Haiti- What does the future hold?

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pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Chip said:
Thanks for the rabble rousing.

I dounbt any Christians in Haiti would promote violence, on the contrary, many I met were very peace loving and let people know.
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If it so that 80% of Haitians actively follow the christian cult, then with all the violence in Haiti up to 2006 it seems remarkable that none of them were violent.
I think we all have the potential if pushed.

I like to think, perhaps naively, that violence and criminality crosses all cultures and religious superstitions.

I personally know FRAHP and Ton-Ton Macoute ex-members. And I know them well!
They are all Devout Catholics - so as such I disagree with your thesis.
 
C

Chip

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pedrochemical said:
They are all Devout Catholics - so as such I disagree with your thesis.
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If I had a nickel for everytime I heard some "expert" on the Catholic faith express their complete ignorance on the topic I would have been a billionaire ages ago.

Funny too how most never have even stepped in a Catholic church.

Then too there are those who have a heavy gold chain with some image and who has an aunt with some "saints" in the house and the obligatory church attendance when a family member dies and all of a sudden these people are experts on the Catholic faith.
 
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woofsback

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religeons

since mankind first formed religeons

if you didn't belong to the right religeon...
you were coerced of forced even upon pain of death to switch

how many religeons are out there in this world?
seems to me someone has to be wrong somewhere
183 (just a guess) different religeons means for sure someone is in the wrong one :)

religeon has been the cause of more deaths than all the wars and natural disasters in the world

and it's not because of the flock or congregation or whatever you want to call the particular sect....
it's because the ZEALOTS have to have it THIER way and will do WHATEVER it takes to meet these aims...
almost sounds like government in some countries

i'm not a religeous person myself...but i do believe in religeous ETHICS...
thou shall not steal
love thy neighbour
respect others
ect....
 
L

Lambada

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Whoever thinks the media 'fabricated' the incident, it was confirmed by Pastor Frank Amedia, the Pastor quoted in the AP article. He obviously felt moved to respond to the article on his ministry website
RESPONSE TO THE ARTICLE BY PAISLEY DODDS, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Anyone interested in rebuilding in Haiti might have come across the Pastor since he appears to be a developer with several high end luxury buildings to his credit:
Amadi Companies
Click on company biographies, the one for the CEO.

And I agree, Berzin, any sort of indoctrination at any time, but particularly at a time like this utterly unnaceptable.
 
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pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Chip said:
If I had a nickel for everytime I heard some "expert" on the Catholic faith express their complete ignorance on the topic I would have been a billionaire ages ago.

Funny too how most never have even stepped in a Catholic church.

Then too there are those who have a heavy gold chain with some image and who has an aunt with some "saints" in the house and the obligatory church attendance when a family member dies and all of a sudden these people are experts on the Catholic faith.
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These particular leaders and members of these violent organisations are of the catholic cult.
Plane, straight forward and indisputable.

Your thesis is wrong.

I can supply names and addresses if you like - we can go and have beers with them.
 
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pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Chip said:
The expert on all things Catholic speaks.
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Chip, that is the response of a preteen schoolchild.
Is that what you call a principled response - ah now i get it!;)



Antonio Bionote of Fond de Blancs, Aquin - Ton-Ton Macoute operative, born and raised catholic, devout catholic and avid church goer.
Dordie Augustine of Fond de Blancs, Aquin - FRAPH agent, born and raised catholic, devout catholic and avid church goer.


2 real men, 2 violent men, 2 catholic men.

QED
 
R

RonS

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Oct 18, 2004
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AND, to chime in on the point Berzin has tried to make, does it serve any useful purpose in a discussion concerning what the future holds for Haiti to engage in a fight over Voodoo, Catholism, and other Christian religious practices, when the children of Haiti are in desparate need of medical attention, shelter, food, clean water, sanitation, basic education, etc., etc., etc.! What are you guys talking about?!
 
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pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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It is totally relevant!
The future of Haiti, according to many missionaries, depends on changing Haitians' religious beliefs to that of their own.
They see it as part and parcel of the transformation of the country.
Many believe that handing out aid gives them the right (and they use it as an excuse) to try and 'save' these people. How arrogant can one be?
As we have seen, they attempt to kidnap children because they say it is the will of god.

When somebody hands out food to some and not to others based on their own personal beliefs - and that is happening - then it becomes even more relevant. Especially in this time of crisis!

I wish it was not so - but it is.
I wish that people would do whatever they do out of humanity and not because they wish to further their particular cult.

It very much does matter why one does what one does as this affects they way they do it which in turns affects what they do.
 
R

RonS

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Oct 18, 2004
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pedrochemical said:
When somebody hands out food to some and not to others based on their own personal beliefs - and that is happening - then it becomes even more relevant. Especially in this time of crisis! ...
It very much does matter why one does what one does as this affects they way they do it which in turns affects what they do.
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This underscores that it is critical that the international community, the donor nations, and the UN, continue to empower the democratically elected Haitian government, and center relief and rebuilding efforts, so that those efforts are managed and controlled primarily outside these religious institutions, and where ever possible, by Haitians. It is well and good that religious institutions contribute and do right by our fellow men, women, and children in Haiti. However, if those contributions come conditioned upon adherence to some religious belief, the response, in my humble opinion, should be 'thanks, but, no thanks'. It seems to me that there is enough financial resources available that this outrageously discriminatory 'humanitarian' assistance can and should be avoided.
 
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pedrochemical

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RonS said:
This underscores that it is critical that the international community, the donor nations, and the UN, continue to empower the democratically elected Haitian government, and center relief and rebuilding efforts, so that those efforts are managed and controlled primarily outside these religious institutions, and where ever possible, by Haitians. It is well and good that religious institutions contribute and do right by our fellow men, women, and children in Haiti. However, if those contributions come conditioned upon adherence to some religious belief, the response, in my humble opinion, should be 'thanks, but, no thanks'. It seems to me that there is enough financial resources available that this outrageously discriminatory 'humanitarian' assistance can and should be avoided.
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Agreed - and very well put.
 
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mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Lambada said:
Whoever thinks the media 'fabricated' the incident, it was confirmed by Pastor Frank Amedia, the Pastor quoted in the AP article. He obviously felt moved to respond to the article on his ministry website
RESPONSE TO THE ARTICLE BY PAISLEY DODDS, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Anyone interested in rebuilding in Haiti might have come across the Pastor since he appears to be a developer with several high end luxury buildings to his credit:
Amadi Companies
Click on company biographies, the one for the CEO.

And I agree, Berzin, any sort of indoctrination at any time, but particularly at a time like this utterly unnaceptable.
Click to expand...

Who Are We

you got the wrong Frank Amadi,Lambada
 
L

las2137

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Sep 1, 2008
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RonS said:
This underscores that it is critical that the international community, the donor nations, and the UN, continue to empower the democratically elected Haitian government, and center relief and rebuilding efforts, so that those efforts are managed and controlled primarily outside these religious institutions, and where ever possible, by Haitians. It is well and good that religious institutions contribute and do right by our fellow men, women, and children in Haiti. However, if those contributions come conditioned upon adherence to some religious belief, the response, in my humble opinion, should be 'thanks, but, no thanks'. It seems to me that there is enough financial resources available that this outrageously discriminatory 'humanitarian' assistance can and should be avoided.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. It should also be said that, at least in the case of the US government, ANY organization receiving US tax dollars (through USAID, for example) CANNOT discriminate on the basis of religion, race, etc. This includes faith-based organizations (FBOs).

This is important to highlight- many faith-based organizations DO serve communities with out religious strings attached. Some because they are required to by law, others because it is the right thing to do.

In my experience working for both secular and faith-based organizations, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. The aid world is largely secular, yet the communities it serves are almost always organized around some sort of belief system.

I have worked in communities where the church got in the way and others where there would have been no way if it were not for the structure the church provided.

The trick is to leverage both so that all are served.

Interesting- I know one FBO that discriminates in hiring (you must be a "Christian" to work for them and get a pastor recommendation) but does not discriminate in their programs.
 
M

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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pedrochemical said:
It is totally relevant!
The future of Haiti, according to many missionaries, depends on changing Haitians' religious beliefs to that of their own.
They see it as part and parcel of the transformation of the country.
Many believe that handing out aid gives them the right (and they use it as an excuse) to try and 'save' these people. How arrogant can one be?
As we have seen, they attempt to kidnap children because they say it is the will of god.

When somebody hands out food to some and not to others based on their own personal beliefs - and that is happening - then it becomes even more relevant. Especially in this time of crisis!

I wish it was not so - but it is.
I wish that people would do whatever they do out of humanity and not because they wish to further their particular cult.

It very much does matter why one does what one does as this affects they way they do it which in turns affects what they do.
Click to expand...



I just printed the quote above to UNDERSCORE it and bump it up to the top since I think it is SO IMPORTANT

I know... for instance... that World Vision.. Vision Mundial.. PRAYS over the donated rice that it gives out.. IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST

I know that there are Christian Missionaries HERE in the DR who FLY in medical supplies to the DR areas
VIA HELICOPTERS!! which must make then look like GODS!! and totally disrupts the local commerce for pharmaceuticals.. (and do we not have a good BUS system here??

I know that there have been Baptist Missionaries here on "medical" missions who REQUIRE the patients .. between their visit to the doctor.. and receiving any sort of medication.. to SIT AND LISTEN to THEM PREACHING about their LORD AND SAVIOUR

This sort of stuff is what turned me away from even CALLING myself Christian!!
 
C

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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I was at a planning meeting for another (secular) NGO, the sort of event that some might criticize for being a waste of donors' funds, but at least we were working: the folks from Blurred Vision holding their meeting next door spent most of their time praying loudly, to the extent that we had to ask them to keep it down, we couldn't hear ourselves speak.
 
M

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Chirimoya said:
I was at a planning meeting for another (secular) NGO, the sort of event that some might criticize for being a waste of donors' funds, but at least we were working: the folks from Blurred Vision holding their meeting next door spent most of their time praying loudly, to the extent that we had to ask them to keep it down, we couldn't hear ourselves speak.
Click to expand...

"Blurred VISION"

"Feed the CHICkens!!

I love em!

Got any more?
 
L

Lambada

Rest In Peace Ginnie
Mar 4, 2004
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