Isn't that exactly what Balaguer wrote in La Realidad Dominicana? Didn't he ?prove? that Haitians and Dominicans not only belong to different nations, but also to completely different races? And wasn't that book written to defend the Trujillo regime? That's what I meant above about this work effectively rewriting the history of Haitian-Dominican relations. Well, your answer has clarified my question so thank you. Clearly it still does have an impact today.
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Commonwealth of Haiti territory of the USA
Isn't that exactly what Balaguer wrote in La Realidad Dominicana? Didn't he ?prove? that Haitians and Dominicans not only belong to different nations, but also to completely different races? And wasn't that book written to defend the Trujillo regime? That's what I meant above about this work effectively rewriting the history of Haitian-Dominican relations. Well, your answer has clarified my question so thank you. Clearly it still does have an impact today.
Here is an interesting link on the history of "antihaitianismo" and Balaguar which may help us "foreigners" understand the mindset of the "locals"
Haiti: Antihaitianismo in Dominican Culture
Haiti: Antihaitianismo in Dominican Culture
Firstly I dont think AAs are bewildered by the fact that some Dominicans "do not identify in the exact same way as they do", but the REASON/mindset behind it!
As Uruguay stated that girl CANNOT be pretty because "she is black" PERIOD! It is her blackness that makes her inferior.
There is an obvious negative association with blackness/African and ..THAT IS THE PROBELM AAs and others have with it!!!
When I was talking to a Dominican guy, who obviously had African blood...his response to me was 'I am no ugly black African monkey'. I thought I was talking to a member of the KKK lol
As another white female expat stated recently...when she met her Dominican friends young daughter for the first time and told her, that her daughter was beautiful, the mothers response, infront of her child was "oh but she turned out too black". As if that was a negative. How would that make any child feel? What does that tell/teach a child about themselves and the world around them? Black= Bad.
The expat was rightfully shocked by the mothers response and praised the daughters beautiful complexion saying she wished she had skin like that.
I make no apologies when I say I think that this mothers response (and ANYONE who thinks/speaks like her Dominican or not) denotes some maladaptive conditioning, which needs corrective action!
This is NOT an issue of ethnocentric or cultural biased feelings of superiority.
I think sometimes people use 'culture' as a way to veil and excuse destructive and hurtful behaviour.
A Dominican man posted on this board that he does not allow anyone in his home to use terms such as bad/good hair, etc. He is concious of the negatives of such behaviour.
And as I previously stated this is NOT exclusive to the DR. This is not the first time I have experienced or heard these things. Unfortunately it is too common all over the world, were there was no history of Haitian occupation or illegal immigration. So this is not exclusively a Haitian issue, as some would like to make it out to be.
Lambada the 2 questions you asked are of course pieces of the puzzle of this issue. Haitian occupation just added to an already existing underlying issue...
A fear and loathing of anything black/African/primitive culture. That is the root of the problem, everything else just grows from that core problem.
But would Hitler have been able to do what he did in Germany if the majority of Germans didnt already have an extreme dislike for the Jewish people? The seed was already there, just waiting to be watered. Hitler was not the real issue, the real issue was that a group of people had hatred in their heart for others based on race, etc. and felt superior.
Also it is not just African-Americans visiting the DR who feel this way, as is evident in this thread, other threads and the article Bientot linked. There are Dominicans, white Europeans, Canadians, Americans etc. who have expressed similar opinions about this topic.
Interesting article.
Especially the following passage.
"Balaguer then goes on to offer some distorted views of Dominican history:
The extinction of the indian race gave way for the population of Santo Domingo to be integrally constituted by European families, especially Spanish and French. Before the Treaty of Basel (1795), the colony's population was formed by the best of the families that had migrated to America, attracted by gold or by the fascinating mystery of remote expeditions [Balaguer 1984, 59].
