Haitians in DR

ElNegrote

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Jos? Franc?sco Pe?a G?mez was often portrayed as a Haitian wanna be Dominican and that portrayal was the number one reason why he never got to sit in the presidential chair. The overall assumption was that to have a pure blooded Haitian or Dominican of 100% Haitian ancestry was to undermine the existance of the DR given that the country got its independence from none other than Haiti.

Its important to note that Pe?a G?mez was the son of a Haitian father and a Haitian mother, unlike many of the other leaders who had partial Haitian ancestry.

-NALs

True about Dr. Pe?a G?mez, although let's not forget that the wily Dr. Balaguer had to use electoral fraud to defeat Pe?a G?mez in 1994, and after recognizing that he could not hold onto the presidency illegally stepped down to allow the 1996 elections, in which he connived with Leonel and the PLD to prevent the PRD and Pe?a G?mez from winning. The tragedy in this is that Pe?a G?mez actually won the first round in 1996, and probably would have made an excellent president, particularly for the poor and working classes of the country. But hey DR isn't the only place claiming to espouse "democracy" where the majority of citizens get cheated by various political tricks and so on. (Cf. US elections, 2000, 2004, etc.)

As for Dominican history, the Ta?nos, la occup?cion haitiana, and so forth, I would recommend Jaime de Jes?s Dom?nguez's Historia Dominicana (Santo Domingo: ABC Editorial, 2001), a popular and highly informative history of the country beginning with "los ind?genas de la Espa?ola"--the original Spanish name of the island, with its cacicazgos that was known in its totality as Hait?--and ending with "Hacia la democracia representativa." The work is in Spanish and it's quite informative. It would definitely benefit those who may not know the complex processes by which the nation we know as the Dominican Republic came into being. (Cf. N??ez de C?ceres and the 1821 declaration of independence as Hait? Espa?ol, the annexation under Boyer, the Trinit?ria, the reannexation by Spain and the restoration, etc.)

Two other excellent studies on Dominican history in English are The Dominican People: A Documentary History, edited by Ernesto Sagas and Orlando Inoa (Princeton: Markus Wiener Publications, 2003), and Quisqueya la Bella, by Alan Cambeira (M. E. Sharpe Inc., 1997). Dr. Cambeira, a Dominican native and novelist who teaches in the US, has also written books entitled ?Qui?nes Son Los Dominicanos? Caleidoscopio turbulento: La identidad nacional de La Rep?blica Dominicana and La Fobia anti-Haitiana en la cultura dominicana (1987) for those who are interested.
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ElNegrote

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A word of caution: we should be a bit hesitant to cite Wikipedia, which has more than once been shown to be unreliable in terms of its information and quality control. Though it's improving, it can still be easily manipulated. There's even software to detect the reliability of its entries.

That said, Exxtol is correct that there was no Dominican Republic as we know it before Haiti annexed the eastern half of the island. In fact, when Haiti declared its freedom in 1804, the eastern portion of the island was under the nominal control of...FRANCE. French general Ferrand had deposed his fellow general Kerveseau, and established control with what were then called "dom?nico-espa?oles" (i.e., residents of Spanish Santo Domingo, as against Saint-Domingue) of the eastern 2/3rds of Hispaniola. Although the Haitians had more than once declared all slaves free across the island and instituted this with the 1804 declaration of independence, Napoleon and Ferrand wanted to maintain slavery, and in 1805 Ferrand attempted to permit a form of it for minors. Dessalines thus launched an invasion eastward in 1805, heading south, with Henri Christophe marching eastward and north, to seize control from Ferrand. Henri-Christophe routed the opposition in Santiago, and then he and Dessalines joined forces at the walls of Santo Domingo and laid siege for 21 days, until a French naval force under Missiessy brought relief. Dessalines returned to Haiti, and on the way--and this is the controversial issue--the Haitian troops committed a number of depredations, including the razing of Monte Cristi, Cotu?, San Francisco de Macor?s, La Vega, Moca, Santiago, and Monte Plata, among other places. Crist?bal supposedly massacred 500 people in a church in Moca, and a similar massacre occurred in Santiago.

