Dominicans in the U.S. Can you identify?

[DOMINICANUSA]

Total agree RGVgal - I grew up with white mexicans.

From online: White Mexican is a Mexican citizen of European descent. Although Mexico does not have a racial census, some international organizations believe that Mexican people of full European descent make nearly one-fifth[1] of the country's population, or about 20 million people, thus making Mexico's white population the third largest in Latin America, after only those of Brazil and Argentina, respectively. They are found in all regions of the country, but are most common in the northern, central and western states. In addition, castizos and some mestizos (especially those with predominantly European features) may, in some cases, be considered white as well.

Mr. Saunders,

Before this thread gets sidetracked further, I am not generalizing Mexicans as having one particular 'look'. I am telling you what the commonly held perception of their supposed 'look' is here on the East Coast. If you substitute East Coast for West Coast, and Dominican for Mexican, you'll get a similar stereotype. The stereotype here is fueled by the thousands of Mexican immigrants they see, the stereotype on the West Coast is fueled by Dominican baseball players.
At least Mexicans can showcase the diversity of their women, if a Dominican posts one too many woman of pred. European extraction they will be attacked by the 'black police' who patrol the world to make sure everyone is reping their 'blackness' correctly.

 

[Ezequiel]

Colorism=...umm...infighting?.... That revolves around whiteness representing a higher strata of society. All over the world you will see it. India, Asia, Many parts of Africa, Europe, The Middle East, All of Latin America and the U.S. and Canada do not stay behind.

Basically in all of these areas, beauty ideals are centered around apparent eurocentricity--the lighter, more silky-haired and finer-featured the better. And the media plays to these ideals, putting only the lightest, finest featured at the forefront while having the other darker people play scant background, lesser characters. Its an infallible equation at this point.

LA Novelas all have the same formula. Asian ones too. Indian cinema is known for it. Everyone does. Why? I do not know, but we as Dominicans are not any less prone to succumbing so here we are.

Its so pervasive that we rarely even notice it. We see it as normal for a minority of the worlds population to be seen as the "important and pretty ones". Yes, there are exceptions...many of them...but sometimes its the exceptions that prove the rule.

I won't judge the majority of the world for it because its obviously a tremendous pull and not exclusive to any particular history or factors. The disturbing part is that the majority of the world will never fit those ideals.

Where that leaves us I do not know. I can only speak for myself. I'm so done with the ladders and levels and casts that we humans are so prone to institute. Maybe I will go live in the campo and forget about it all.


Ricardo, yep. I have been looked down on largely by other Latin Americans. I have had several tell me I am more closely related to a Trinidadian than them. We have these romanticized eurocentric ideals and if you happen to be like most dominicans who are brown, its common to be snubbed by the "whiter" Latin Americans.

I don't know where you and Ricardo live or had lived before but here in Atlanta where I live and in New York City and New Jersey where i had lived I have never experienced any kind of racism by others Hispanics or Latinos,
I'm not black but am not white either.

I have a Dominican friend, he is black from Barahona and almost all his Hispanic friends are South Americans from Argentina, Peru and Colombia and he has never experienced racism either.

You may experience racism from other Latin Americans if you are Hispanic and you can't speak Spanish or if you think just because you speak English without an accent you are better NOT for being a Black Dominican.

I have noticed that Dominicans born and raised here in U.S. or brought here when they were little are very Acomplejado and are very sensitive, don't know why but a lot of them have issues.

 

[POPNYChic]

The funny thing about this thread is no one has complained of racism...but thats what people are getting defensive about. Where are the claims of victimhood and "oh how terrible everyone else kept me down, its everyones fault but mine" statements? Nowhere. I have no complaints. Only observations.

And what is actually valid introspection and questioning, is "complejos"? Only thousands of scholars and millions of people have questioned the same things. I wonder why soooo many books have been written on the subject.but let me guess...if you havent read them, they dont exist either? Thats why we have brains. Critical thinking is our friend. Again just because its never occurred to you doesnt mean others lives wont lead them there. Its hard to take off our blinders at times.

Should someone state their experiences, that dont equate with those of a few others, then its just unheard of? No. We dont all see the same people, live in the same places.

Most of my friends are white and black americans and hispanics from all over LA. Does that mean I and others havent come across some less savory folks? Nope. One truth doesnt negate the other. Its just life. There are usually not just 2 but about 978685 sides to a coin depending on how and what youre looking at.

 

[Ezequiel]

I have been looked down on largely by other Latin Americans

You have to ask yourselves what are you doing wrong that other/some Latin Americans had looked down on you, maybe you get offended to easily?

I have Dominican friends and family in different state and I wonder why they haven't had the same experience you have. Now my Dominican cousins and friends born in the U.S., they are paranoid and sensitive about their race or color and every offend them.

 

[POPNYChic]

I would understand if I had said "my life sucks and i owe it all to light skinned people" LMAO but no. My lifes fine and I owe it to myself. I did it.

That doesnt change the world we live in though and our ability and right to talk about it and how we traverse through it.

With all the introspection we see on DR1 from expats who are trying to understand Dominican culture and reconcile it with their own you would think you would be more used to this kind of debate. Its the same thing, just the other way around.

This is just a matter of the Dominican view on color and race VS the American one. Not much more than that. Obviously they differ greatly. Is that so terrible to discuss when its a factor in your life that you havent chosen?

 

[POPNYChic]

You have to ask yourselves what are you doing wrong that other/some Latin Americans had looked down on you, maybe you get offended to easily?

I have Dominican friends and family in different state and I wonder why they haven't had the same experience you have. Now my Dominican cousins and friends born in the U.S., they are paranoid and sensitive about their race or color and every offend them.

Other than being a spanish-speaking dark person? Nothing. You are describing the experiences of Dominicans in LA and/or Dominican enclaves VS those of Dominicans who have been more americanized. Of course views will differ. They are two different worlds. Thats what the topic is about. Life is not just what you see. Other people see other things. How is that so hard to grasp?

Again, why are there so many books on the subject? Why is it a legit college major? Just because you dont see it doesnt mean its not there for others. Its insane to have to even explain that.

 

[ifattygirl]

Without reading the 11 pages of replies you have gotten I know exactly how you feel.

From my mother's side I am Jewish & native indian -however u call the indigenous ppl of the island- and from my dad's side I am african and mulato -which is just a mix of african & whatever the spaniards could get it on with. However, i am not light enough to be "latina" in the latin world or dark enoug "to be "black" in the US.

It ****es me off that for over 20 years I have had to explain and spoonfeed people in the US the fact that Latin Americans come in all different shapes, sizes and colors, even in the same family, from the same mother and father. We are an interesting group of people with many different backgrounds and cultures and people outside of our world and environment should open their eyes and minds and realize this.

 

[jrhartley]

hmmm

people outside of our world and environment should open their eyes and minds and realize this.

a bit more stereotyping...that will help

 

[bienamor]

Other than being a Spanish-speaking dark person? Nothing. You are describing the experiences of Dominicans in LA and/or Dominican enclaves VS those of Dominicans who have been more americanized. Of course views will differ. They are two different worlds. Thats what the topic is about. Life is not just what you see. Other people see other things. How is that so hard to grasp?

Again, why are there so many books on the subject? Why is it a legit college major? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there for others. Its insane to have to even explain that.

"Why is it a legit college major", what is a legit college major? I mean so is basket weaving, and equestrian ship. But they don't do a lot for your saleability.

 

[bienamor]

HM

a bit more stereotyping...that will help

And who's world did she (I am assuming) move into?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0

I do wonder what the Dominicans would say or do if there was a big push to start providing legal or tax forms in either French or Krey?l. You know in order to accommodate the other million or so of the population in the DR. Illegal(undocumented) or otherwise.

