does anyone have the answer to this

[Chip00]

Nals

I don't care about Slims nor Gates morality - all I care about is paying too much to for phone service,etc. here in the DR because the government allows monopolies.

FYI Gates isn't beloved in the Western world as much as one may think. His company, Microsoft is getting sued in the European Union for manipulating the market. Do you think that would ever happen here to Verizon/Codetel/Edenorte etc. - ha!

 

[joseinoa]

none of this information really matters NALs because at the end of the day whether its Slim, Gates or Buffet these people are still billionares thanks to the hard working class of today. the only difference is gates and buffet finally realized that they will never in a billion years under normal circumstances will they be able to spend all of their money.

 

[joseinoa]

it doesn't really matter NALs because at the end of the day whether its slim, gates, or buffet these guys are still "podrio en cuarto" how some of us say, and its all thanks to hard working people like us. the only difference is that gates and buffet realized that not even in a million years under normal circumstances will they ever be able to spend their fortunes.

 

[NALs]

none of this information really matters NALs because at the end of the day whether its Slim, Gates or Buffet these people are still billionares thanks to the hard working class of today. the only difference is gates and buffet finally realized that they will never in a billion years under normal circumstances will they be able to spend all of their money.

FYI: People don't accumulate money for the purpose of spending it all in one lifetime.

Many have other things in mind such as:

Influence and power (money helps alot in this arena)
Family legacy
Well being of future family members
Etc etc etc

Only people who are never going to be millionares (or in this case billionares) would look at money at something to spend. For that reason so many people are in debt, they spend even the money they don't own!!!

Basically, no one lives for the sake of survival. If that was the case, we would all be living in caves and never had evolved the complex societies we have created which give us more bang for the limited time we are on this earth!

As for the comment that they are billionares because of the working class, ah no. They are billionares because they had the courage and desire to dictate how they were going to live their lives rather than having other people control them. And in the case of Buffet, he made money in the stock market!

Wealthy people are wealthy, for the most part, because they were born into such position and LEARNED how to maintain themselves there OR they were born in the lower classes and had enough stamina, desire, and courage to do what they wanted and actually follow through with their plans.

Working class people are in the working class because many are too content living paycheck to paycheck. They may complain, but they do nothing to alleviate their situation, thus such complaints are full of hot air.

-NALs

 

[NALs]

Nals

I don't care about Slims nor Gates morality - all I care about is paying too much to for phone service,etc. here in the DR because the government allows monopolies.

The US allows monopolies as well. Take a closer look at your country of origin, you're bound to discover them.

-NALs

 

[arturo]

Not particularly charitable?

Well, what do we mean by the word 'charitable'? Do we mean hand outs or giving people career opportunities and a chance to feel pride in themselves, bring home a paycheck, and be productive?

As of December 31, 2005:

1. America Movil offered a valuable and necessary telecommunications service to 100 million wireless subscribers, plus 2 million fixed-line clients. What would those 102 million people do if such service was not offered?



All of this from a company founded in the year 2000!

Yeup, he's not charitable enough, especially when we compare the amount of money the average joe gives for charitable purposes. I'm sure its an amount larger than all the wealth America Movil has created for its shareholders and employees, not to mention the much needed service it offers to millions of customers.:cheeky:

-NALs

1. Is it reasonable by any objective measure to compare someone with $60 billion to "the average Joe?."

 

[Chip00]

The US allows monopolies as well. Take a closer look at your country of origin, you're bound to discover them.

-NALs

To some extent, maybe so. However, the difference is they are not typically allowed by law and violaters are thoroughly prosecuted by law. The so called "allowable" monolopies are where there are power companies and things as such. However, these are regulated to the government and prices are set according to a number of input and the process is typically transparent, ie open to the public. Even so, power(like a lot of things in the US) IS LOT CHEAPER THAN THE DR - so where does you're argument go - nowhere.

BTW - is that supposed to make me feel better that I am paying 18 times the market value for my phone service here in the DR, huh?????? Where are the laws and committees here to protect the consumer????? Are you telling me that that is ok?????????

 

[NALs]

1. Is it reasonable by any objective measure to compare someone with $60 billion to "the average Joe?."

Hmm, people who give when they hardly have for themselves usually continue to do so if they make a fortune. The true is vice-versa.

A person who barely devotes 1% of his income to "charitable" purposes when he was making 20,000 will certainly not devote 1% of his income if he was a billionaire.

While 1% of 20,000 will have a different effect on the lifestyle of such person vs. 1% of a million dollars in income; a peoples actions tend to remain consistent as their incomes increases.