For the next three years Ferrand led the eastern portion of the island with the consent of the dom?nico-espa?oles bourgeoisie (burguesia), and a number of French former slaveholders who'd fled to Cuba and France were invited to resettle in Santo Domingo, and did so. Things went okay until 1808, when Napoleon, as part of his imperial designs deposed the Spanish King Fernando VII and placed his brother on the throne, which led the Spanish-affiliated bourgeoisie in the eastern portion of the island to rebel against Ferrand and the French. But get this: they were aided by...P?tion, who presided over southern Haiti, and Christophe, who was Emperor of a northern Haitian kingdom! Why? Because both men, who'd taken control after the assassination of Dessalines, wanted the pro-slavery French ousted, and they also worried that the French could launch invasions against them. They were also aided by the Spanish colony of Puerto Rico, and eventually defeated--routed--the French at the end of 1808 in Palo Hincado, in el Seybo. Ferrand, so disgraced, committed suicide. The dom?nico-espa?oles decided to resume being a Spanish colony, recognize Fernando VII, and name the hero of victory, S?nchez Ram?rez, as governor. Santo Domingo, however, remained under the control of French general Du Barquier, so they besieged the capital, and English naval forces blockaded the city (as they'd done to the French in Haiti several years before), finally forcing the French surrender in 1809, at which point the eastern portion passed into the control of Spain (La Espa?a Boba).

This was a generally recognized difficult period, in which slavery persisted in the eastern portion of the island, there were several failed insurrections (one led by an Italian, one led by slaves near Santo Domingo), and the economic situation was a disaster. After Christophe committed suicide in 1821, Haitian president Boyer unified both halves of Haiti, and then decided to unify the entire island. Representatives from Beller, Dajab?n, Montecristi, and other cities seeking to end slavery went to Port-au-Prince to request that Haiti accept them into its union. This occurred, Boyer freed all the slaves in these cities (as per Haitian law), and as a result, N??ez de C?ceres staged a coup d'?tat, overthrowing the Spanish governor and declaring a new state, Hait? Espa?ol. Although N??ez de C?ceres had promised the mixed-race commander Pablo Al? that he would free slaves in the eastern portion, when he declared independence in December 1821 he did not do so, which enraged the enslaved population of Santo Domingo Espa?ol. Meanwhile, he was seeking to join the eastern portion of the country with Gran Colombia under the leadership of Sim?n Bol?var (just imagine if that had happened!), who he also realized had been aided in its battle against Spain by...HAITI, under P?tion. He sent a delegation to Port-au-Prince to sign a treaty establishing trade, friendship and mutual defense, but Boyer decided that he would unite both countries instead, and invaded, so that in February 1822, the entire island came under the aegis of Haiti. Immediately slavery was abolished across the entire island (to the eternal rage of the slaveholders; keep in mind that this was more than 40 years before the US and 60 before Brazil did so). Among the things that Boyer instituted was land distribution to the former slaves; the French legal codes (which are still in place in part), based on both Napoleonic civil law and the ideas of the French Revolution; and general development of the agricultural sector, including the invitation of former US enslaved people to emigrate to Saman? in 1824.

It was not until 1844 that Trinitaria, led by Duarte and having conspired with Haitians under H?rard to exile Boyer, and then convinced France's ambassador to Haiti to accept a plan that would provide the nascent republic with arms and funding, as well as protection, was able to join with hateros in the east and the mercantile elite to declare independence, and the Dominican Republic, so named, came into being.
 

MIA81

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Here, Here. I do agree that skin colour is the basis for all the hostility against the Haitian people. Haitians are never given fair and equal treatment. Not in the DR, not even in the land of Lady Liberty. There is reason for the low % of Hatians in the US. THEIR SKIN COLOUR. Haitians are almost always sent back to their country for illegal entry into the US. Asylum for political Haitains are few and far between. Yet, everyone else pretty much gets a welcome mat. Talk about deportation of any other group and suddenly they put a human spin on their ordeal. Just listen to some of the debate pertaining to the millions of illegal mexicans living and working in the US. LET'S BE REAL, PLEASE, STOP THE MADNESS! Has anyone visited Aiyti? Just curious.
 

Chip

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Elnegrote


A somewhat informative post but it is obvious the pro Haitian slant you have. Yes, Boyer freed the slaves in SD but the history tells us they were only 9000 out of a much greater population - and his early sporadic popularity was squandered quickly due to his inconsiderate land reform - in fact there was a conspiracy by the Dominicans only 2 years after he invaded to get rid of him.

La ausencia de una clase dominante agraria moderna y la fragmentaci?n de la propiedad junto a la rusticidad tecnol?gica, causaron la inexistencia del mercado interno y una pobreza cr?nica generalizada.

