Commonwealth of Haiti territory of the USA

[mountainannie]

if they take nationality, i.e citizenship,,, so that those who say born in the usa
or want that useful American passport instead of the pretty useless Haitian passport
don't pick the nits, Vacara!

 

[Chip]

OK- I will take a few moments of your time to give my opinions of why I think that Haiti is in the shape that it is in today. Please note that these are only MY Opinions and NOT FACTS. Just my take on things. I am well read on the subject both in French and English...... but ... I do not pretend to say that this is the definitive explanation.

First- It was formed by former slaves, few of whom had the benefit of advanced education. Because these slaves came from different tribes, different areas of Africa, they brought little of a common culture with them (except bits of their religion and a shared memory of the horror of the passage). Their cultural identity became The First Black Republic.

Second -It was isolated and embargoed by the entire international community for years, was not granted recognition by the US,(which was a slave holding country) for instance for 50 years, It had NO help whatsoever from any foreign country, perhaps until the US occupation in 1915 which was perhaps a help perhaps not, who can tell.
It has certainly been the victim of the contempt of the global racism and has perhaps used this as an excuse not to take responsibility for its own defects and shortcomings.

Third - was forced to pay reparations for its indepedence, the only country on record which was forced to do so. Some say the last reparations were paid in 1947, others will say that the date is now- when the foreign debt is paid.

Fourth, it formed a constitution which included a ban on "white" people coming in as "masters" which precluded international immigration and investment Even today foreigners are only allowed to own one property, either a home or a business.

Fifth, it reproduced the slavery of its history, as the Creoles, who were born of the French and slaves who were themselves born free, considered themselves above the children of the slaves, and assumed positions of power and ownership. Today, for instance there are an estimated 300,000 children living in a form of child slavery called "restavek" which formed from poor people in the country sending their children to live in the homes of the more wealthy in the city. This is coupled with a sort of disconnect from the land - while over 60% of Haitians are still rural, the educated and elite are in the capital and cities. There is a unspoken contempt for the land, for agricultural work, which has never advanced, never industrialized, rather their education has been more based on the model which was left to them by France in the 18th century/ focused on the liberal arts, and philosophy.This racial/class divide was exacerbated by the fact that formal education was in French while the lingua franca is Kreyole. Not until Aristide were both Kreyole and Voudo (i.e. the 80%) officially recognized.

Sixth, it divided the land into small landholdings after the war of independence as a reward for the soldiers so that there were very few large land holders and many small subsistence farmers.

Seventh, it developed a system of a predatory state which fed off the labor of its people. There has always been a culture of corruption in government wherein those who had control of the state treasury had a license to steal it.

Eight, unlike Trujillo who invested in the infrastructure and repaid the foreign debt, Duvalier did not increase the road structure and increased the foreign debt

Nine, unlike Balaguer who introduced the gas stoves and subsidized the household gas, Haiti did not and so continues to burn charcoal

Ten, unlike the Dominican Republic, which includes its Diaspora in its political process and welcomes its participation, Haiti forbids dual citizenship and denies voting rights or the right to hold office for anyone who has taken foreign citizenship. As soon as someone leaves, they are completely excluded from the political life of their country.

Those are the first ten that come to the top of my mind. But i have been blogging about haiti for the last two years and there is much more information there on my blog.

Nice commentary, no doubt a lot it true.

 

[MikeFisher]

Here is your original post;

And maybe 'antihaitianismo' is functional in maintaining mental health? If people define it as a nationalistic issue rather than a race issue then they can avoid any chronic alienation by remaining largely indifferent to state negrophobia?

I never said you were ignorant Lambada, your post implies Dominicans use the term "Antihaitianism" to mask racial discrimination against Haitians as "nationalistic issue", but you don't present any evidence to support that claim while at the same time the use of "maybe, if, rather etc" indicates uncertainty about the issue. By doing that you are violating a rule of debate; you are "making ignorance a point of view" (not that you are an ignorant person)

I like your posts, I'm not picking up fights with you.

