- Thread starter Eleutheria
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Dominican American Experience
Second generation Dominicans are usually included, at least in NYC. There is data about 2nd generation educational attainment. A tale of two cities. High drop out rates, but college attainment levels vastly higher than their parents, and on par with migrants from Haiti and the English speaking. Males VERY underrepresented in these college grads though.
A high % of Jamaican and Haitian women are nurses, or in advanced admin support positions. They are more educated than are Dominican females, and have higher levels of English language competencies. There is a difference between the lower middle class, and the working class.
Jamaicans and Haitian households have higher median incomes than the average foreign born, and about 90% of native born NYers. This suggests that their household incomes will be significantly higher than those of African Americans and Puerto Ricans, given that the median HH income of whites will be much higher. This given the high % of whites occupying high income occupations.
The reality is that Dominican born females are less likely to be in the labor force than Jamaican born or Haitian born females. This, plus the overall considerably lower level of educational attainment of Dominicans on the whole, means that Dominican households have lower median incomes.
I don't know what benefit being black brings to Jamaicans and Haitians. Ask a NYer to describe a Dominican and they will say that they speak Spanish and are blacker than are Puerto Ricans. Given that Jamaican and Haitian households in NYC have higher median income, I am not sure what they are getting from African Americans that Dominicans don't get.
I do know that the whole battery of civil rights legislature, that AAs valiantly have fought for over the past century, has benefitted these non Hispanic Caribbean immigrants, but I do know that Dominicans have benefitted from this. As indeed they have from the equally valiant struggles of earlier waves of Puerto Rican migrants to NY.
The extent that Jamaicans/Haitians benefit from AA political institutions is offset by the fact that Dominicans also benefit from those established by Hispanics. And also by those same AA institutions, given that a high % of Dominicans are seen as "black" even if they don't define themselves. I have seen Dominicans receive college scholarships awarded by AA social organizations.
BTW Zoe Saldana, a US born female of Dominican descent, is playing the role of the AA icon Nina Simone. In fact to under score my point about how Dominicans are perceived, until recently she was all but confined to playing "black" roles. She definitely benefitted from the struggle by AAs to get better roles in Hollywood for black women. This, even though Saldana probably doesnt see herself as being "black".
A. Too many given not enough provens
B. If Dominicans are being given scholarships by Black organizations it is because they applied for them. And almost all of those scholarships have requirements or reservations for Black folks only, so by applying for the scholarships they are self-identifying as Black
C. I have never heard of any such thing as a Hispanic Civil Rights Organization. All of the ones that tout that claim "civil rights" usually are only concerned with assimilation and immigration issues.
D. If you have been following Zoe Saldana's career or even the cultural significance of Nina Simone in the Black community you would see most reviews of the movie and her portrayal are horrible.
E. Median incomes are relative to the population. If the median income of Nigerians is higher than American black folk in NJ it means nothing if we know there are only 1,000 Nigerians in New Jersey and they are all physicians. The average occupation of the average Black American person on NJ lowers their median income. For every Black Colonel in the State Police there is some Burger King employees on Work-Fare. And it is the same for Jamaicans and Haitians in NYC. Too many givens not enough provens. Most of the Black folks in the US of respectable income earn it in the public sector(government jobs). You will seldom find foreign born Black folks at the higher levels in those agencies(excluding Colin Powell).
F. Lower middle class IS working class.
What's wrong with Dominicans? Man-oh-man, they're a breed apart!
Consider:
Just last week I observed a Dominican man not wearing a watch, while attempting to walk up a hill.
To say it was a complete failure would be an understatement of undescribable proportions.
Why?
Here's why: Dude had neither the time nor the inclination.
And that ain't nothin'; not by a long shot.
A week prior to the Super Bowl, I was inside an elevator when I overheard a Dumbminican mumble something unintelligible.
His words, not mine: "Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?"
The well-to-do, and obviously highly educated and professionally attired gentleman in front of him replied with a chuckle, "I think you are trying to ask if it's hot in here."
Another rich-looking gentleman whispered, "Jesus Christ, where do they get these people?"
I smiled and said, "Dude's Dumbminican."
Consider:
Just last week I observed a Dominican man not wearing a watch, while attempting to walk up a hill.
To say it was a complete failure would be an understatement of undescribable proportions.