In this brief passage, Balaguer helps to perpetuate the myth of the white Dominican by ignoring the fact that there was a considerable number of blacks and mulattoes in the colony before 1795 (Moya Pons 1977, 378-379). Balaguer's romantic notion of Dominican history is, unfortunately, shared by many Dominicans. Also widely shared are his 19th century notions of racial differences:
. . . the negro, abandoned to his instincts, and without the restraint on reproduction that a relatively high level of living imposes on all countries, multiplies himself with a speed similar to that of vegetable species [Balaguer 1984, 36].
Balaguer's bigotry is not only limited to Haitians, but includes all members of the black race. Two related facts are important. First, that Joaqu?n Balaguer has been president of the Dominican Republic on six occasions. He is not an obscure writer, but a person who has the power and influence to impose his views on the rest of the population. Second, La Isla al Rev?s became a national best seller, which suggests that many educated Dominicans share Balaguer's views."
Can we be sure that the racism or penchant for things here in the DR to reject all things Haitian was something formulated from the very formation of this country (as happened in the US) or a knee jerk reaction to a situation and antagonistic neighbor? Truth be told, Haitians historically haven't helped their case much, what with their own racial purging (much before that ever happened in the DR) and invasion and massacring of the locals.
No doubt some Dominicans have used this historical occurrence to further divide and distinguish themselves from Haitians, but why is any different from any other place in the world that have two neighboring countries with a combative past? In fact it is not any different; and while the time has come to bury the hatchet, what parts of antihaitionismo should be attributed to this common feature of antagonistic neighbors as opposed to inherent racism?
I don't see the same causes of antihaitionism as the same causes for racism in other parts of the world much less the US. I state this in order to distinguish the differences in which this "racism" is manifested as opposed to in other places. While no doubt there is a penchant here for lighter skin and what not, this apparently doesn't seem to prevent the locals, and by far the majority of them, from marrying or having mates much darker than themselves. For example, while the youth here will talk about the opposite sex and say they want someone with lighter skin and lighter eyes, inevitably most of them will marry someone much darker and by all accounts there are no negatives - ie the kids are loved by all of the family members, etc. But what about in the US? Also, while it is also common for parents/grandparents to say that one of the kids came out to prieto, (I have many examples in my wifes family), there seem to be no other repercussions for being so unfortunate as to being so dark such as being considered less of a family member or any less loved, etc. On the contrary, in other places such as in the US, what has typically been the stance of white grandparents of mixed children? There really is no comparison in the reaction. Furthermore, while historically blacks in the States consistently have been denied advancement in their career and good jobs, here in the DR, while their certainly is an over representation of lighter skin people in management, there are certainly no shortage of very dark management and successful business owners, doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.
Racism is apparent here in the DR, and certainly more prevalent among lighter skin Dominicans but it is still a minority. "Reactionary racism" to a belligerent neighbor is apparent but it's root cause is/was nationalism (much the same the US during WWII locked up many Japanese US citizens) and is manifested much differently that in other parts of the world such as the US.
No doubt some Dominicans have used this historical occurrence to further divide and distinguish themselves from Haitians, but why is any different from any other place in the world that have two neighboring countries with a combative past? In fact it is not any different; and while the time has come to bury the hatchet, what parts of antihaitionismo should be attributed to this common feature of antagonistic neighbors as opposed to inherent racism?
I don't see the same causes of antihaitionism as the same causes for racism in other parts of the world much less the US. I state this in order to distinguish the differences in which this "racism" is manifested as opposed to in other places. While no doubt there is a penchant here for lighter skin and what not, this apparently doesn't seem to prevent the locals, and by far the majority of them, from marrying or having mates much darker than themselves. For example, while the youth here will talk about the opposite sex and say they want someone with lighter skin and lighter eyes, inevitably most of them will marry someone much darker and by all accounts there are no negatives - ie the kids are loved by all of the family members, etc. But what about in the US? Also, while it is also common for parents/grandparents to say that one of the kids came out to prieto, (I have many examples in my wifes family), there seem to be no other repercussions for being so unfortunate as to being so dark such as being considered less of a family member or any less loved, etc. On the contrary, in other places such as in the US, what has typically been the stance of white grandparents of mixed children? There really is no comparison in the reaction. Furthermore, while historically blacks in the States consistently have been denied advancement in their career and good jobs, here in the DR, while their certainly is an over representation of lighter skin people in management, there are certainly no shortage of very dark management and successful business owners, doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.