No Vacara,
Lambada did not implant that ignorance would be a point of view here.
the terms "maybe, if, rather aso" just make clear that it looks to Her that way, and of course such is a uncertainty, because it is Lambada's observation and not a law/rule of life written in a book.
our own observations are always a uncertainty, because we can not speak sure for others, so our own observations always hide the risk to be mislead by our own observations/our experiences may have taken place where they are not representative for a whole country aso.

the only ignorant thing i see on this debate is your ignorance to the fact that a good crowd of people see it in a different way than you do yourself.
stop your own ignorance and you will see that many people have different opinions, experience the same country and it's people in different ways, and heck,
there is for sure not just 'one' dominican opinion on that theme, even different dominican citizens have very different opinions to that, too.
Mike

 

[Lambada]

Here is your original post;

And maybe 'antihaitianismo' is functional in maintaining mental health? If people define it as a nationalistic issue rather than a race issue then they can avoid any chronic alienation by remaining largely indifferent to state negrophobia?

I never said you were ignorant Lambada, your post implies Dominicans use the term "Antihaitianism" to mask racial discrimination against Haitians as "nationalistic issue", but you don't present any evidence to support that claim while at the same time the use of "maybe, if, rather etc" indicates uncertainty about the issue. By doing that you are violating a rule of debate; you are "making ignorance a point of view" (not that you are an ignorant person)

I like your posts, I'm not picking up fights with you.

No I didn't take it as a 'fight' (people tend to know when I'm out there all guns blazing :cheeky. It's a language thing, I understand you now - I think maybe () you didn't mean 'ignorance' you meant 'ignoring'?

People choose what parameters they use to define something. It can be either a conscious or an unconscious process. I wasn't actually suggesting that using a nationalistic issue is masking a race issue. In many ways I don't see how it could be: Dominicans define the bulk of the population as 'mixed'. 'Black' doesn't come into it, whereas in the US, notions of the one drop rule prevail. What I was trying to suggest was that antihaitianismo as a nationalistic issue is functional (in the sociological sense of the term) to preserving a sense of psychological wholeness for Dominicans.

I was positing a notion as a way of encouraging further debate. Using terms like 'maybe' and 'if' is an opener rather than a closer and I am open to learning, despite my advanced years . There is also a cultural component: it is ok to admit uncertainty in the culture I was brought up in. I'm British (London University debating team circa 1962), we understate things. In our perception those who debate from a stance of 100% rectitude could be being bombastic. Dominicans debate in a very different way, far more.......exuberantly, shall we say. In your culture, my 'uncertainty' would be perceived as weakness, certainly weakness of argument, yes? I can't know what I'm talking about if I don't a) say it as factually conclusive b) say it often c) say it loudly and with confidence. In my culture, being 100% sure and leaving no room for movement, would be perceived as behavioural dominance. So although in your terms I might be violating a rule of debate, in mine I'm not. Neither of us are wrong, we just see it differently. You are right for you and I'm right for me. Guess we'll just have to jolly along with each other as best we can, eh? :cheeky:

 

[Vacara]

No Vacara,
Lambada did not implant that ignorance would be a point of view here.
the terms "maybe, if, rather aso" just make clear that it looks to Her that way, and of course such is a uncertainty, because it is Lambada's observation and not a law/rule of life written in a book.
our own observations are always a uncertainty, because we can not speak sure for others, so our own observations always hide the risk to be mislead by our own observations/our experiences may have taken place where they are not representative for a whole country aso.

the only ignorant thing i see on this debate is your ignorance to the fact that a good crowd of people see it in a different way than you do yourself.
stop your own ignorance and you will see that many people have different opinions, experience the same country and it's people in different ways, and heck,
there is for sure not just 'one' dominican opinion on that theme, even different dominican citizens have very different opinions to that, too.
Mike

Rats!!......I know it's fourth of July Mike but did we need this display of firework?, and you didn't even address my point. Come back to earth Mike, you are more lost than Bill Mumy.

 

[MikeFisher]

4th of July????
yesterday been just a simple saturday, why should i care about 4th of july?
and you are right,
i did not address your point,
because after reading all those postings i did still not find your point.

but that may be just my own fault with english as my 3rd language.

if you wanna make 'points'/contribute to a theme, just post your opinion and/or experiences to the theme without attacking others opinions/experiences,
such would then be named discussion.
Mike

 

[Islander21]

Well guys all i can say is that is seems real fishy to me that the Haitian Gov would reject a mutlti billion dollars invesment deal with a few large corperations intersted in a project for the island of La Gonave witch would generate infrastructure, jobs, money, tourist etc. for no apparent reason, i ve been to Lagonave and i can tell you there is not mutch on it but i ve seen some of the best beaches i ve ever seen anywhere else i've been, so the Haitian Gov couldnt be that stupid, i think there holding it for an other deal and when u look at the Caribbean that island is the next best spot to Guantanamo for an American base.

