Firearms, 10mm

May 5, 2007
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Thanks Pichardo

From what I gather of your post: Should I wish to "license" the 10 mm, I would need to ask the same person who licensed my 454 to do so or I would risk losing it?

If I wish to pursue obtaining a "normal" permit I should look to a 9mm or lesser weapon?

Is there a prohibition of .375 Magnums? The caliber fits but it seems the Magnum was mentioned as being prohibited

Are 9 mm Para +P+ rounds allowed?

Thanks again Pichardo, sorry about you losing the Thompson, hope it wasn't a 1921 with Circular mag, lot of money there) I'm sure it is gracing someone's gun case today

Sean


I have been following the OP and the answers for some time now, and I must say that I'm impressed with the amount of information that seems to contradict one another posted here.

First of all, I'm a Dominican citizen by birth. I have a concealed M1911A1 "M15" .45 pistol. I got the gun from my earlier this year deceased father, who had it for quite a long time since the early 80's. The conceal permit only allows one (1) single weapon to be designated as the concealed gun to be carried, even if you have several weapons as I do.

Possession of a caliber higher than 9mm is not illegal or banned by private citizens, yet this only applies in certain circumstances ONLY. One of those is when the weapon was already licensed to another person in the first place (most of the time to a military/police/official background) or, and, if the licensed is vetted by certain high ranking officers within the active service. Once the officer that vetted such gun caliber to be licensed to a civilian departs the ranks or is put into retirement, the licensed is revoked on the next expiration/renewal date.

A good 99% of gun permits for civilians in the DR are bracketed to ownership of calibers not greater than 9mm. If you have a weapon of higher caliber with a permit of tenencia or porte, odds are YOU fall within the above described exceptions to the rules.

I have a military background, both personal and family. However with this being said, rules are going to change in the coming years for ownership for weapons like mine and under my circumstances. No longer would I be able to sell or gift my out of rules gun, to any person including family members (my son).

To the OP original question about the legality of his gun and permit:
Yes your gun is legal in your hands only, for as long that permit is active only. The reason your general buddy asked you to let him know when the permit is due for renewal, is simply because he must personally undergo the vetting process under his active authority.

If you try to go and seek a civilian permit (as in not from your buddy) from interior y policia, the gun will be confiscated and your permit revoked on the spot.

My father (who died earlier this year) had a Tommy gun in his safe, with a special permit to own the gun. I (being well versed and positioned within the military of the DR) tried to transfer the gun's ownership to my possession, only to have to surrender the weapon in person to a higher ranking officer from the military. Not even the Police is cleared enough to handle such type of weapons.

The gun was a gift, from long gone Gen. Neit Nivar Seijas' extended military gun collection. Other weapons I was able to transfer possession of, but the Tommy.

It might sound odd that I'm licensed to carry a concealed official issue .45 semi auto gun, yet denied to own a piece of gun history like a .45 caliber Tommy Gun...

That should give you an idea of how informal the gun licensing process can be in the DR.

Enjoy your handgun and aid from your buddy for as long as it may last for you. Don't ask too many questions, because you're creating something of a problem for your well meaning buddy here.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Thanks Pichardo

From what I gather of your post: Should I wish to "license" the 10 mm, I would need to ask the same person who licensed my 454 to do so or I would risk losing it?

Yes, your best bet is to use your buddy to acquire the license for the 10mm rather than going after the permit out of the loop. Like I said, anything higher than 9mm is "out" of the norm and are to be considered "exceptions" to the rules. Once you try and are denied for any unknown reason the gun is confiscated, never to see your hands again.

If I wish to pursue obtaining a "normal" permit I should look to a 9mm or lesser weapon?

The wisest choice to be made, given how frugal military and official positions last in the DR. That will put you in 100% compliance along the rest of the 99% permit holders. If anything should happen (God forbid) and you make use of your weapon, the simpler and less exceptional your permit and gun, the better for you.


Is there a prohibition of .375 Magnums? The caliber fits but it seems the Magnum was mentioned as being prohibited

Anything above 9mm is out of bounds under the normal conditions like I said, only under the exceptions will a .357 meet the requirements for a permit.



Are 9 mm Para +P+ rounds allowed?


There's been much confusion about ammunition legality here before, the one rule you must meet (and only one) is that ANY ammunition you purchase for your licensed gun must be from a licensed retailer. Armories and poligonos are under strict rules to carry and sell approved ammunition to civilians with permits. If you find the bullets out of those channels for sale, treat them as illegal ammunition 100%. Anything purchasable from an armory or poligono is legit both for practice and self defense under the law.