Racism is apparent here in the DR, and certainly more prevalent among lighter skin Dominicans but it is still a minority. "Reactionary racism" to a belligerent neighbor is apparent but it's root cause is/was nationalism (much the same the US during WWII locked up many Japanese US citizens) and is manifested much differently that in other parts of the world such as the US.
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That's one of the core questions, I feel, in the case of the DR - when did that already existing underlying issue take root? Was it, as Sag?s suggests, with the advent of colonialism i.e. imported by Spanish colonisers? Or was it a function of a later emerging Dominican nationalism and patriotism?
I'm interested in your views in helping me to analyse this, Thandie. I believe it is a far more complex issue than either denial or amnesia. What I'm in no position to do, however, is to make a judgement about it. I'm white, British and old enough to have been reading British history books in the 1950's, particularly those written about the UK's colonial history. That's when we weren't told, for example, that an important aspect of British rule in India was the psychological indoctrination of an elite layer within Indian society who were artfully tutored into becoming 'model British subjects'. This English-educated layer of Indian society was craftily encouraged in absorbing values and notions about themselves and their land of birth that would be conducive to the British occupation of India, and furthering British goals of looting India's physical wealth and exploiting it's labour.
There is no way I could judge the inhabitants of the DR when I clearly remember the content of some of those history books......not too dissimilar from some of Balaguer's writings. And interestingly La Realidad Dominicana was written in 1947, the same period as the British history books we would all prefer to forget. Only 'forgetting' isn't good enough, it needs to be analysed & challenged. But it needs to be analysed & challenged by Dominicans. Those of us who are expats or visitors run the risk of being party to further imperialism; we cannot impose or correct IMHO we can only encourage others to enter into discourse, being aware all the while that our own views might need challenging from time to time.
One book which I found very useful on this subject is Black behind the ears: Dominican Racial identity from museums to beauty shops by Ginetta Candelario. She examines whether the 'visible' (racial identity) is 'real' outside of any cultural or ideological context.
But the Japanese experienced institutionalied racism prior to WWII, like many other minority groups (i.e. laws prevented them from owning land and property, etc). The prejudiced ways all Asians (including Chinese) were portrayed in popular media...as vengeful villians existed way before WWII.
Those prejudiced beliefs and feelings of superiority allowed such immoral acts as internment to be so readily and quickly accepted by the general population and government. It fed into and matched peoples existing beliefs.
The magnified racism happened during and shortly after the war. For which the US government has since apologized. It does not continue 150 years later like it does in this particular case, when Haiti could be classified a belligerent neighbour.
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I agree that Dominicans are carrying this chip on their shoulder for too long. However, with the state of affairs in Haiti and the constant mass immigration here, how can we expect things to change here in the DR?
I only see change happening when somehow God-willing Haiti is able to get back on it's feet by whatever means necessary and becomes more stable and economically independent. This will inevitably attract Dominicans to work over there and eventually could cause old wounds to finally start healing. A similar thing is happening with regard to many Britons opinion's of the Irish from what I have read when Ireland started becoming more economically competitive.
That has to be the best post of the entire thread.
Let's also not forget that this is a two-sided coin.
Persistent Haitian beliefs related to the DR also influences in all of this.
Here are two of numerous examples of this posted in another forum:
Panoramix said:
The following is the rebuttal by another Haitian:
HaitianKid03 said:
You can read the full debate here: HaitiXChange
In case anyone is wondering the motive for bringing this to light is to help everyone understand that the Dominican preoccupation with all things Haitian is not something that simply emanated from Dominican minds; this is a very real problem that is justified, perpetrated, and reinforced by both nations.
But, the basis is that its very real; despite many Haitians (in public discourse at least) attempting to keep quiet of their aspect and impact in all of this.