 

[D.T SUCKS]

You?re the one who goes off saying ?the Dominicans I know said this, did that? given that you are NOT Dominican. Then, when a Dominican comes here and says something that challenges your deeply ingrained beliefs of what Dominicans think/do/are; your response is ?you don?t speak for all Dominicans?, as if your Dominican ?friends? for some reason do speak for all since what they say goes well with your beliefs.

You?re the one who goes off defending foreign intervention in Dominican affairs concerning this and, perhaps, other issues. Then once you realized you can?t continue to defend this stance, because it?s widely accepted that all independent peoples are free to solve their problems without foreign intervention; then you move on to asking where anyone here is saying that that should be done. The real question is why did you tried to defend foreign intervention before you gave up that stance?

And this is only some of the many things you have been doing in this and other discussions.

The case of the Ethiopians with their skin color issues, suddenly the one?s you know speak for all Ethiopians. It seemed that you meant to say that they were progressing and somehow Dominicans are not, despite the contrary being said by Ethiopians themselves from all backgrounds and, more importantly, the fact that the DR is changing in many aspects, race being one of them. That you fail to recognize that IS the big problem in this discussion.

In the other thread in the Living forum, suddenly you came out of the woodworks in support of what a Dominican woman that has been living in the US for God knows how long and said something that coincides with your beliefs about Dominicans. Suddenly, she seems to speak for all Dominicans, ExtremeDR went there with his/her personal experience as backup ? given that he/she has been living in the DR for a quite a few years ? and suddenly, you used the ?did you know she?s Dominican? card (which is the same as saying "you don't speak for all Dominicans"), as if trying to make what she said to be more legitimate that what ExtremeDR said. Of course you will say such thing, ExtremeDR's comment don't really goes well with your deeply ingrained belief of Dominican society. God forbid ExtremeDR had been a non-Dominican, who knows what you would've said to minimize his/her input.

In another point in the discussion you tried to imply that Dominicans should identify as black, because you, despite your admixture identify as such. You went on about how Dominicans said you look Dominican and then talked about your color and features. Its funny how you never mentioned that Dominicans confused you with a Haitian (the supposedly only people considered black), of course not, Dominicans can tell a mixed individual from a black one from kilometers away. That's why they said you look Dominican, you most likely look mixed. Had you looked full fledge black, you would've been confused with Haitians. And please, don't come now to say that Dominicans did confused you with Haitians, because had that been true, you would had used that a long time ago since it would had supported your case.

Then it was the definition of impose, which is nothing of what you said it was. Of course, why would it be since the real definition doesn't works well with your agenda. (Dictionary: IMPOSE)

You have a very rigid point of view regarding the DR and Dominicans, and apparently you are much more inclined to support those who substantiate your beliefs and belittle those who do not.

Then you tried to pull a DR1 on me, which I usually let it go because its nothing more than people talking c-r-a-p about someone they never met; with the ?your delusional self importance.? Typical tactics people who run out of arguments use, which is attacking the individual.


Thandie, if you?re running out of arguments, please don?t resort to fallacies.

Now, what I really want to know is this:

Can you please quote where I said this can?t be discussed?

-NALs

the ones that resort to fallacies resort to the same finger pointing that gets them no where.

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

Exactly! I have been to Southern Spain many times and as my white British friend says it is OBVIOUS many have African blood and their are undeniable African influences in Spanish culture. This mentality that anything African and black is inferior and thus must be denied, was obvioulsy passed down to Spanish colonies

1. Africa is a continent.
2. Africans are not a single 'race', color, ethnicity or nationality.
3. Africans are not a single monolithic group.
4. Berbers are a native African people.
5. The African armies that invaded & occupied Spain were majority Berber converts to Islam & Arabs. Within this group were also individuals of Sub-Saharan ancestry.
6. Stop applying the 'black' socially constructed racial concept, molded and based on relatively modern European concepts of race on historical events and other regions.
7. Stop trying to pseudopsychoanalyze an entire group of people based on your very modern New World based concepts of race.
8. The mentality you apply to Spanish colonies must then be applied x100000000000 to English & French ones also. Nothing that occured in the former is even comparable to what occured in the latter.