 

[mountainannie]

about racism,,,,

golo, your rundown of dominican colorism is dead on, sadly. my question to you is: do you agree with said mentality and system? it sounds like you do. and thats disturbing. thats really a terrible way to judge people. you accept people by birthright not by character or merit.

I guess i do not have to say just how damaging it can be to ones self-esteem to know that no matter what you do, you will always be seen as inferior because you were born the wrong color and with the wrong features and/or hair type. because you werent born to european descended money.

That is what I have struggled with the most, now that I understand my own culture is against me in a sense.... and i no longer feel it to be "common sense" to view myself as inferior because i am not a rich, white person.

there are many aspects of our culture i love but that isnt one of them. that i prefer to discard forever.

as a girl, everyone around me always saw the rich gringos with the darker girls and said "why do they always pick the ugliest, blackest ones? we have so many light, pretty ones." as a child i would agree.

now i see that many foreigners are just a little more open-minded about color than we are in a sense (fetishes aside). they are sometimes more likely to look at a beautiful black woman and appreciate her value as much as they would a beautiful white one, than any dominican. that is the paradox to dominicanness: color is nothing and everything at the same time.

Because I refuse to comply with a mindset that crushes me, I had to step away from that. And accept myself....now all's well. I couldn't have ever done that if I hadn't left the DR, though. I would've believed it and accepted it.


I probably shouldnt have fed into golo's race baiting but...thats the truth.

i dont want this to be a "race" thread in that sense, though. i wont discuss that aspect any further than this.

ok.. now you call this "not racism" because over the last twenty years the subtlties have undergone a sophisticated name change into "colorism" but back in the old days.. we would have just referred to this preference for the lighter skins as a FORM of racism.... So I would say that indeed, you are discussing racism... the idea that people from one racial group are inherently superior BY VIRTUE of birth .. to another.

And I do appreciate your saying that you have not taken a victim stance but some might think that even bringing up the subject is just that.. I do not.. I think it is a subject that NEEDs bringing up because it helps us see our unconscious stuff that can be damaging to others..stuff that we learned from the cradle and we just pass on without meaning anything because we just do not even think about it.

So I applaud the conversation.. But I do want to correct the idea that it is not about racism.. just shades of it..

and thanks for the information about the African tribes..

I was also struck by the Bosnian Serbian war where people had to actually ASK people for their names to find out if they were from a Muslim subgroup since most of the people were not really even practicing Muslims and LOOKED the same as others...

It is really amazing the lengths that we humans will go to to hate one another!!

 

[pedrochemical]

.

I was also struck by the Bosnian Serbian war where people had to actually ASK people for their names to find out if they were from a Muslim subgroup since most of the people were not really even practicing Muslims and LOOKED the same as others...

It is really amazing the lengths that we humans will go to to hate one another!!

Indeed,
there was a time when the racist idiots in the UK were having a hard time identifying who it was they were supposed to hate.
With Jamaicans or Pakistanis, you can generally tell by looking at them. With Eastern Europeans you mainly cannot.

This just illustrates the nonsense involved in this racial hatred silliness.


Another point is that multi-racial does not mean multi - cultural.
That is the one that the racists are really scared of. That is the issue that seems to be turning normally right minded folk into petty racists these days.

 

[RGVgal]

And who's world did she (I am assuming) move into?

YouTube - Press One For English

I do wonder what the Dominicans would say or do if there was a big push to start providing legal or tax forms in either French or Krey?l. You know in order to accommodate the other million or so of the population in the DR. Illegal(undocumented) or otherwise.

And what does this have to do with the topic? We are talking about our experiences as Dominicans living in the U.S., are you a Dominican living in the U.S? If not, then you would not know what it is like be a Dominican living in the U.S, just like I wouldn't know what it's like to be expat living in the Dominican Republic.

Just because I or other Dominicans don't have the same experiences when it comes to race/color as the OP doesn't mean that her experiences/feelings on the subject aren't real.

 

[POPNYChic]

"Why is it a legit college major", what is a legit college major? I mean so is basket weaving, and equestrian ship. But they don't do a lot for your saleability.

lol by the same account, if i came in here and said "so whats up with basketweaving" and the responses i got were "wtf cares about basketweaving? wtf does that? is there something wrong with you that you care so much about it?"

my reply would be the same: is it not a recognized field of study? do people all over not do it? just because you dont or dont care doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

hows that?



MAnnie, I guess this is just kind of veering a direction I didnt intend it to. I agree w. your statements but I also know none of this goes over well. Pretty soon I will have to post a big, goofy "This will not end well" gif, if we continue on this route, and I am kinda lazy lol

 

[bienamor]

And what does this have to do with the topic? We are talking about our experiences as Dominicans living in the U.S., are you a Dominican living in the U.S? If not, then you would not know what it is like be a Dominican living in the U.S, just like I wouldn't know what it's like to be expat living in the Dominican Republic.

Just because I or other Dominicans don't have the same experiences when it comes to race/color as the OP doesn't mean that her experiences/feelings on the subject aren't real.

Nice two step. No I have no idea what its like to be a Dominican living in the US, but is it different for one living in say NYC vs Houston, Denver or Seattle? I know for instance that with the Cubans there is a large attitude difference between the ones in Miami and the ones in NYC. Is this also true for Dominicans? Because the ones I know that lived in Miami do have a different view of living in the US vs the ones I know that lived in NYC.

And am still wondering about the Krey?l question???

Was asked today by a retired Dominican from NYC what my nationality was, I said American, then I was asked if I was from the Bronx, or Manhattan?????? She had lived in the USA for 38 years, but I guess there is nothing else in the US except for NYC??

 

[dv8]

With Jamaicans or Pakistanis, you can generally tell by looking at them. With Eastern Europeans you mainly cannot.

grey clothes, gold teeth and a smell of kielbasa*

seriously, it it is easy to recognize eastern europeans - we always perform crappy jobs natives do not want to do. we clean your houses, wait at your tables, care for your kids and build your houses. we do the plumbing, we make sandwiches and we empty the trash. :tired:

* as a polak i can crack nasty jokes about fellow eastern europeans

 

[Alyonka]

seriously, it it is easy to recognize eastern europeans - we always perform crappy jobs natives do not want to do. we clean your houses, wait at your tables, care for your kids and build your houses. we do the plumbing, we make sandwiches and we empty the trash. :tired:

Don't forget putting hundreds of dishes through a HOT dishwasher in a small room heated up 100 degrees three times a day all summer long. This was the funniest job I have ever done. I even lost a few pounds.

 

[dv8]

heck, i forgot about zmywak!
funniest job i had was cleaning in a school. i did not last there long because instead of cleaning the board i used red marker to correct spelling mistakes of english teacher.

 

[bob saunders]

grey clothes, gold teeth and a smell of kielbasa*

seriously, it it is easy to recognize eastern europeans - we always perform crappy jobs natives do not want to do. we clean your houses, wait at your tables, care for your kids and build your houses. we do the plumbing, we make sandwiches and we empty the trash. :tired:

* as a polak i can crack nasty jokes about fellow eastern europeans

Don't forget the ever present cigarette hanging out the mouth.

 

[pedrochemical]

grey clothes, gold teeth and a smell of kielbasa*

seriously, it it is easy to recognize eastern europeans - we always perform crappy jobs natives do not want to do. we clean your houses, wait at your tables, care for your kids and build your houses. we do the plumbing, we make sandwiches and we empty the trash. :tired:

* as a polak i can crack nasty jokes about fellow eastern europeans

Wow, things must have changed.
In my day all the Polish folk I met in the U.K. were drafted in as graduate research students.
This may sound racist, but eastern Europeans were always the smart, educated ones.
Oh - and some ex-graduate research student lap-dancers.

I guess I am out of touch with it all now.