Esta pol?tica de Boyer de alianza con los hateros provoco que la econom?a no siguiera desarroll?ndose al mismo ritmo y que incluso, con el tiempo, la parte dominicana fuese afectada por la crisis estructural creciente de la econom?a haitiana en su conjunto y se crearan de mas en mas condiciones para la independencia dominicana.

Also, Boyer had a complete lack of disregard for the natal language and customs of SD.

Durante 22 a?os ocuparon los haitianos territorio dominicano e intentaron eliminar el idioma y las costumbres. Obligaron a publicar los documentos oficiales en franc?s y otras medidas que atentaban contra la esencia misma de las tradiciones y cultura de lo que vendr?a a ser m?s tarde el pueblo dominicano.

So put that all together, first the massacres in Moca and Santiago:

La parte antigua espa?ola qued? bajo la soberan?a francesa y esto provoc? ataques haitianos que culminaron con horrendos hechos de sangre como el deg?ello de Moca y de Santiago y otras abominables acciones. Estos hechos fueron creando un fuerte sentimiento antihaitiano en la poblaci?n.

and the occupation of SD by the Haitians can it really be unclear why Dominicans have and aversion for things Haitian? I honestly think it is pure fantasy to continue to minimize the Haitian s in affecting (of which they bear 100% of the responsibility) the current negative opinion most Dominicans have of Haitians. I think it does no one any good to try to change history and turn the Haitian government into some type of glorified "liberators" that so many apparently have a desire to see them as.

ref. HISTORIA PATRIA DOMINICANA, SANTO DOMINGO, QUISQUEYA, RD, heroes dominicanos, dominicanos
 

Chip

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Here, Here. I do agree that skin colour is the basis for all the hostility against the Haitian people. Haitians are never given fair and equal treatment. Not in the DR, not even in the land of Lady Liberty. There is reason for the low % of Hatians in the US. THEIR SKIN COLOUR. Haitians are almost always sent back to their country for illegal entry into the US. Asylum for political Haitains are few and far between. Yet, everyone else pretty much gets a welcome mat. Talk about deportation of any other group and suddenly they put a human spin on their ordeal. Just listen to some of the debate pertaining to the millions of illegal mexicans living and working in the US. LET'S BE REAL, PLEASE, STOP THE MADNESS! Has anyone visited Aiyti? Just curious.

FYI, there is quite a large community of Haitians in Florida and elsewhere - there is no conspiracy against blacks, sorry.
The Evolution of the Haitian Diaspora in the USA - Haitians in America - Dynamics of an Evolving Community

Saying that "everyone else pretty much gets a welcome mat" is not based in reality by any stretch of the imagination. For most Dominicans, even getting a tourist visa is an impossibility. For a residency visa - worse, next to impossible.
 

MIA81

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EXXTOL,
Hats off to you! You are right on target with your responses. Can anyone say HIS-TORY and Willy lynch syndrome? That's all I have to add.
 

Chip

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EXXTOL,
Hats off to you! You are right on target with your responses. Can anyone say HIS-TORY and Willy lynch syndrome? That's all I have to add.

Maybe this is why some people have a problem with Dominicans - they want to rewrite their history and then make them accept it - "forced revisionist history" - what is that all about?

Also, why is it so important to paint the Haitians as some type of angelic do-gooders sent from above? And what would be the point of this revisionist history anyway?
 

Texas Bill

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Justificaion for past and present failures, placing the blame for those failures onto the backs of others and attempting to modify the events of the past are the favorite tactics of neo-historians who wish to personify their positions.

One simply cannot blame the present generation for the social and economic impasses that exist today, no matter how the past is twisted by personal desire.

Dominicans are definately justified in their distrust of Haiti and Haitians given the historical events that have taken place.

Repetative bashing of various other nations for the events in their history is a cop out for present day lack of governing capability and social ills created from within indigenous borders.

You can't blame other countries for not wanting to accept the illegal influx of a group which is viewed by that society as inferior in education and morality.

Honesty would focus on solutions from within that society and the manner in which those solutions could be implemented.

I have seen very little evidence of such solutions being offered, nor of the manner in which they could be implimented, but have seen plenty of rhetoric alluding to a responsibility being mal-assigned by those who just don't want to get their hands dirty by doing the job themselves.

The latter are the hipocrits(sp) in this "debate", not the ones who defend their country's soverign rights to control it's own destiny.

