost us greatly in the past. The US is a foreign influence that only buts in when its at its convenience (they came and killed Trujillo when he did not suited them, but they let Hippo destroy our economy).

So, yeah, maybe Escott is correct, foreign powers are the reasons why we are not in shambles?

However, we don't have electricity, we don't have an even infrastructure, we are a broken down country. Geez, thank you foreigners for all your help! I really hope the foreigners are making the best of the Dominican professionals and intellectuals that they have scooped up over the years!

Thank you a lot! :dead:

 

[Escott]

The US is responsible because it should have taken out Hippo?

Whats the matter, the burning of the tires didn't do the job? <oye>

I am truly amazed at the jumps in logic you take. Dominicans for the most part inflict pain on other Dominicans and you put this on the backs of foreign countries?

How can you have a problem and fix it if it is always the "Otterguy" that caused it. This is a hard arguement to have with you because you also feel that the government should give the Dominicans a better life and there is no room in your heart for self improvement.

You have no electric because there would be no payoffs if the grid was running well. I can't believe you think the Dominicans have NOTHING to do with your ills.

Escottishakinghead

 

[NALs]

See, this is the problem with debating via the net. Let me try to explain it the best I can, other than this only person to person conversation will clear all this up.

The US is responsible because it should have taken out Hippo?

Whats the matter, the burning of the tires didn't do the job?

No, that is your perception of what I said. What I intended for you to understand is that, if the DR needs foreign intervention because we can't govern ourselves according to you and others, then why did the foreign powers did nothing during the Hippo disaster years?

I mean, it only makes sense to expect foreign powers to put us in the right direction, because according to you and many others, we just don't know how to do things here.

How can you have a problem and fix it if it is always the "Otterguy" that caused it. This is a hard arguement to have with you because you also feel that the government should give the Dominicans a better life and there is no room in your heart for self improvement.

Its not the other guy that caused it and that was never my intention in this or any other debate.

However, if you say that we can't govern ourselves and that the DR is what it is today because of Foreign influences than it makes sense for the almighty masters of Dominican society (which according to you would be the foreign forces because with them we are nothing) to come and set us in the right path.

But, that is never the case. Foreign powers only come when Dominicans actually decide to take control of their destiny.

After Trujillo, Dominicans wanted Bosch in power. He proposed land reforms and other good things for society and of course his ideas clashed with the notion of American and European companies making money off Dominican assets. So, the most democratic Dominican ever was branded a communist, then came the gun boats and the next thing we know is that he is deposed and Balaguer is put in place because Balaguer promised that foreign investments won't be tampered with under his government.

Despite the fact that in the beginning he ruled like a dictator, killing opponents, fixing elections, and other iron fist attitudes. The foreign powers did nothing, because he promised Gulf & Western (among other companies) to keep taking in the millions of dollars in profits from the country.

And if all of this doesn't makes sense to you, all I am trying to say is this.

If the DR needs foreigners to set us straight, then why don't the foreign powers stay and lead us the way until we make it into success?

They always leave before finishing the job!

Otherwise, get the heck out and let us do our thing our way.

 

[Escott]

I was only kidding when I said you needed intervention. Half kidding anyway. I have actually thought the best thing the DR could do would be to hire Rudolf Gulliani to be your supervisor. He would clean up the mess and get you on the right foot. Put all the bums in jail and teach you all that you shouldn't steal from each other.

I don't think it is outside intervention that the DR needs just as I don't think that is what is causing the DR's ills. I just hate it when I see people like you and Porfio blaming the US for government malpractice, greed and corruption of and by Dominicans in the DR.

I hope the gunboats return if the DR tries to do a taking of private property. That is not acceptible behavour anywhere in the world.

I apologize for any other comments.


Scott

 

[suarezn]

I read this thread and all I can think is how out of touch with the dominican reality some people are in here and how little they really know about The DR, in spite of having lived there for a while.
Rap and Deportees are the cause? Give me a freaking break! How many deportees do any of you guys know personally? I bet you none. I, on the other hand know many and I can tell you that 99% of them are NOT involved in crime in The DR. This is just scapegoating, as this is an easy group to point the finger to...as usual. I will bet you that there are at least three times as many policemen involved in crimes (including violent crime) as deportees...
As for rap I'm not even going to answer that. You have to be retarded to blame problems in The DR on music. How about our (I will include myself) cultural propensity (inherited from the spaniards) to be dishonest, lazy, and not take responsibility for our own action? How about the fact that we've always been corrupt? We like easy money...It's a fact! That's why you see Mexicans working their butt off for less than minimum wage here in The US, while Dominicans say "I'll rather take the risk and sell some drugs". The social descomposition that we see in The DR right now, has been happenning for a long time now (ever since Trujillo was killed). We're just starting to see it peak. Just be glad we're not Brazil, Puerto Rico, Mexico, or almost any other Latin American country for that matter...