Thanks again Pichardo, sorry about you losing the Thompson, hope it wasn't a 1921 with Circular mag, lot of money there) I'm sure it is gracing someone's gun case today

Sean

Two circular and one long piece... The gun was more of a memento than anything else. I even offered to permanently disable the gun, but no cigar.
I guess my father's military rank was needed to hold one of these, even when retired. At least I kept all other guns with me.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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If 10mm ammo is $40 a box in the US, I expect it would be over $100 a box here, if it is available at all. I just checked the price of a box of 50 rounds of 9mm ammo and it is 2,000 $RD, about $56 US, in Puerto Plata.

After reading Pichardo's post, I see there are limited exceptions to the rule of a 9mm size limit. Because of Pichardo's following statement about not being able to get a civilian permit, It does make me wonder what would happen if you ever got into a situation where you used a firearm for self defense with that "special license" from the General:

"If you try to go and seek a civilian permit (as in not from your buddy) from interior y policia, the gun will be confiscated and your permit revoked on the spot."

That sentence does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

It all boils down to how long is that buddy active within the ranks, once he's gone or retired, so too must the permit and gun find a new buddy to re-enlist it...

For all intents and purposes, having a non-exceptional gun/permit is preferable than carrying a legit bazooka around.
 
Since it is illegal to import your own guns and ammo into the DR, what is the current cost to shoot 200 rounds of 10mm (or even 9mm ammo) in the DR?

Is 10mm ammo readily available here?

You are allowed to bring ammo in checked luggage no problem,up to 11 pounds as long as it is in original boxes in checked luggage. I bring 3 or 4 boxes every trip no problems.
 
May 5, 2007
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Sounds like I will leave the 454 in the house and obtain a "legal" 9 mm and bring my own +P+ rounds, less worries and hassles for anytime I wish to carry it on my person

Anyone have costs in the DR for Glock 26, 19 or 19C?

All your help is much appreciated everyone

It all boils down to how long is that buddy active within the ranks, once he's gone or retired, so too must the permit and gun find a new buddy to re-enlist it...

For all intents and purposes, having a non-exceptional gun/permit is preferable than carrying a legit bazooka around.
 

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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many instances of well placed 9 mm have failed to "stop" a perpetrator immediately, hardly an issue with the 10 mm and especially the .454

That is the situation all law enforcement agencies are wrangling with and many decided that LEOs needed to carry a caliber that have more stopping power. The agencies that carry 9mm will always load +p or +p+ with hollows like Winchester Ranger "SXT" or civilian ammo like Hydra-Shok or Double Tap.

If you have the training and practice, any caliber you choose will suffice. The problem is that many shooters(can I say most?) don't have that level of training, so if they start rapid firing a high caliber gun, rounds will start flying and ending up everywhere, usually hitting innocent bystanders:ermm:

Jeff Cooper was in a class of his own and pretty much the best in his business. I do my training at Blackwater(Xe) with my Glock 31(.357sig).

I believe parts of this thread should be included in the FAQ section for DR1 and perhaps the posters with experience in the DRs gun laws (Pichardo and others) could create something that future seekers could be directed to.

Also, I never knew you were allowed to bring ammo into the DR. This turned into a very informative thread, cheers.
 
May 5, 2007
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Pichardo

More confusion for me: You state that anything LARGER than a 9mm is prohibited, yet say the .357 is included in the prohibited, or did I misunderstand your post?

The .357 is exactly the same as a .38, both of which are technically larger in diameter than 9 mm

When saying "larger," bullet diameter is not always the determining factor.

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PICHARDO

"Anything above 9mm is out of bounds under the normal conditions like I said, only under the exceptions will a .357 meet the requirements for a permit."
 

SantiagoDR

The "REAL" SantiagoDR
Jan 12, 2006
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You are allowed to bring ammo in checked luggage no problem,up to 11 pounds as long as it is in original boxes in checked luggage. I bring 3 or 4 boxes every trip no problems.
From the TSA site:

Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in. Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply. Read our Firearms & Ammunition section.

Also, please note that many other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check with the authorities at your destination about their requirements.

...... There's been much confusion about ammunition legality here before, the one rule you must meet (and only one) is that ANY ammunition you purchase for your licensed gun must be from a licensed retailer. Armories and poligonos are under strict rules to carry and sell approved ammunition to civilians with permits. If you find the bullets out of those channels for sale, treat them as illegal ammunition 100%. Anything purchasable from an armory or poligono is legit both for practice and self defense under the law.

Just because the Airline allows it, does not mean the country you are traveling to allows you to bring it in.