Texas Bill
 

MIA81

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Not to take the focus off the DR but check this out for a minute. Two groups of migrants land on a beach in Miami. One group from Haiti and the other from Cuba. The Cubans get a ride to first aid and then clearance to reunite with loved ones in the US. The Haitians, one way ticket to Krome Detention Center. What's up with this ''wet foot, dry foot" policy. Yes, I'm well versed on the Bay of Pigs fiasco but no doubt this double treatment goes way beyond that unfortunate defeat.
 

Chip

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Not to take the focus off the DR but check this out for a minute. Two groups of migrants land on a beach in Miami. One group from Haiti and the other from Cuba. The Cubans get a ride to first aid and then clearance to reunite with loved ones in the US. The Haitians, one way ticket to Krome Detention Center. What's up with this ''wet foot, dry foot" policy. Yes, I'm well versed on the Bay of Pigs fiasco but no doubt this double treatment goes way beyond that unfortunate defeat.

Mexicans and Dominicans and for that matter most latinoamericans will all get the same treatment, with the exception of Columbia and Venezuela, which currently allow for a significant number of people requesting political asylum.

When Cuba has a free government, no doubt things will change - but until then probably not.
 

MIA81

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Hypocrits! That's funny. We sure get self righteous when the truth confronts us. A country's right to self determination?...Hmmm. Guess that type of logic only applies to "civilized" western countries. Wow, where have we been in the last 5-6 years?
 

Exxtol

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For the same reason that Dominican education fails to mention that a full blooded Spaniard lead the independence movement from Haitian domination.

Juan Pablo Duarte has never been regarded as a full blooded Spaniard, he has been and always will be considered a Dominican, the father of the DR, period.

In the same way, Gregorio Luper?n is considered Dominican, not Haitian, not anything else; simply Dominican, period.

Ulises Hereaux, the dictator of the country in the late 1800s was also Dominican, not part-Haitian, but Dominican, period.

Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was a Dominican, not part-Haitian, but Dominican, period.

Pedro Mir was a Dominican, not part-Puerto Rican and part-Cuban, but Dominican, period.

Joaqu?n Balaguer was a Dominican, not part-Puerto Rican, but Dominican, period.

So on and so forth.

-NALs

Nals,

You have given a list of names, but no explicit answer to the question I posed. What's your reasoning?
IMO I find it unlikely the abscence of these facts, particularly that a man of partial haitian descent played a pivotal role in Dominican independence from Spain is anything but accidental--this "irony" per se goes against a national ideology of "anti-hatianismo", that to some extent the hybridization of the Haitian and Dominican in the DR has existed from the beginning.

--Exxtol
 

Chip

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Hypocrits! That's funny. We sure get self righteous when the truth confronts us. A country's right to self determination?...Hmmm. Guess that type of logic only applies to "civilized" western countries. Wow, where have we been in the last 5-6 years?

FYI, there are more "Western" countries than the US and EVERYBODY knows at this point going where they went was a big mistake - yet apparently few realize it would only be worse to leave a country in the midst of a civil war.
 

Chris

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FYI, there are more "Western" countries than the US and EVERYBODY knows at this point going where they went was a big mistake - yet apparently few realize it would only be worse to leave a country in the midst of a civil war.

Nonsense! Excuses! Buying into the major scam that was perpetrated on more than one country and more than one people. Good people and bad! People who trusted their administration. Many knew before - and spoke out!. I had many-many posts deleted on here! No-one listened as the fear culture was so effectively entrenched! Get the hell out and leave people to self-determination. Exterminating a complete culture is unconciable. (How on earth does one spell that word?) And it is still going on!

What does Greenspan say .. "An administration that swapped principle for power!"

This will probably be my 120th post deleted about this subject on this board. Sorry mod for this knee jerk!

What does Texas Bill say ... "The latter are the hipocrits(sp) in this "debate", not the ones who defend their country's soverign rights to control it's own destiny."

My country is at peace perhaps because we kicked the current world bully out!

Have respect for other countries' sovereign rights and we talk again Se?or. That includes the country that you spell with a C and the one that you spell with an R, as well as the two you spell with an I! As well as the one you spell with an H!
 

Chip

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Nals,

You have given a list of names, but no explicit answer to the question I posed. What's your reasoning?
IMO I find it unlikely the abscence of these facts, particularly that a man of partial haitian descent played a pivotal role in Dominican independence from Spain is anything but accidental--this "irony" per se goes against a national ideology of "anti-hatianismo", that to some extent the hybridization of the Haitian and Dominican in the DR has existed from the beginning.