Similarly, a person who lives a highly leveraged lifestyle earning 50k a year, such person dreams of earning more to live a less leveraged life, but the truth is that such person will always live a highly leveraged lifestyle, even if he makes 1 million dollars a year!

Why? It's not how much money you make or have, but what you do with it that counts.

A person who earns 20k and makes no effort to give for charitable purposes has no right to complain about a mogul doing the exact samething. He wouldn't be much different if they were to trade places one day.

-NALs

 

[NALs]

To some extent, maybe so. However, the difference is they are not typically allowed by law and violaters are thoroughly prosecuted by law. The so called "allowable" monolopies are where there are power companies and things as such. However, these are regulated to the government and prices are set according to a number of input and the process is typically transparent, ie open to the public. Even so, power(like a lot of things in the US) IS LOT CHEAPER THAN THE DR - so where does you're argument go - nowhere.

BTW - is that supposed to make me feel better that I am paying 18 times the market value for my phone service here in the DR, huh?????? Where are the laws and committees here to protect the consumer????? Are you telling me that that is ok?????????

Among many things the US has massive economies of scale and the five major economic markets within the US can be reached via the cheapest mode of transportation.

Not so in the DR.

Economies of scale are quite limited and in some sectors they don't exist at all and since the DR has to import many manufactured goods and primary inputs to various "dominican" products; the cost of transportation is the highest there can be because goods arrive the DR one of two ways: airplane or sea shipping and both are more expensive than trucking! Guess who pays for such high transportation costs?

That's one of the problem of living on an island, regardless of the development level of such society!

Look at Hawaii, everything is more expensive than on the mainland US, wonder why? Hmm...

As for the electricity companies, thats the result of massive theft on the part of the consumers and a tiny minority of paying customers who pay for their and everybody else's use of electricity. Lack of enforcement and prosecution to those who steal electricity leads to an inefficient industry, this is a no brainer!

The same reason why taxes are so high, those who evade it are hurting everyone. A classic example of a benefit incurred by a particular person, the costs are spread to the entire society.

Many of the economic issues in the DR are the same as that of people who own a car and those who don't.

The owner of the car gains the benefit of traveling at will and faster with limited privacy and control. The costs and externalities of such car are paid by the society through the pollution of the atmosphere, traffic jams, increased noise pollution, etc.

-NALs

 

[arturo]

that's a fair point, however...

Hmm, people who give when they hardly have for themselves usually continue to do so if they make a fortune. The true is vice-versa.

A person who barely devotes 1% of his income to "charitable" purposes when he was making 20,000 will certainly not devote 1% of his income if he was a billionaire.

While 1% of 20,000 will have a different effect on the lifestyle of such person vs. 1% of a million dollars in income; a peoples actions tend to remain consistent as their incomes increases.

Similarly, a person who lives a highly leveraged lifestyle earning 50k a year, such person dreams of earning more to live a less leveraged life, but the truth is that such person will always live a highly leveraged lifestyle, even if he makes 1 million dollars a year!

Why? It's not how much money you make or have, but what you do with it that counts.

A person who earns 20k and makes no effort to give for charitable purposes has no right to complain about a mogul doing the exact samething. He wouldn't be much different if they were to trade places one day.

-NALs

Tax laws in many developed countries provide compelling incentives for the wealthy to make charitable contributions. The deductions don't generally favor people in the lower wage ranks, so donating a proportionate percentage as someone who can deduct the cost of a charity ball or a raffle for a luxury automobile is not an entirely fair comparison.

On the other hand, your premise seems more valid in the context of Bill Gates convening a group of his similarly wealthy friends to campaign against repealing the American inheritance taxes. That's a position more commonly associated with people with significantly less to inherit or pass down.

 

[NALs]

Tax laws in many developed countries provide compelling incentives for the wealthy to make charitable contributions. The deductions don't generally favor people in the lower wage ranks, so donating a proportionate percentage as someone who can deduct the cost of a charity ball or a raffle for a luxury automobile is not an entirely fair comparison.

Actually, it is a fair comparison, because if such incentive were not in place, such people would not be motivated to donate more than they would have under normal circumstances.

In other words, a person who never donates money will not do it, regardless if such person has ten thousand dollars to his name or one million!

The tax advantage reduces the "good will" nature of those charitable contributions. Take away such advantages and people react according to their desires and not an artificially induced one.

-NALs

 

[Chip00]

Among many things the US has massive economies of scale and the five major economic markets within the US can be reached via the cheapest mode of transportation.