Has Customs ever seen the ammunition that you bring in badpiece33?

SantiagoDR
 

zoomzx11

Gold
Jan 21, 2006
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shooting range in Santiago??

Would love to go and shoot at a range. Where is "Heptagono" in Santiago??
I am tired of shooting at cans with my Korean 9mm. With its fixed sights I have not yet figured out where its shooting. And worse yet the wife who has hardly ever fired a gun but has amazing good luck frequently hits the cans while I with careful aiming and proper technique but no luck cannot hit a thing. Appreciate any directions. It is my clear understanding that you may not import any ammunition into the DR. I believe that the government is trying to limit the availability of ammo thinking that it may reduce crime. It has had the effect of making ammo very expensive. So far I have not seen much crime reduction in my neighborhood. Very interesting topic. Always love to talk guns.
 

beeza

Silver
Nov 2, 2006
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Would love to go and shoot at a range. Where is "Heptagono" in Santiago??
I am tired of shooting at cans with my Korean 9mm. With its fixed sights I have not yet figured out where its shooting. And worse yet the wife who has hardly ever fired a gun but has amazing good luck frequently hits the cans while I with careful aiming and proper technique but no luck cannot hit a thing. Appreciate any directions. It is my clear understanding that you may not import any ammunition into the DR. I believe that the government is trying to limit the availability of ammo thinking that it may reduce crime. It has had the effect of making ammo very expensive. So far I have not seen much crime reduction in my neighborhood. Very interesting topic. Always love to talk guns.

it's near here Google Maps

On the left side of the road going towards Licey. There is a motorbike store on a corner. Turn left past the motorbike store and go down that road for about 50 yards and you'll see it.
 
From the TSA site:

Ammunition - Check with your airline or travel agent to see if ammunition is permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. If ammunition is permitted, it must be declared to the airline at check-in. Small arms ammunitions for personal use must be securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Ask about limitations or fees, if any, that apply. Read our Firearms & Ammunition section.

Also, please note that many other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check with the authorities at your destination about their requirements.



Just because the Airline allows it, does not mean the country you are traveling to allows you to bring it in.

Has Customs ever seen the ammunition that you bring in badpiece33?

SantiagoDR

No customs has never given me a problem.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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It seems to be I wasn't clear enough earlier:

NO AMMUNITION is LEGAL unless is bought at a DOMINICAN REPUBLIC's armory or poligono!!!!!!!

NO gun which "CALIBER" is greater than **9mm** is to be considered a "NORMAL" licensed gun. Anything of higher caliber is an "EXCEPTION" to the rules.

The fact that you have X gun of X caliber which goes out of the above described rules, means your gun and permit are BOTH included in the "EXCEPTIONS".

Bringing AMMUNITION in your luggage when coming from abroad is NOT just like bringing a pair of tennis shoes...

Just because you have the "luck" to bring it several times with you, doesn't mean anything than most likely a "MISPLACED" courtesy of the pertaining official at customs.

Just like happens when you drive your car, with a naked plain of view bottle of brugal in the front seat. Or the untold kind of things common in our country. The fact that you get away with it, means "0" if something goes the other way.

Ammunition is not coffee or an iPod!!!!! DO NOT BRING IT WITH YOU UNLESS WITH A PERMIT FROM THE DOMINICAN CONSULATE ABROAD TO DO SO.

On regards to +p, +p+, P++, etc... Ammunition not purchased or sold at one of the TWO above referred to sites is to be considered "ILEGAL" both to possess and make use of.

I plan to separate from my military active "status" and therefore will make use of my 9mm Beretta instead of my now licensed .45 as my carry weapon of option.

I can't stress any more that in our country, even when it seems to be ok to do things out of the loop and within the exceptions; it's in your best self serving interest to abide by the standard rather than be counted within the exceptions.

Even adding something as simple a rather innocent, like a compensator to your gun, can and will become a pain in the neck should you ever be involved in a lethally armed confrontation.

Badpiece is not lying or otherwise wrong from his personal experience and the issue, but like I said, exceptions are not to be treated or considered as the norm attached to the standard in the DR.

Bringing ammo with you in your luggage is NOT illegal, but permissible under a strict guideline of caliber and quantity, apart from end user. Under the guidelines one should obtain a written permit of sorts from the abroad Dominican consulate, in order to bring the ammo safely and legally. Odds are that almost 90% of our consulates operate with remarkable deficiencies when it comes to dealing in conformity with regulations.

Many will simply tell you that it's rather OK to just pack them into you checked luggage, always that the amount and caliber is met. But the guidelines tell other wise!

