You are like an ex smoker....some ex smokers hate current smokers....other ex smokers were there and understand. You are part of that first group, I'm part of that second group. C'est la vie.
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Everything in Sosua Completely Dead?????????
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You are like an ex smoker....some ex smokers hate current smokers....other ex smokers were there and understand. You are part of that first group, I'm part of that second group. C'est la vie.
Not at all.
I really don't care; look closely as I have only offered perspectives gleaned from DOMINICANS I deal with. These are not MY opinions.
People are free to live and do as they please, as long as they don't affect another person's life, person or property. That includes you and other mongers. That includes how Dominicans want their country run, and what image they want to portray to the world.
I don't go to Sosua so I have NO dog in the hunt. The ONLY aspect of sex tourism that directly affects me is the attitude of European and Canuckian travel agents who won't consider sending me customers because of the DR's reputation as a sex tourism destination. That's it. So I get customers from elsewhere. No big deal, not ALL travel agents feel that way.
I have met recently with numerous mucky-mucks in gubmint and tourism and media and law and industry in the DR the past 18 months, and it is they who freely express their opinions without being prompted by me, all in the course of forwarding a project I'm working on (not motorcycle tours). I have offered THEIR opinions, not mine. I warned in another thread what I learned, and lo-and-behold it is coming to pass.
But I like to do numbers. I thought that when you mentioned the 95% you had some numbers that were meaningful. Perhaps I misunderstood.
But now you're changing the subject making it about me. No prob, "subject change" surrender noted.
If you were just pulling some numbers out of your nether regions, again, no problem: we'll just drop the subject entirely and we won't play the number's game.
Fair enough?
C'est la Vie was a bar across from CODETEL and Bailey's~they used to pad my bill... Haven't heard if they're still around.
Maybe get a "girlfriend" or "wife" who is 20+ younger than me and live happy, while in denial, that money played no part in her decisions.
Its interesting to see the mongers starting to panic as they see that their lifestyle may become more difficult. So they throw out nonsense statements that expats want to see all Dominican gone, the economy depends on mongering, the women will have no husbands, etc. Maybe they will be forced to go back home countries and again be ignored by all the women living in there, which is probably the reason they are mongering down here. C'est la vie.
the lifestyles of mongers will not get more difficult. it is just a moment of adjustment. the poon will just move elsewhere. they did the same thing in POP when they razed Long Beach, and anyone there will tell you that the economy of that town took a crushing blow from that decision. the girls just moved on down to Sosua. when Sosua blows up, they will take the show on the road. the economy of the DR cannot function without prostitution. this symbolic cleansing is just for show.
Very true. On the south coast where we live, our beach used to be a sleepy little place with families on the weekend. The next beach west was like Sosua, on a smaller scale. We never went there. About 10 years ago they laid down the law and sent all the putas packing, it's now a really nice beach. Unfortunately, they moved to our town. It's rare that we go to our own corner beach. Some day they'll send them somewhere else.
Spoken like a True Believer in the "monger lifestyle." "Poon." "Punani."
"It's (we are) so important..."
So why doesn't the gubmint economic mucky-mucks recognize that, gorgon? Why are THEY trying to "clean up" Sosua? Why not build a "war zone" specifically to attract even MORE mongers if it's so important economically?
Certainly as long as there are mongers prostitution will exist. Simple demand/supply. And as long as prostitution exists, businesses supporting mongers will exist. The real question is "where?" Maybe some war zone away from areas designated by the MoT as potential tourism development locations? Like Blackbeards?
For every monger who come to Sosua to buy "punani/poon" and make it rain RD$100 notes swilling Hennessey in strip clubs on their Pimp Daddy Fantasy vaycay, how many families stay away for exactly that reason? Which has more potential to revive the area?
A casual look at Trip Advisor or other travel review sites shows a large number who will not return because of the level of prostitution...and their experiences trickle back up to the travel agents I court who, once again, refuse to refer clients to the North Coast & Boca Chica BECAUSE of it. Maybe you should go to one of the AI's marketing departments and ask THEM what the travel agents say.
The MoT says "nightlife" (including mongering) is around .7% of tourists. We know the number of tourists, we know the average expenditure of tourists, we know airport arrivals. I'd not too difficult to use those numbers and approximate the economic impact even in Sosua.