Not so in the DR.

Economies of scale are quite limited and in some sectors they don't exist at all and since the DR has to import many manufactured goods and primary inputs to various "dominican" products; the cost of transportation is the highest there can be because goods arrive the DR one of two ways: airplane or sea shipping and both are more expensive than trucking! Guess who pays for such high transportation costs?

That's one of the problem of living on an island, regardless of the development level of such society!

Look at Hawaii, everything is more expensive than on the mainland US, wonder why? Hmm...

As for the electricity companies, thats the result of massive theft on the part of the consumers and a tiny minority of paying customers who pay for their and everybody else's use of electricity. Lack of enforcement and prosecution to those who steal electricity leads to an inefficient industry, this is a no brainer!

The same reason why taxes are so high, those who evade it are hurting everyone. A classic example of a benefit incurred by a particular person, the costs are spread to the entire society.

Many of the economic issues in the DR are the same as that of people who own a car and those who don't.

The owner of the car gains the benefit of traveling at will and faster with limited privacy and control. The costs and externalities of such car are paid by the society through the pollution of the atmosphere, traffic jams, increased noise pollution, etc.

-NALs

I was simply making a point about that power companies in the US might be considered by some as a type of monopoly.

All the other comments have NOTHING to do with why the SOB's in power here don't care to regulate monopolies.

As far as telephone service goes, yes I'm sure the material they import may be taxed more but remember that the US buys wire and components from China so that argument doesn't hold much water.

Noe of your arguments do not care to address the fact that we are still PAYING 18 TIMES MORE than the market value for phone service!!!!!

 

[NALs]

I was simply making a point about that power companies in the US might be considered by some as a type of monopoly.

All the other comments have NOTHING to do with why the SOB's in power here don't care to regulate monopolies.

As far as telephone service goes, yes I'm sure the material they import may be taxed more but remember that the US buys wire and components from China so that argument doesn't hold much water.

Noe of your arguments do not care to address the fact that we are still PAYING 18 TIMES MORE than the market value for phone service!!!!!

Do you remember the times when Balaguer was in power? I won't be surprised if you don't, heck I won't be surprised if you didn't know anything about the DR in those years.

Do you know what Gulf & Western used to do in the 1970s?

First of all, Gulf & Western was a multinational corporation based in Manhattan. They no longer exist, but the Trump International Tower on Columbus Circle used to be their global headquarters before the real estate giant acquired the property and turned into into a luxury hotel/residences mix.

Gulf & Western owned tremendous swaths of land in the eastern part of the DR, including every inch of land that belongs to the Central Romana sugar mill. They were in the sugar business and they were the one's who began to develop the Casa de Campo resort. In fact, the Altos de Chavon replica was built as a gift by the owner of the company to his daughter.

Whatever Gulf and Western said in the DR virtually became law and why wouldn't? The company's revenue was many times larger than the entire budget for the Dominican government.

They even lended Balaguer their company jets for him to travel abroad and such.

That's called POWER, real power.

Weak developing country goverments of tiny islands on an American lake are no match for powerful multinational corporations.

Most quasi-monopoly companies in the DR are either subsidiary of foreign multinational, many of which are American, or are local companies working in partnership with massive foreign based multinational corporations (ie. Altria, Colgate-Palmolive, Royal Dutch-Shell, until recently Verizon, etc). These are companies that are many times more wealthy and powerful than the Dominican government.

And its not as if the Dominican government doesn't regulate the market, there have been prosecutions against injustices commited by some businessmen. The problem is that some people are untouchable, because of special interests.

Add to that the constraint the Dominican market has on its own and voila.
-NALs

 

[joseinoa]

are you kidding me

Buffet made his money in stocks we all know that, now what do you think the stock market is driven by: companies who provide goods and services, and who purchases these goods and services...................your silence is understood. no customers = a non existing stock market. we are officially right back where we started.

 

[NALs]

Buffet made his money in stocks we all know that, now what do you think the stock market is driven by: companies who provide goods and services, and who purchases these goods and services...................your silence is understood. no customers = a non existing stock market. we are officially right back where we started.

Let's see:

A company is born and it offers a product to potential customers. Depending on the product, the customer can be typical joes, people who are broke, or multi-millionaires.

If the company is successful, it will find a need to expand.

Where does the company gets the investment capital to successfully expand?

By going public is one way. That means incorporation and selling stock to raise sufficient funds for expansion.

From that point forward to who is the firm more loyal, it's customers or its stockholders?

It's customers are great, but many would put up with slight inconveniences. Stockholders on the other hand won't, they are the one's with the important money and they can take it away and destroy the company in an instant.