Why?
Here's why: Dude had neither the time nor the inclination.
And that ain't nothin'; not by a long shot.
A week prior to the Super Bowl, I was inside an elevator when I overheard a Dumbminican mumble something unintelligible.
His words, not mine: "Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?"
The well-to-do, and obviously highly educated and professionally attired gentleman in front of him replied with a chuckle, "I think you are trying to ask if it's hot in here."
Another rich-looking gentleman whispered, "Jesus Christ, where do they get these people?"
I smiled and said, "Dude's Dumbminican."
There are Puerto Rican civil rights associations, ASPIRA being one and there are others. There is also a whole Puerto Rican political infrastructure in NYC. These are no less effective than are the black entities.
Scholarships which Dominicans get are given to them because they are seen as "black". It is also illegal to discriminate by race. The focus on blacks only occurs because the pool of candidates, who will be interested, are either blacks, or those who operate within the same socio economic environments. In NYC blacks and Hispanics go to the same schools.
Zoe Saldana is seen as a "black woman" as almost all of her earlier roles are of a black woman. She had to fight to be allowed to play Hispanic roles. Only since she has made a mark for herself did this become possible.
Given that black women are a very diverse group one cannot say that because she failed to convincingly portray Nina Simone that she failed to convey black women. In fact I would be pleasantly surprised if Kerry Washington did any better a job.
The issue with Zoe isn't because she is Latin. Its because she is light skinned, and some thought such a person to be inappropriate for the role, given that much of Simone's issues were about ebing a dark skinned very African featured female.
NYC has the largest concentration of Jamaicans, and Dominicans, and the second largest concentration of Haitians. We can pretty much deduce the socio economic standings of each group in NYC by looking at the statistics. The point about Nigerians in NJ is irrelevant.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015...rtrait-of-the-u-s-black-immigrant-population/
Note that median household incomes, nationwide among black immigrants, exceeds that of native blacks. Note that the data for Caribbean blacks includes Hispanic blacks and Haitians, whose incomes trail those from the English speaking Caribbean, and often US born blacks as well. Despite this Caribbean black households had higher median incomes.
I suspect that the vast majority of the South American blacks included will be from Guyana, which is considered a South American nation for the purposes of this data. I suspect that the median household income from the English speaking Islands will more closely reflect that South American number.
http://www.blackenterprise.com/money/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/
It is beyond doubt that black immigrant households out earn that of US born blacks. This is not a debatable point. What can be debated is the reasons why.
I have cited evidence based on 3rd party data. I will be interested in 3rd party data from you to refute these points.
The answer is NOTHING. Buffoons can come in all colors, genders, and socio economic levels, and indeed Donald Trump is evidence of that.
The main issue that limits the household income is the low educational attainment of those who migrate to NYC, and the lower than average female labor force participation rates.
I saw some statistics for males and females in St Kitts Nevis. Even there females earned over 90% of the average incomes of men, and had similar labor force participation rates.
So there maybe cultural reasons as to why females from the English speaking Caribbean and Haiti are differently positioned from those from the Dominican Rep. In fact if one goes to any black civic group (American or non Hispanic Caribbean) females are very visible in their presence, and even amongst the leadership. Is that true for Dominican civic organizations in NYC? Not from what I can see. So it might be that Dominican females have less space to do things than their Caribbean sisters.
Stats means nothing and they are worthless because numbers are always "figurative"...they are comparing IMMIGRATING BLACK PEOPLE WHO TYPICALLY HAVE EDUCATION to the entire US Black population. The ones without education dont get good jobs and they only have higher households income by having multiple bread earners in the residence. One look at the Mexican and Colombian influx in Jackson Heights and you see how it is possible but also how disastrous that is. 12 people living in one apartment in a row of woodframe houses?
A. Most affluent American Black folks dont live immediately in NYC, but in the surrounding areas Nassau County, Westchester County, Essex County, & Connecticut. And like I said about Nigerians in NJ you cant compare a small population with the entire Black population. There are people with MDs and JDs which raise the stats as well as home health aides and burgermeisters which lower them. My father lives in Connecticut now with all them bourgeoise Black folks with their Camry Volvos and Cosby sweaters.
B. Also with almost ALL of these immigrants households the stats are skewed because there is usually more than 3 income earners in the home which allows them to buy those worthless homes that they do purchase. And dont be mistaken the homes ares useless. A $5,000 home built in 1940 selling for $449,000? Thats BS.
Additionally the majority of US Black folk work in the public sector which enabled them to buy homes in the areas where the immigrant Black folks lived because no where will you find any immigrant Black folk striking out on their own blindly buying homes in White neighborhoods. It happens occasionally but usually ends in unnecessary stress for the immigrant Black home owner.
We are discussing immigrant groups. We aren't talking about a holistic analysis of Caribbean vs. American blacks. So yes black immigrants, now almost 10% of the total US black population, so hardly a small group, do have higher median incomes.
Any way Caribbean immigrants have similar educational attainment level as do AAs. It is in fact likely that more of them haven't completed 12 years of education.
And the links that I provided refer to the entire US. So they compare the entire US based Caribbean and African immigrant populations, with the entire US black. So this isn't just the urban ghetto US born population that is being compared.
You go off on an emotional rant about black immigrants not daring to buy homes in white areas? Aside from having no proof of this, it is an established fact that black immigrants, being more na?ve about racism in the USA, than are AAs, will more likely buy a home that they like, rather than being concerned about whether there are other blacks around.
In fact in NYC it is the black IMMIGRANTS, rather than the native born, which often integrate white ethnic enclaves. Canarsie.and Flatlands in Brooklyn being examples. I suspect the same applied to the white neighborhoods which bordered Long Island. I certainly heard AAs disparage Haitians and Jamaicans in the early 80s, when they moved Queen's Village and similar areas that AAs traditionally avoided, preferring St Albans.
You go off on an emotional rant about black immigrants not daring to buy homes in white areas? Aside from having no proof of this, it is an established fact that black immigrants, being more na?ve about racism in the USA, than are AAs, will more likely buy a home that they like, rather than being concerned about whether there are other blacks around.
In fact in NYC it is the black IMMIGRANTS, rather than the native born, which often integrate white ethnic enclaves. Canarsie.and Flatlands in Brooklyn being examples. I suspect the same applied to the white neighborhoods which bordered Long Island. I certainly heard AAs disparage Haitians and Jamaicans in the early 80s, when they moved Queen's Village and similar areas that AAs traditionally avoided, preferring St Albans.
absolutely true. it was caribbean people who started the integration of Elmont, NY, for example. i can attest to that, having been one of them.
Sounds good. All things being equal...but...........those neighborhoods you mention are special category neighborhoods. All those neighborhoods in Queens you mentioned are in the JFK Flight Pattern. What does that mean? It means they bought houses the white folks didnt want to live in as Kennedy got busier. The other ones, Canarsie and Flatlands and ALL of the other Southern Queens neighborhoods are on the coastal flood plain. All of those homes you mention 240th St, Brookville Blvd, you ever notice why the streets are lumpy and uneven? Every time you get more than 4" of rain the streets are flooded. You didnt integrate that neighborhood. Those white folk sold you their problem as they moved to greener pastures. Show me where you move to Bedford Hills or Scarsdale and not just changing enclaves in New Rochelle or Mamaroneck where Black folk move into declining suburban cities as the white folks either create new ones for themselves or leave the state altogether. Or show me the tract of similar home ownership in Monmouth or Morris County, NJ. In any event if you waited long enough to buy those homes those white folks would have sold them back to the Indians they stole it from. BTW, did you notice the line of demarcation for homes in Queens runs along the Cross Island Parkway on both sides where the majority of Black own homes are located below the Long Island Expressway, specifically Union Turnpike? Why? So when are you going to move into the all-white neighborhoods man? How can you integrate the Queens side of Floral Park but NOT the Nassau County side of Floral Park? How does that happen? Even in Nassau County most of the Black homeownership is around or below the Southern State Expressway.
This thread is about Dominicans, not black immigrants. Keep all posts specific to Dominicans or they will be deleted.
Think you are being quite harsh with Dominicans. In the NY area Mexicans and Central Americans have lower median household incomes, and their kids seem less likely to attend college.
In fact Dominicans have done well in owning independent super markets, livery car services, especially.
Not sure how this is relevant, given that these areas are no more likely to have native blacks than they are to have Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Jamaicans, Haitians, etc.