Heck, I overstated my economic estimate by a factor of 5 compared to the MoT.
My point is NOT an indictment of mongering. My POINT is that DOMINICANS in high places see it as a significant economic and social problem and seem to be making firm moves, announced in public, to do something about it.
One can live in denial, or one can see the shoe before it drops.
I wonder if the IMF, being politically correct, has some say in the issue...
Contrary to your post, the majority of mongers in Sosua are tourists from a few different countries down here to enjoy company with as many women as they care to indulge in. ALL will go back to their home countries after a few days to a week here. Expats that live here have many other options for indulging with the local P4P women here and have no need for Sosua. The only mongers that are freaking out are the sex tourists wondering if they should fly to the DR or another location. Oh. I forgot about the many hotels that cater to the sex tourists.. They are the ones that are really freaking out..
first of all, i have never set myself up as a member of the monger lifestyle. that is a fabrication typical of you, to make yourself feel important by putting others down. secondly, i am not a hypocrite. you youself used to patronize prostitutes, but since you purportedly have stopped, those who do are targets of your calumny. i will not debate this issue with you, because rather than getting into yet one more round of personal attacks with you, i want to see numbers, something you cannot produce. "nightlife", the actual spend on prostitute services, is an unknown, because it is a part of the informal economy, and, as such, cannot accurately be calculated from GDP. secondly, mongering does not simply include the actual fees of the prostitute. it includes villa and hotel rentals, food and beverage, transportation, and shopping, just like the non mongers do. as i said before, and i maintain forever, absent an exit survey about who availed themselves of the services of a prostitute, and who did not, these figures reduced to decimal points are worth absolutely nothing.
So what is your point? Are you saying that since the gov't doesn't have good data on the monger economy, therefore they should leave it as is and not make changes? If the gov't is being told by travel agents that that travel agents are not recommending the area, thereby hurting tourism, that's good enough for me. I would guess that the global vacationer economy is larger than the global mongerer economy and so that's what they need to tap into.
Yep. Majority of the p4p customers are Dominicans themselves on the down low. Say it isn't so?
This represents the desire on the part of government to eliminate a substantial flow of pesos which they haven't yet figured out a way to control/ tax as in other countries in the region. The Dutch don't seem to have a problem with this as they have established special licenses for the bars, special visas for the workers and regular mandatory inspections to ensure environmental health, workplace safety and tax compliance.
Why can't the Dominican government pull this off? According to the Church Ladies around here they're soooo embarrassed about the open air Punani circus that so-sewer has become. Those poor, pious government officials who are up to their butt cracks in mistresses, condo's, SUV's and foreign bank accounts overflowing with payola will never legitimize and clean up their sex industry because there are too many People making their living off it, all the way to the top.
The People trying to tell you how upper crusty and intolerant of foreigners who don't fit the Disney model that these Dominican high mucky-mucks won't tell you about the "guides" who are sent to the hotel rooms of official guests by them or what the percentage off the top must be included in business plans and public works projects to maintain "friendly relations" with those wonderful examples of humanity. Old high and mighty reformed monger turned expat's also don't like to talk about the fact that those Dominican officials whose rings they're so proud to kiss prefer their playmates young. Some of those Guys would make Caligula blush.
Prostitution isn't what's screwing up the North Coast tourism industry. Look at the East and Northeast Coast models. Business is booming and there's no shortage of available P4P there either. Business is booming because it's encapsulated in the AI model, in other words the less contact that most of these tourists have with Dominican business practices and especially with Dominican officials, the more likely they are not just to return but to encourage others to return with them. How do you think Casa de Campo got to be so popular with upper middle class 1st worlders? Many have been going there for years and not paid off a single thirsty cop or been approached by a single beggar and when it's "Daddy Night" they get exactly what they pay for.
I really do hope that this cruise port business takes off and the D.R. becomes a regular stop on many Caribbean/ Atlantic cruises but unless they also encapsulate their environment in the same way that the successful AI's have the whole thing will end up a huge waste of time and money. 1st time that ever happened in the Dominican Republic, right?
On the 'down low'??? Doesn't that mean a guy who everyone thinks is straight is actually looking for gay guys?
Or is my generation gap showing?
The D.R. has overtaken Brazil, Colombia and all the Eastern European countries as the world's most prolific source for...um...fake waitresses on temporary work visas.
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