There's a ban on ammo import in large quantities, as in commercial terms. The ban doesn't extend to personal importing of a very limited quantity for licensed holders.

In theory, the person bringing the ammo should contact the abroad consulate nearest to him. There his gun license should be made available, stating the caliber of ammo for the gun. The consulate then should proceed to issue a permit of personal use import, for the amount of ammo allowed under such guideline.

What happens in practical use is not what's described in the guidelines.

Seldom anything in the DR meet guidelines, doesn't it?
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Before the questions start raining:

The guidelines for private import of ammo by permit holders into the DR are veeeeeeeery restrictive and exclusionary.

Just having a permit will not mean that you can bring ammo with you into the country.
So far I only know about military and officials having done so. I'd never done it since I can get mine from military channels in the country all the time.

As far as I know, the ban is applied on an individual case by case manner.

Badpiece you're a rather lucky or well connected individual in the country...
 
Badpiece you're a rather lucky or well connected individual in the country...

I alays thought it was legal to bring the ammo in my checked luggage and have never given it a 2nd thought, I would advise everyone heed Pichardo's advise on this, He seems more knowledgeable on this topic than all of us put together. Thank God I have met a few influential people in my trips to DR! :)
 

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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With its fixed sights I have not yet figured out where its shooting. And worse yet the wife who has hardly ever fired a gun but has amazing good luck frequently hits the cans while I with careful aiming and proper technique but no luck cannot hit a thing. Appreciate any directions. Always love to talk guns.

I took a look at this website http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter2.htm and it looks pretty good in regards to pistol marksmanship, also, click on the subjects on the right side of the page for additional training topics.

Also, check out NRA.org or NRAHQ.org site for tons of shooting information and especially their "pistol qualification" Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program You can do this on your own to better your marksmanship. The NRA is the foremost in everything relating to firearms, period. If you ever travel to their gun range located in the back of their headquarters in Fairfax, Virginia, you will be required to take and pass a 30/50 question exam on firearms before you are allowed to use their facility. Now, who in the heck does that?? They are serious when it comes down to gun training & safety! Also, order Basic Pistol DVD from either Gunsite, Blackwater and/or SigSauer, for practical real life situations, if you can't attend their schools. Also, "DRY FIRE" alot!!!! It will teach you trigger contol, breathing, and sight alignment, very very important my friend. It's all about the BASICS!

Good Luck
 
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357 Mag v 357 SIG

Ricardo

If you don't mind: I have read quite a bit about the SIG 357 but have zero personal knowledge

I have read of high marks from many shooters and plain damnation from others who shun any "bottleneck" pistol cartridge. I have heard of an abnormal amount of cases of casing plastering in the chamber and bullet compression or regression (lead being forced back into case upon chambering), that worries me in a weapon used for anything but target

Ballistics I have read show the 357 SIG and "regular" 357 Mag to be comparable

My next question" The 357 SIG is NOT considered a Magnum and is within the 9mm maximum (I don't think the case diameter is taken into consideration) so is the SIG 357 legal as a pistol for "Everyman" in the DR (God forbid the cost if it is)

I do my training at Blackwater(Xe) with my Glock 31(.357sig).

I believe parts of this thread should be included in the FAQ section for DR1 and perhaps the posters with experience in the DRs gun laws (Pichardo and others) could create something that future seekers could be directed to.

Also, I never knew you were allowed to bring ammo into the DR. This turned into a very informative thread, cheers.
 

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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Ricardo

If you don't mind: I have read quite a bit about the SIG 357 but have zero personal knowledge

I have read of high marks from many shooters and plain damnation from others who shun any "bottleneck" pistol cartridge. I have heard of an abnormal amount of cases of casing plastering in the chamber and bullet compression or regression (lead being forced back into case upon chambering), that worries me in a weapon used for anything but target

Ballistics I have read show the 357 SIG and "regular" 357 Mag to be comparable

My next question" The 357 SIG is NOT considered a Magnum and is within the 9mm maximum (I don't think the case diameter is taken into consideration) so is the SIG 357 legal as a pistol for "Everyman" in the DR (God forbid the cost if it is)

I haven't had that problem yet (hopefully never) and my Glock has close to 5,000 rounds in it and I've ran that gun "hot & dry" for 1500+ without a single malfunction in a three day session. Can't say that for my Sig or Kimber, which I have to run "wet & cool" and will sometime get a "stovepipe" here & there.

IMHO, a 125grain(hollow or ball) .357sig(1450fps) is a very very hot round in comparison to a 125gr. 9mm only traveling at about 1150fps. Plus the .357sig is loaded at a higher pressure than the .40S&W with increase velocity. So, if you want to penetrate a car door then go for the .357sig, it will actually penetrate bullet resistant vests up to a Level IIIA vest(which is one of the higher levels for handgun ammunition(1400+fps) I don't know if the caliber is more of a "Man Stopper" than the .45, it's an ongoing debate amongst the .357 vs. .40 vs. .45 vs. 9mm internet forums. I have read that the supersonic round could induce a "shock" in the individual causing a knockdown due to the higher amount of energy (in comparison to the 9mm) pushing thru the body.

Many experts refer the .357sig as a 9mm "Magnum", just like the 10mm is .40caliber on crack. I personally carry Double-Tap 125gr. Bonded Defense JHP (1450fps/4"bbl)

I can't answer the legal questions for the .357sig in the DR, but hey, you can always purchase a conversion kit and swap out the barrel, mag & springs and say "It wasn't me",hahaha.
 
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There are so many theories and tests that show the relative "Stopping power" of different cartridges,we could post and debate that subject for decades

The most credible (At least that I have read and is accepted by many police, military and sport shooters) is simply the larger the bullet diameter the more "Stopping power"

The Hatcher scale is a common and accepted one, it gives the .357 SIG 45.2 using a JHP and the 9 mm 39.9 using same, but jumps to 76.5 for a lowly 44 special using a wadcutter, the big flat piece of lead doing the damage. the 45 ACP in JHP scores a 60.7, again showing the damage done by a big hunk of lead.

A bullet must penetrate 6-8 inches to do a lot of damage, so a high velocity round has advantages

One of the great problems with all these "scores" is thankfully there have not been enough real world shooting to obtain data from, ballistic gelatin doesn't "shock."

The effects of actual bullet energy on knockdown has been proven many times to be a fallacy, remember basic physics and if a bullet had enough energy to physically knock someone down, it would break the shooters wrist upon firing (Equal and opposite actions)

"Shock" is derived from massive blood loss and a larger bullet often hits more arteries than a smaller on.

The theory of expanding entry woods from higher speed bullets has been disproved as most organs simply move or stretch

Either way, I guess I am going with a 9 mm, less hassle and less likelihood of future problems.

The SIG can be changed to a .40 by simple barrel change as the 357 and 40 use the same magazine and springs are also interchangeable (At least in Glock and SS) but then again I would have an "Illegal" weapon if inspected

Thanks for your time and help in making my decision


I haven't had that problem yet (hopefully never) and my Glock has close to 5,000 rounds in it and I've ran that gun "hot & dry" for 1500+ without a single malfunction in a three day session. Can't say that for my Sig or Kimber, which I have to run "wet & cool" and will sometime get a "stovepipe" here & there.

IMHO, a 125grain(hollow or ball) .357sig(1450fps) is a very very hot round in comparison to a 125gr. 9mm only traveling at about 1150fps. Plus the .357sig is loaded at a higher pressure than the .40S&W with increase velocity. So, if you want to penetrate a car door then go for the .357sig, it will actually penetrate bullet resistant vests up to a Level IIIA vest(which is one of the higher levels for handgun ammunition(1400+fps) I don't know if the caliber is more of a "Man Stopper" than the .45, it's an ongoing debate amongst the .357 vs. .40 vs. .45 vs. 9mm internet forums. I have read that the supersonic round could induce a "shock" in the individual causing a knockdown due to the higher amount of energy (in comparison to the 9mm) pushing thru the body.

Many experts refer the .357sig as a 9mm "Magnum", just like the 10mm is .40caliber on crack. I personally carry Double-Tap 125gr. Bonded Defense JHP (1450fps/4"bbl)

I can't answer the legal questions for the .357sig in the DR, but hey, you can always purchase a conversion kit and swap out the barrel, mag & springs and say "It wasn't me",hahaha.
 

djuno718

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Dec 1, 2007
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Don't know about 10mm but when I go to the range in Santiago, the Heptagono, I usually squeeze off 200 a visit. They refill their own cases so a box of 50 9mm costs 400 pesos. I must have fired at least 3000 by now and I can only remember having three stoppages. The rounds that I have at home are Magtech. And a box of 50 cost me about 2000 pesos. Although I haven't had the need to use them, (thankfully) and they are a couple of years old now so maybe the price has risen since.



Just Become a Socio Or (member) of the Poligono! Its a cheap monthly fee and shoot all you want!(although i dont know the price) and alot cheaper than paying 50Rds per box Seperately.