-NALs
IMO it took root with the advent of colonialism, just like in other countries. Everything else after that just magnified it.
And I understand what you are saying about understanding the strong impact of the psychological indocrination and 'judging' those affected by it.
Off the subject of race for a moment....just yesterday I had a discussion with a male middle aged friend from A Middle Eastern country about my attending the gay pride parade in Toronto yesterday and he made a homophobic response. I understand he was raised in a country, religion, family and a culture that indoctrinated him with such wrong beliefs (including non equal rights for women). That is all he has been taught, it is all he knows. Beliefs based on lies that are so deeply ingrained and that he was truly shocked how I could feel so comfortable around so many bad, evil gay people. He couldnt understand it.
Did I analyse and challenge the things he was saying in my presence? Absolutely yes, because even though I am not gay I find it hurtful and offensive and I wanted him to know that hate based on prejudice, uttered in my presence will be discussed and challenged by me .
Did I do it in an aggressive or judgemental way? Absolutely not.I did it in a calm, creative and understanding manner (I showed him a documentary about gay adoption that was deeply moving to him), because I know his beliefs stem from ignorance and misinformation. But I did not gloss over the fact that such homophobic beliefs are wrong, regardless of a persons background, or upbringing. A spade is a spade, wrong is wrong.
I understand why you dont feel comfortable but I dont agree that only Dominicans are allowed to analyse and challenge this. To me this isnt a Dominican issue, this is a human issue. If someone speaks hate based on prejudice in my presence whether it is anti Haitian, black, Jew or gay I will not stay silent. Thats just me.
You can criticize and analyze, from afar. We don't need holier-than-thou foreigners with a sense of self-righteousness and possessors of the absolute truth telling us what to do as if we are babies in diapers.
We can handle it by our own self. If we need help, we'll let you know; until then, leave your nose out of places where it wasn't invited.
This has been precisely the paranoia of the entire island, foreigners wanting to control both sides. The Haitians were worried of foreigners from other continents, hence all their aggressions to the DR; and the DR was worried of foreigners, particularly those to the west, hence the reverse (non military) aggression.
Foreigners should stay out of Dominican internal affairs. That's part of the reason this island is the way it is. Stay out!
-NALs
Nals post has summed up why, Thandie, when I'm discussing this issue here in the DR (hopefully also in a calm, creative & understanding manner) I will never define it as 'wrong is wrong' - not verbally or in body language. I might define it as 'different'. It isn't that I don't feel comfortable, it's what gets heard. And frequently there is a perception that one is making a judgement even when one is falling over backwards not to.
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? bient?t
Guest
That sounds a little harsh Nals and foreigners input in this discussion makes it more interesting. Lambada and Thandie are two good example.
Lambada you gave it a twist I did not intend to, I never said "completely different races". Haitians are 95% black, Dominicans are 89% mulattoes/white, hence different.
I'm not referring to discussing this issue on this board or among themselves, I'm referring to actually wanting to impose whatever view they think is 'correct' on us, as if we are not capable of doing such on our own or forcing us to correct whatever they deem 'wrong' before we are even ready, as a people, to do such!
That's the same mentality that lead to the colonization of different people's around the world, in an attempt to 'civilize' them and to make them like 'Europeans' because the Europeans believed in their minds and hearts that that was the RIGHT and CORRECT thing to do. Look at the 'wonderful' results across the globe.
Independent people should be left to their own machinations when it comes to solving their own problems. Foreigners can only suggest, criticize, etc; but they cannot IMPOSE their will on us or any other independent group of people. Much less can they treat us as if we're little babies and they are the great paternalistic people that knows best.
No independent people will ever accept such treatment, well, at the very least, no independent people with enough self respect.
-NALs
What a joke, as if the DR lives in a bubble. From the moment Chris landed on the island, foreigners and their culture (hint Spanish) have been deeply involved in the ways of the Dominicans.
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That's precisely my point and look at the results of such continuous interference.
-NALs