Under a panic the stock market goes through tremendous volatility and guess what?

Regardless how many loyal customers a corporation may have, if its investment money is not forthcoming or if its stock price collapses, it could have been the most liked company by customers, the wrath of the stockholder will cause it to collapse.

Customers are important, but more important are the investors. Buffet made his billions because he played the stock market game and he knew what he was doing.

Those companies would have had customers whether he played the game or not, but he played the game and he won many times over.

His actions dictated the type of life he was going to live. Everything else is secondary to the importance of his actions and self-confidence.

He is responsible for everything that has happened to him, good or bad. The same holds true for everybody.

-NALs

 

[Chip00]

Do you remember the times when Balaguer was in power? I won't be surprised if you don't, heck I won't be surprised if you didn't know anything about the DR in those years.

Do you know what Gulf & Western used to do in the 1970s?

First of all, Gulf & Western was a multinational corporation based in Manhattan. They no longer exist, but the Trump International Tower on Columbus Circle used to be their global headquarters before the real estate giant acquired the property and turned into into a luxury hotel/residences mix.

Gulf & Western owned tremendous swaths of land in the eastern part of the DR, including every inch of land that belongs to the Central Romana sugar mill. They were in the sugar business and they were the one's who began to develop the Casa de Campo resort. In fact, the Altos de Chavon replica was built as a gift by the owner of the company to his daughter.

Whatever Gulf and Western said in the DR virtually became law and why wouldn't? The company's revenue was many times larger than the entire budget for the Dominican government.

They even lended Balaguer their company jets for him to travel abroad and such.

That's called POWER, real power.

Weak developing country goverments of tiny islands on an American lake are no match for powerful multinational corporations.

Most quasi-monopoly companies in the DR are either subsidiary of foreign multinational, many of which are American, or are local companies working in partnership with massive foreign based multinational corporations (ie. Altria, Colgate-Palmolive, Royal Dutch-Shell, until recently Verizon, etc). These are companies that are many times more wealthy and powerful than the Dominican government.

And its not as if the Dominican government doesn't regulate the market, there have been prosecutions against injustices commited by some businessmen. The problem is that some people are untouchable, because of special interests.

Add to that the constraint the Dominican market has on its own and voila.
-NALs

Does the fact that I'm a recent immigrant to the country have to do with the fact that Verizon/Codetel is robbing the hell out of the people here?

You sound like one of the politicians here who are ALWAYS making excuses or changing the subject.

How in the hell are we ever going to go forward in this country when we have archaic thinkers like you defending gross abuses???? ...or maybe it's that own Verizon stock!

 

[NALs]

Does the fact that I'm a recent immigrant to the country have to do with the fact that Verizon/Codetel is robbing the hell out of the people here?

You sound like one of the politicians here who are ALWAYS making excuses or changing the subject.

How in the hell are we ever going to go forward in this country when we have archaic thinkers like you defending gross abuses???? ...or maybe it's that own Verizon stock!

Could Verizon had treated the Dominican market the sameway it treats its American market?

Why didn't they do that?

Afterall, they are an American company and supposedly adhere to American values, some of which are imposed by the US government. One would think they would export such "values" to every country they do business with, no?

-NALs

 

[joseinoa]

listen guys its not just happening with verizon/codetel it happens with everything in the country ie. look at food prices, cars: i can get a nicely used car in the states for less than 3 grand 98 and up. you might find it here in the dr but nothing under 250k. look at what Ochoa is doing with construction materials 2 months ago me and a friend went to buy some wood in Ochoa for a project we spent 6k pesos. same thing at Home Depot would have cost us about 90 dollars do the math. its not just Ochoa. Hache and Bellon do the same thing. im not even going to argue clothing and electronics otherwise we will keep going with this forever.

 

[AnnaC]

Are you people forgetting you're on an Island and everything except platanos have to be shipped in .

How many people have invested millions through the years trying to establish a business there and gone home broke and disillusioned?

If you had millions and wanted to start a business in the DR are you going to give it all away because there are poor people living there or are you looking to make a profit with your millions.

Crap I remember when a collect call to Canada was $30.00 for a few minutes and there was no junk food.

So you have to pay a little more to have telephone service and internet? When exactly did they get internet in the DR? You're lucky that you have these services at all.




Ok I'm finished ranting now

 

[Chris]

Noe of your arguments do not care to address the fact that we are still PAYING 18 TIMES MORE than the market value for phone service!!!!!

Which market's value ? :cheeky: