Hait's religious leader

[getthesenets]

Voodoo FAQs

taken from that site.....

Emmanuel offers three different casting levels at three different prices. These are complete, advanced, and detailed. The complete spells should not be viewed as basic - these are truly complete Voodoo spells. Nothing is missing and these spells are guaranteed to elicit results.



I don't doubt that the selling of curses is a business that some houngans engage in..it's quite silly. With no WRITTEN rules, liturgy, or guide...it is hard for an outsider to know whether this violates the overall spirit or essence of the faith.*

In one of the article that I linked, a respected and well known houngan is interviewed and he talks about the chicanery, fraud, etc that goes on in the community (and how it happened to him)

*The protestant reformation itself occurred because people had issues with priests employing commerce when dealing with members of their flock...selling blessings....confessions,etc( the protestors saw that certain practices violated certain verses and scriptures and they saw that the priests were hypocrites)


Selling of curses is stupidity, any way you slice it...but what I've been trying to get people to see in this thread is that if you have an understanding of religious history...you place voudou or any other faith in context.....you'll see patterns to what has happened before with other faiths. history does repeat itself.

Faith, the interpretation of it for personal benefit, the exploitation/destruction of others in the NAME of it, the manipulation of it, the use of it for positivity has been going on forever and always will.

People who know history are aware of these things already.

 

[Chip]

Have you ever read Psalm 109 from the KJV of the bible?

In my version the speaker starts out by saying he is unjustly and without cause slandered by his neighbors even though he only does good for them and even prays for them. At the end of the psalm he appears to be asking for revenge and this is understandable. However, Romans 12:19 clearly explains revenge for a believer is not an option.

 

[Chip]

I don't doubt that the selling of curses is a business that some houngans engage in..it's quite silly. With no WRITTEN rules, liturgy, or guide...it is hard for an outsider to know whether this violates the overall spirit or essence of the faith.*

From what I have heard from Dominicans with Haitian relatives, etc is that casting spells is very prevalent. With regard to the "essence of the faith" I assume faiths that employ human sacrifice, feminine genital multilation, etc are all ok because a lot of people believe in them?

 

[catcherintherye]

A lot of people believe in human sacrifice??? What religion adheres to that doctrine?

 

[getthesenets]

From what I have heard from Dominicans with Haitian relatives, etc is that casting spells is very prevalent. With regard to the "essence of the faith" I assume faiths that employ human sacrifice, feminine genital multilation, etc are all ok because a lot of people believe in them?

My ENTIRE last post to bob explained my overall point about this.


but let's clear up everything....

depending on a person's natural level of inquisitiveness or pre conceived notions about something......they will either look for something that validates what they think they know about something, or that challenges it.

the name of the site that bob linked to has on the top of it

"Emmanuel's Real voodoo spells"

nuff said


None of the links that you had put up before confirmed or even mentioned the points you brought up. You haven't acknowledged this but just posted another link. How about ACTUALLY going to one of the public libraries in DR and getting your hands on a few books? It's clearly a subject that you show interest in...don't cheat yourself by reading something that showed up on a google search.



I'm not.and nobody here is..trying to get you to accept voudou or convert to it..but you entered this thread willingly....and if you're gonna continue posting here...we have to assume that it is to learn and contribute to the subject. Voudou is a part of Haiti's history and society. Whether you or anybody else likes it or not.....whether you are anyone else thinks it's pagan, primitive or anything else.
We're trying to get to the root of the western perception of it, and some of the truths and misconceptions of it.

Now you're injecting "female genital mutilation/circumcision" into the conversation when it has ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on this topic.

 

[getthesenets]

From what I have heard from Dominicans with Haitian relatives, etc is that casting spells is very prevalent. With regard to the "essence of the faith" I assume faiths that employ human sacrifice, feminine genital multilation, etc are all ok because a lot of people believe in them?

clarification....I said, that I didn't know whether the selling of spells by priests/houngans violates the spirit of the faith. I think it's pretty clear that this is what I meant..as I later alluded to priests "selling" services in catholicism as one of the reasons why the reformation took place.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Human sacrifice was quite common in primitive beliefs. Ignoring this fact out of convenience will not make it disappear.

I cannot speak for all ' primitive beliefs' (interesting choice of words btw) but in the original African practices human sacrifice was almost unheard of (to the tune of once a decade or less) and only to be perfomed by the very highest ranking priests on approval of the body of priests and the king of Ile Ife.

Now if you object to sacrifice practices, then you should also object to the old testament in which sacrifice is very common (even the point of human sacrifices are adressed if you include the initial request God made of Abraham)..

From your posts it seems you are very much uneducated in these matter. This is not a problem as such, but does preclude you imo from making sweeping statements or judging about other faiths than your own.

Like I've posted before, si no sepas no te metas por favor

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Voodoo FAQs

Bob,

This is a very commercialised website designed to pander wares, not to really explain or intridce anything. It is horribly onesided.

 

[bob saunders]

Bob,

This is a very commercialised website designed to pander wares, not to really explain or intridce anything. It is horribly onesided.

Didn't say it wasn't but it does give several good definitions.

 

[bob saunders]

My understanding of Voodoo is that it is a blending of a number of African beliefs combined with Catholic religion. Chip should really research the true voodoo religion and he would realize the folly of his beliefs.
VODUN (and related religions: Candomble, Lucumi, Macumba, Voodoo, Vodoun, & Yoruba)
The webpage has a number of informative links at the bottom.

 

[woofsback]

i'm not totally up on the latest on voodoo
just the stuff i have heard...read...or seen on tv.

someone said it was started in haiti

imo...if sacrifice is a basis for voodoo
weren't the incas and azteks doing it in the americas long before christopher colombus was even born?

didn't the inquisition burn what they considered heretics
and pray to god to save thier souls...
to me that's the same as
sacrificing someone else's opinion to justify your own

 

[Chip]

Like I've posted before, si no sepas no te metas por favor

Well you've convinced yourself at least with your argument.

 

[ExtremeR]

My understanding of Voodoo is that it is a blending of a number of African beliefs combined with Catholic religion. Chip should really research the true voodoo religion and he would realize the folly of his beliefs.
VODUN (and related religions: Candomble, Lucumi, Macumba, Voodoo, Vodoun, & Yoruba)
The webpage has a number of informative links at the bottom.

That's Santeria. Voodoo is more raw.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

My understanding of Voodoo is that it is a blending of a number of African beliefs combined with Catholic religion. Chip should really research the true voodoo religion and he would realize the folly of his beliefs.
.

This is fairly correct. Due to the melting pot in the new world of several different tribes coming over, and the persecution by the Catholics the original religions were amalgated with each other and with Catholicism.

If the oral history is correct then IFA is the starting point for Voudou out of Benin. Furthermore, Santeria and Candombl? have always been based on IFA with a veneer of Catholicism. Especially in current times you see a return to African practices with cross-pollenation from African priests restoring traditional practices in IFA, Santeria and Candombl?.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Well you've convinced yourself at least with your argument.

In this discussion you truly are out of your debt.

Please refer to the books of Matthew 7:7-11 and Luke 11:9-13 on seeking, asking and knocking.

I won't go as far as to quote you Matthew 7:6, but sometimes it does feel like you truly won't accept the wisdom of your betters in this discourse.

There a none so blind as those who refuse to see

 

[Squat]

In this discussion you truly are out of your debt.

Please refer to the books of Matthew 7:7-11 and Luke 11:9-13 on seeking, asking and knocking.

I won't go as far as to quote you Matthew 7:6, but sometimes it does feel like you truly won't accept the wisdom of your betters in this discourse.

There a none so blind as those who refuse to see

Don't you think you are getting a bit mixed up ?
Anyway, we have a new voodoo specialist here... Can be useful sometimes... After self-appointed Haiti-guru Mountainannie...
No hard feelings, I am just glad to be as far away as possible of all that stuff, and I know very well why...

 

[Mariot]

Human sacrifice was quite common in primitive beliefs. Ignoring this fact out of convenience will not make it disappear.

you mean as in

first off, no religion has been created to slaughter innocent people, and second, where there is an uprising, innocent people will be killed. third, those were different times, and you can bet that french commandars told their troops to kill those black pagan savages in the name of christianity when they fought the slaves.
if you go to the roots of it, christianity is just as primitive as any other religion. not even fifty years before those slaves formulated their preyer, innocent women were still being burned for witchcraft in europe. is that not primitive? and where is the difference to human sacrifices? all those achievements christians today are claiming as their own, like tolerance, human rights etc. had to be fought for against the violent resistance of the church.
are we supposed to presume that christianity was designed to enslave and slaughter people because it was used to justify among other attrocities the crusades, the conquista, the slave trade, the inquisition and the colonization of africa?

so please, stop calling non ignorance political correctness in order to make it seem wrong to think before you speak.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Don't you think you are getting a bit mixed up ?
Anyway, we have a new voodoo specialist here... Can be useful sometimes... After self-appointed Haiti-guru Mountainannie...
No hard feelings, I am just glad to be as far away as possible of all that stuff, and I know very well why...

Are you Chip?

 

[AlterEgo]

I think this thread has run its course, and can only go downhill from here. I also think many of us learned something new!

That's all folks!

AE