 

[NALs]

How many deportees do any of you guys know personally? I bet you none. I, on the other hand know many and I can tell you that 99% of them are NOT involved in crime in The DR.

Before they were deported, did you know that they were into crime? Also, if you knew, why did you not reported them to the local authorities? That is something expect of a person that wrote the following paragragh which I quoted below.

Also, if they were deported for fake visas, etc. that is a different type of deportee and not the one we are referring to. We are talking about the human hunters! I don't think its just pure coincidence that crime has increased ever since there have been mass deportation of the least wanted people on the planet - the criminals in general. I also don't think that it was pure coincidence that dismantled bodies are appearing floating in the Ozama river, that kidnappers are now killing their subjects even after the ransom has been paid, that more sophisticated modes of crime are being seen in this country. Even the police have recognized that the type of crime seen today in SDQ is not relevant to how crime was done. Its much more sophisticated and identical to crime patterns that have plagued NYC, Miami and other foreign cities where Dominicans have migrated and settled and intermingled with the urban low class.

As for rap I'm not even going to answer that. You have to be retarded to blame problems in The DR on music.

The problems are not the fault of the music, but much of that genre musical style is not helping the situation.

And if you don't want to believe that, then fine. The actions of many "gangsters" in their way of dressing, talking, acting, and even walking shows that music does have a huge effect on how people perceive the world and react to it.

How about our (I will include myself) cultural propensity (inherited from the spaniards) to be dishonest, lazy, and not take responsibility for our own action? How about the fact that we've always been corrupt? We like easy money...It's a fact!

Interesting that you blame the Spaniards for those faults. The last time I checked, Spaniards are advancing quite well economically and culturally while Africa falls ever backwards and more into corruption, dishonesty, and lazyness. Hmm, it appears that we have inherited our faults from Africa more so than Europe. The global evidence is there.

A Cuban flees Cuba and lands in Haiti. Then he crosses the border into the DR and might decide to stay. Within a few years, the guy has a business going, he is probably enrolled at a local university or technical school on a part-time basis, and he is making it just well. The Haitian crosses the border, immediately begins selling mostly junk in the streets of Dominican cities. When that doesn't work, they beg the much needed tourists to death and create and expand the shantytowns in the country (90% of the people that live in Dominican slums are Haitians, and that is according to the last census in 2000, under the Leonel administration). Also, keep in mind that the last census did not even caught all the Haitians living here due to fear from many Haitians being deported.

That's why you see Mexicans working their butt off for less than minimum wage here in The US, while Dominicans say "I'll rather take the risk and sell some drugs". The social descomposition that we see in The DR right now, has been happenning for a long time now (ever since Trujillo was killed). We're just starting to see it peak.

Interesting that you take the few Dominican drug dealers to paint the entire people as such. The sad part is that you are a Dominican I suppose! You should know better than to see your people from a tiny negative group!

Also, it's interesting that you have notice the decline of integrity since Trujillo was deposed. Ask yourself one question, who got rid of Trujillo and lefted us to figure out "how to live" on our own? Who came into our land and told us that we don't know how to do things, but never suggested in ways of fixing it?

oops, there I go again blaming others for the DR problems, or maybe its just that everything leads to those others? Go back in time in the DR and notice how acute shifts in Dominican ideology and composition are always due to foreign intervention, whether they were Haitian invasions, American invasions, French invasions, etc. Those intervention always take us out of our development trajectory into complete anarchy.

Just be glad we're not Brazil, Puerto Rico, Mexico, or almost any other Latin American country for that matter...

Explain that quote, because I don't get what you are saying there.

 

[gmiller261]

NalOwhs

If this was actually a debatable subject I would have to say Scott has soundly argued the more correct view.

IMO, The DR is not even background noise either financially or democratically to the reset of the world.

If you are trying to say that the way developed countries help, is more of a hindrance to the DR, I would have to respectfully disagree.

Even the kind of ?Boss Hog? attitude of the last government perpetrated on the majority of the people, IMO, was saved by ?giving? the guy money and letting him hang himself.

Now what was typical, at least to me, is the ending of one of your paragraphs.

They came in force when they wanted a government to go (Trujillo's final days, Juan Bosch, etc), they stayed away when they did not wanted a government to go (Trujillo's first days, Hipolito, etc) and they never finished what they started.

This is Scott?s point of ?Take responsibility for you own actions??. No one country is to ?finish? the DR responsibility but the DR, period. External sources ?try? and give guidance as well as money in hopes they can empower DR sources to ?finish?.