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

Why is that foreigners is so fixated to compare USA recent past race situation to the DR?? I am going to put it this way, if Haiti were to be a country in good shape and the Haitians that would've come would be tourist with dollars in their pockets, you wouldn't notice any bitterness towards Haitians here, even if they are dark blue. We Dominican's don't care about the color of the skin, but we do care about status and are also very nationalists. Remember the war history DR has had with Haiti.

It's been my experience that it is a relatively recent phenomenon. Foreigners, in particular of the Anglophone Afrocentric variety, have become obsessed with LatinAmerica and 'race'. The countries that call their attention the most are those with people of Afrodescendancy, so Cuba, PR, DR & Brazil take the top spots. DR has top billing because of the Haitian situation. Note, you will never hear absolutely not one negative word said about Haiti, the Dominicans are caricaturized to the point where they make cartoonish looking villains, Haitians are of course romantized as innocents with a glorious past. There is alot of hypocrisy of course, easilty to spot, I'll give you a few hints:

1. There is a negative stigma attached to Haiti & Haitians all thru the Caribbean region, this includes other Francophone islands like Guadaloupe & Martinque. This negative stigma is strongest in islands where there are Haitian migrants who experience many of the same things (or worse) than they experience in DR, except this time it's by people who are nearly similar in phenotype. No cries of racism.

2. Right here in the good ole USA, we have the first 'black' President in the process of deporting 30,000 (last time I checked). No cries of racism.

3. Again, in the good ole USA, African Americans look down upon Haitians, try telling one of them he has Haitian ancestry. There's a ton of material on the mistreatment of Haitians by African Americans, also by other Caribbean islanders.

I speak not only based on articles, but from real life experience. Irvington, Newark, East Orange NJ has a ton of Caribbean islanders including Haitians and I was raised with African Americans.

The hypocrisy & double standards are truly sickening.

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

Thank goodness for photoshop, because it is alot safer than those popular cancer causing skin bleaching creams sold in the Dominican shops.
One of my Swedish friends Dominican neighbours in POP was rubbing that crap on her 1 year old daughter 'to whitener her up because she was too dark'. My friend and her husband were appalled when she said she wanted her baby to have white skin like them so her life would be easier.

Okay, this poster is really going out of her way to try to portray Dominicans as some type of delusional white wannabe.

Skin bleaching creams are not and have never been widely used or popular in DR for people 'trying to look white'. Your my friend have a very one dimensional race obsessed and color struck mind.

1. There's not obsession in DR with skin bleaching cream like India, where they advertise right on tv fair & lovely (for women) and fair & handsome (for men) to make people 'whiter' who they equate to looking better.

2. There's not obsession with said items like SouthEast Asia, were natives hide from the sun by all means necessary and having dark skin is a curse.

3. There is no rampant use of said items like Sub-Saharan AFRICAN countries, where the government had to actually consider passing laws controlling this practice due to the widespread use.

4. Jhttp://francismove.blogspot.com/2008/08/skin-bleaching.htmlamaicans are called 'bleachers' by other Caribbean islanders.

WApparently, in Jamaica, we have some that firmly believe that bleached skin is also a sign of beauty.
hat does the current rage -- skin bleaching -- tell us about our identity?

 

[NALs]

Foreigners, in particular of the Anglophone Afrocentric variety, have become obsessed with LatinAmerica and 'race'.

There is alot of hypocrisy of course...

The hypocrisy & double standards are truly sickening.

You should read "Not Out of Africa". It concerns certain "issues" among Afrocentrists, of which I think is widely on display when it comes to their take on the DR and other Latin American countries.

You can read some of the reviews here. Please start with the third review written by an African-American "C. Freeman" and then go on with the rest.

Here is the author herself explaining why she decided to publish the book:

Why I wrote the book

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

Firstly I am not American and not comparing race issues to the USAs.
The issue is it is crazy to deny the fact that many Dominicans have African blood running through their veins. This can be proven by DNA testing it is not even debatable anymore.
Cuba is a very mixed country also and the typical Cuban wont deny their African hertitage like Dominicans do...actually the opposite, they embrace it, and have respect for their total combined roots and history.

And regarding this war history Haiti hundreds of years ago. I asked one of my Dominican friends why he disliked Haitians so much and he pulled out that old war card too. But when I asked him why he did not hold such contempt for Spaniards based on the tainted and abusive history with that European country he said oh well...silence again.