--Exxtol

Why does this seem unusual? the fact is many Domincans today will tell you that they have a grandfather or grandmother that were of Haitian descent - but ask them what they are and they will tell you that the are 110% Dominican.

So therefore it shouldn't be difficult to understand that Domincans leave their racial heritage "at the door", so to speak with regard to their past. Again, if the Haitians hadn't made the Dominicans despise them so long ago they still wouldn't be taliking about it today - much like many AA resent whites for slavery so long ago in the US. It is a simple dynamic and there is nothing more insiduous - do evil to a people and they will remember it for a long, long time - is that wholly right and justifyable? No, but it is a sad fact of life unfortunately.
 

Chip

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Nonsense! Excuses! Buying into the major scam that was perpetrated on more than one country and more than one people. Good people and bad! People who trusted their administration. Many knew before - and spoke out!. I had many-many posts deleted on here! No-one listened as the fear culture was so effectively entrenched! Get the hell out and leave people to self-determination. Exterminating a complete culture is unconciable. (How on earth does one spell that word?) And it is still going on!

What does Greenspan say .. "An administration that swapped principle for power!"

This will probably be my 120th post deleted about this subject on this board. Sorry mod for this knee jerk!

What does Texas Bill say ... "The latter are the hipocrits(sp) in this "debate", not the ones who defend their country's soverign rights to control it's own destiny."

My country is at peace perhaps because we kicked the current world bully out!

Have respect for other countries' sovereign rights and we talk again Se?or. That includes the country that you spell with a C and the one that you spell with an R, as well as the two you spell with an I! As well as the one you spell with an H!

What part of "mistake" did you not understand?

We shouldn't have gone there but what will happen if we leave? They will all kill eachother and bring the whole region into war for sure - that certainly is a moral solution - invade a country and then leave it to a bloody civil war, oh brother!
 

Exxtol

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Exxtol

Maybe the DR at the time of the invasion by the Haitians wasn't actually called the DR, it was Spanish Haiti, but that is completely irrelavant because the Domincan people had an established society with their own language and customs, much different from the Haitians. This just can't be glossed over and made insignificant. Yes the blacks liberated themselves on the West side of the island (and a small number on the East) but what they did in the east Hispaniola at that time obviously wasn't going to ingratiate the people. I understand their was some support on the Santo Domingo side for Haiti's intervention but needless to say it wasn't long before Boyer wore out his welcome. The Haitians didn't want to give up control and fought aggresively to deny the Dominicans their independence. In fact, history tells us that the Santiagueros were terrified of the impending attack by the Haitian army.

I've already addressed this.

I'm also sure there was little European influence felt by the Haitians to deny the Dominicans their independence and send there troops to kill them so in this instance, the European influence is irrelevant.


Save Spain and France's credible threats to reinstitute slavery on the island. Haiti's primary objective in unification was induced by a very real and justifiable paranoia. Or do you really believe that Spain and France would give up so easily on an investment and money-maker as big as Hispaniola???? I think not.

Therefore, the Haitians exclusively bear the responsibility of being seen as they do by Dominicans, for right or wrong - just as much as the American whites do for the opression of AA during slavery and later. When will Dominicans change their attitude, who knows? But people being people, I expect them to change it when AA's change their attitudes towards white Americans.

You continue to confuse me with these gross generalizations and comparisons that have nothing to do w/the Dominican Republic. What role if any does the African-American attitude towards whites in the US have to do with the Dominican's attitude towards Haitians? I'm trying to follow a non-sensical comparison here and it's not working.

What would be the solution? Forgiveness of course - don't make the sons pay for the deeds of the fathers (2 Chronicles 25:4) and don't judge the whole based on a few.

Not everyone endorses religion remember? ;).

This has been an interesting debate, but has taken way too much time away from my studies! I'll leave the rest of you to have at it.


This has been an interesting debate, but has taken way too much time away from my studies! I'll leave the rest of you to have at it.

--Exxtol
 

Chip

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Exxtol

The following comment wasn't directed to you but to Elnegrote and Bi something. If you read their posts it will be clear what I am talking about - a misconception that somehow the "whites" are at the root of the problem Dominicans have with Haitians as opposed to the facts of their historical conflict. I used the analogy to put it into terms they are certainly familar with.

Therefore, the Haitians exclusively bear the responsibility of being seen as they do by Dominicans, for right or wrong - just as much as the American whites do for the opression of AA during slavery and later. When will Dominicans change their attitude, who knows? But people being people, I expect them to change it when AA's change their attitudes towards white Americans.