Its the strong denial that people take issue with.

I've tried to understand how and why you percieve things the way you do, but now I can't even take you seriously with this post.

From it's very inception, Dominicans, like many other LatinAmericans, came to their own version of the gist of La Raza Cosimica, meaning we are a mix of heritages. The particular mix, Euro/Afro./Amerind. is plainly stated in any standard school text in DR, it is in plain view in our national museums. Dominicans know and understand what negro means, a very easily confirmed example, does the Dominican musical icon Johnny Ventura not self-identify as black?

Then, as is typical among foreigners, you compare another LatinAmerican Cuba to DR in terms of race/color relations, not even comparable. But then again, it's typical for foreigners like you to believe Castro's brainwashing of the African American community, as well as others in the English world.

Cuba? The LatinAmerican country to have legal race based segregation?
Cuba? The one to have a race based massacre of black Cubans?
Cuba? The ones who have a racist reputation here in the USA?
Are you for real?
Cuba, who still had slavery which appalled the Domincian Maximo Gomez (one of the founding liberators of Cuba)

And then you use the tired old race card for the Haitian issue when there are blatant examples of 'anti-haitianismo' found all over 'black' Caribbean islands. Or is it only racism when it applies to Dominicans?

One dimensional. Race obsessed. Color struck.

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

You should read "Not Out of Africa". It concerns certain "issues" among Afrocentrists, of which I think is widely on display when it comes to their take on the DR and other Latin American countries.

You can read some of the reviews here. Please start with the third review written by an African-American "C. Freeman" and then go on with the rest.

Here is the author herself explaining why she decided to publish the book:

Why I wrote the book

Thanks, I will check it out. African American authors who criticize Afrocentric extremist are usually labelled 'uncle toms' by their community. I really like Tomas Sowell's three books on racial matters, he of course is considered an uncle tom by many in his community.

Afrocentric idealogues have taken interest, well actually obsession in LatinAmerica ever since they discovered that LatinAmericans incorporated many African influenced elements into their culture, alot more so than the Anglophone world. So much so that Anglophone Caribbean islanders & African Americans are pretty much Black versions of Englishmen & Americans by comparison which is another ironic fact I find in their accusations of 'black denial', as if wearing dashikis or celebrating Kwanzaa is the black-o-meter they use to measure this.

 

[El_Uruguayo]

Breaking News: Haiti makes their bid for the 2216 olympics!!!

Haiti Makes Bid For 2216 Olympics | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


When will the DR make theirs€??

 

[Chip]

Breaking News: Haiti makes their bid for the 2216 olympics!!!

Haiti Makes Bid For 2216 Olympics | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


When will the DR make theirs???

que falta de respecto

 

[El_Uruguayo]

**respeto**

 

[Frank the Tank]

Now that's funny. Gotta love The Onion. jajajajajajajajajjajjajajajajaj

 

[gemenilaidback]

I have not psoted for a long time but I want to say a few things to Thandie....and Nals etc...

I didnt post on here are simply read posts for a long tiem for a reason...one I am half Dominican American (other half Mixed truly mixed 30% each different race), secondly I wanted to stay in the D.R. and have an experience there ...(a few times) before I spoke about things I didnt fully understand like my mom did....I now am hopefully (God willing) going to graduate with a Masters in Latin American History (Also studying the African Diaspora and Caribbean history.

Is there racism..in the D.R. not really, nationalistic pride that takes on other forms of prejudice , yes. (Haiti vs.Dr...is nationality based, and Haitains will be prejudice in the States if you apprear mixed, it happened to me) I never received one instance of racism in the D.R. (well except one from another white American), not one, and the individuals americans which did claim to experience it and I have met them are too are way sensitive about race, seriously (and angry often even calling people who dont hold tier view traitors). Most of them are pro-black activists that cant see past thier own egos to enjoy one day without getting angry, because they let assholes get them angry, life is too short for that, there fore I judge everyone on case by case basis which si what people in the DR do. .....I also want to say this in the States these people who complain are usually treated as gods particularly better than their male counterparts...I am male and light brown...well let's jsut say I get treated better in the D.R.. Also remember African American females are treated substantially better because of stereotypes and some forms of truth about their black male counterparts, honeslty there are more of them but many do run single families, come form a female dominated community (the black church ironically headed by a male), have better job opportunities, and have more education and fewer criminal records. On this alone they have a better reputation, more confidence, and also many bold and self absorbed ideologies. To those that are used to it in the staes it is normal to other cultures especially male dominated cultures like Latino culture, African, Arab etc it is insulting.

The United Staes should not have the one drop rule, if this would have never happened, My grandfather would actually be a Monocan Indian, but due to the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 he was labeled colored (my father in the military was labeled white in 1956 due to it, go figure he is brown yet more Indian looking), then after the 70's after the civil rights movement and the black power movement black was the accepted ,adopted venecular term, which was accepted out of pride as resistance from opression and segregation. Although it must be noted the term African American is more political and sociological in nature and does not posess as many traditionallaly African cultural traits of what is witnessed everyday in Dominican culture. Africans have similar chords to Merengue and Bachata (this is why Juan Luis guerra has preformed with African artists and meshed well toegher, he says he plays African music), similar foors to Dominicans, and similar folk culture like the "evil eye" etc. African American culture is funadamentally different because they were stripped of thier culutre and had to make thier own almost from scratch (some extrordinary ie jazz, soul food), rather than inheriting it as African culture was not entirely wiped out by the Spanish and the Catholic church.. by the way ask someone what a fulani is and where it comes from....

This is 2009 and our the president of the United States is a mullato like most Dominicans and nearly 75% or more of African Americans (the DNA test proved this). The 1800's spawned the Age of Enlightenment and with it the Haitian Revolution and Charles Darwin accompanied with Spencer and all of thier psudo science surrounding it such as Social Darwism and Chronology. But, as I said before it is 2009 cant we be honest of our true identities and by doing so does that negate we are of African descent, NO but wouldnt I be just as wrong to deny my Native American grandparents, and my Caucasian Welsh ancestor and say I am just BLACK YES? Also isnt this basically accepting a term that an "oppressor" put on you which was bascally a term replacemnet for negro which is an "object" not a human being. So in essence when a Dominican calls you a Morenito or Morena he is actaully respecting you. Does Charles Rangel always have to profess he is African American yet always help his Puerto Rican brothers in private and in secrecy , as you knwo he is half Puerto Rican, and he has houses there he hasnt paid on. I have watched people run this race card in the ground in the state and I am sick of it. Republicans play it to gain votes from whites while Democrats pander to black churches even acting as pulpit preachers ("cough" Clinton) and they gain thier votes. It was actually refreshing to go to the DR and see people actually try to learn WHO you are (intersts,music, rashion,hobbies) instead of assuming WHAT you are (democrat,Republican,Baptist,etcc..)according to your race, to put it frankly I am sick of it. People actually have thier entire identities defined by thier race and my parents and family told me WE WILL NOT DO IT...they say they are simply Mixed or American...if people call us black so be it..but no one is going to define me for thier own benefit...so why should you (plural) do it to some else? WEshould be thinking of moving forward as a people meaning black, white, mixed asian, and brown etc..or aka poor people changing the system by democracy to benefitting all. Right now everyone is suffering with this economy and black people the worst. So how is the term benefitting Blacks in the US except when a rich celebritiy can play the race card like, OJ or Micheal Jackson did to get people on thier side or racists play it like Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Al Sharpton, Joe Wilson etc to antagonize whites....?
to make this post relate to the DR what I mean is when Van Jones, or Bill Richardson (Latino Senator) was asked to resign like most black or Latino politicans asked to resign or give up a post, they just do it. Allejandro Williams of San Pedro Marcoris did something wrong and was arrogant to the end, was he presured to resign no (maybe he was holding some BIG cards), so in terms of comparing racism...the USA system is actually worse towards men of color.

As far as renaming Domincians, Black, Is is going to increase the GDP of DR? Make the DR more like Jamaica to draw more tourists? There are simply more important things to worry about like can Dominicans go to their own beaches??(oh by the way Black CUBANS cant go to thier own Beaches, most clubs, and before could not go to Hotels , thanks Fidel for the absence of racism(sarcasm))? Also can American help Haiti to releave the DR of being the only country to help Haitans yet accusing Domincians of Racism....that is a smoke screen to hide America doesnt accept Haitians, nor give them aid, education etc..
To me these thigns are so much more important than someone saying I am black....matter of fact it isnt doing anything for black in the states accept exploiting people through BET, getting voting blacks and districts, and marketing ploys with high insterests rates, etereotyping, and also putting it on an application can get your resume thrown in the trash before it is seen.

By the way Cocolo's are the majority (or one of them) in San Pedro de Marcoris and African American descendants have lived in Samana for more than a century and sepak english adn practice a different Christianity, are they discriminated against, No. Also if you find Racism in towns like San Juan de Mangua (clsoe to the border), I will personally fly down with you to see it myself (also dont you see Haitains and Dominicans playing dominoes in el campo??). Also have you seen the new reaggaton dominicano hip hop groups...with names like reales negrones , jotanegro,monkey black, they seem to go along with the African American ideology of race.SO Thankdie I dont think you can even say the majority of Dominicans feel as if you say they do..Also many African Americans I talk to ehre is the south...want their kids to have "good hair" and "redbone traits" and msot African AMerican women have perms and weaves this si why Chris Rock made a documentary about Black Hair. On Current tv you have Jamaicans, Ghanians, Indians, African Americans, all using bleaching creams available in any African American neighborhood. What I am trying to say is there are smart and ignorant (meaning uneducated) people all over the world, that is life, therea re even white people who want to be black. I dont see it in Dominican culture as you do. Also Jamaicans call mulatto guys "whiteboy" and most mixed people who would be "black" in the USA. Race is a joke and how dare Americans who are branwashed by the one drop rule try to impose the constructed form of race on another country. Ironicall this form of classification was adopted by Isreal to put call the Falasha Jews Black and now they are impoverished and classified and subjegated, I believe if labels were finally absent human society would and is insured to progress.

Haiti as I said before should be helped so that they do not have to cross into the DR.. I have interview Haitains and beleive it or not they actually want to return to Haiti one day. We all know they cant go to the USA due to the black label placed on the country of origin that is labeled upon your visa application. Clinton and Leonel recently pleaded with countries for aid and hopefully Russia will donate funds but America should also donate if not for charity simply for stability, stability in DR, stability as far as criminal organizations as thier activities of smuggling drugs and guns through Haiti, stability in Illlegal immigration, etc.. The fact is Dominicans should not eb burdened as a country (yes I live in America), with having to compensate for failed American intervention (ie Clinton=Aristide etc) in a failed state. AMericans can come up with 13 billion dollars to Afganistan due to it being on Russia's border so since Haiti is on America's border supplying drugs and weapons shouldnt we monitor all of our borders land or sea? I am always amazed that American G.O.'s NGO's & churches can fly to Indonesia after a Tsunamni yet when Haiti,Mexico, or DR has a huricane ....they usually dont life a finger (ironically Fat Joe the rapper and Wyclef do). Also if Haiti could teach many of thier children the skill of grant and fund writing...possibly they could find philantropists such as Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. (trying to stay on topic) Also a Haitian female friend who lives in NYC said that Haiti needs someone who rules with an iron fist. She said haitians are strong people and need a strong politicains who enforces strict rules when things get better if they do perhaps this could be possible.

Thanks .

 

[gemenilaidback]

ooh by the way I get labeled an "Uncle Tom" frequently when I refer to myself as American...who happens to be of Dominican descent as do my sisters (who went to a white universities Pitt U & Fl. State , UVA Law and joined white sororities), My father, My mother, and my nieces...we dont care. The funny thing is most of the black extremists dont know anything about the fulani or any of the other ethnic groups in west or east Africa (identities, facial features,customs, food ) they might be related to...go figure?? In fact most when invited in my home wont even eat my food. Which is an insult in African and Dominican culture.
I have also had African friend who had the same label and werent accepted into the larger african American southern Baptist family, in fact they are not accepted at all and will actually help a white american before an African immigrant. In other words anyone can be racist, Black or white.

The funny thing about these pro black scholars is there is a good book called "Black Behind the Ears" and according to Candelario's interviews and first hand research all of her evidence negates all stereotypes they have about Dominicans so called "self hate", and thier simplistic views about racism, and labeling the world as black and white. The author Candelario actually comes to the conclusion Dominican ideas and practices of race are complex, requires a large conceptual framework, a triangular geography of knowledge, and a cultural history formed by Dominican nation-building projects, the difficult plight of the Haitian Republic in the midst of a negrophobic world"" Most people never put this much effort into even trying understanding any of these complex ideas.

Amazon.com: Black behind the Ears: Dominican Racial Identity from Museums to Beauty Shops (9780822340379): Ginetta E. B.Candelario: Books