Have you ever considered

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Half full or empty I doubt anyone else is as honest and as comprehensive in their responses.
I am sure AZB with a few good friends and a few beers is a great fun guy like anyone else.....
Of all the posters here AZB has my attention most of the time.....but that does not mean I always agree with him.

Skippy1

hahaha, I don't expect people to agree with me. these are my views, stemming from my experiences. So everyone has slightly different reality based on their experiences. Don't forget, there is a generation gap among the readers too. I only expect people to take that makes sense to them, and leave what sounds like irrelevant.
AZB
 
Mar 2, 2008
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Good for you AZB. I'm another attentive reader of your posts. Although I disagree with you at times, you appear to me to be both honest and sincere. Like most of us, you have different moods, and sometimes shifting positions, but overall I listen closely to what you have to say, and I even agree with you occasionally. Just keep telling like you see it and no one can complain.
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Bravo for this thread

I think this is one of the best threads in ages. I also always felt this is where AZB thinking always was but never expressed it as well as he did in this thread.

JOHN
 

Skippy1

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Feb 21, 2008
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what an excellent thread.
so far we are a bit down on the really positives and some of those are very low on content.
We have a real mix some waiting to return home to dip into the free heath care and education while not paying any taxes. Others who seem to have been here so long they are not ever likely to leave as leaving would be like emigrating all over again, their memories of home probably now long out of date.
One slightly unhinged and subjecting the family to sufference while they continue to hide from the authorities back home. (LOL)
And the most encouraging AZB who warts and all does gives a good reason for being here and demonstrates more than most the journey it is and the reality of living here

Skippy1
 
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sybillecutey

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May 16, 2007
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When I was living in puerto plata (1998-2000), I came to a point where I seriously thought I had made a mistake in moving to DR. At first i was happier than ever, living in costambar, ocean view and all. I made friends with expats and dominicans. had a few dominican female friends as well. Then I quickly got bored with all the daily routines. I soon, realized, there was no culture or genuine activities to do or to participate in except, drinking, talking BS with other drunk expats in bars and looking at hookers on malecon. The discos are full of hookers, the expats friends are always with hookers or chasing hookers. girls always in need of money, even the, so called, decent girls were not far away from being semi hookers. I thought I had learned spanish and was proud to be able to speak to street dominicans. hahahahaha. So I thought. But but, why was it I couldn't understand any spanish songs, spanish movies from other countries etc?
It came to a point when I totally gave up with everything there. I came to a premature conclusion that Dominicans were putos, poor, girls were hookers or semi hookers, people were uneducated and all looking for foreigners for $$$$$ and visa. The business was bad too, because expats and dominicans were both, either broke, or too cheap to pay for services that they needed.
So I was thinking of returning to atlanta and starting all over again. Thanks god I have a good, supportive family to help me out in a jam. As I was discussing all this with my american friend who lives in santo domingo, he advised me to stay and promised to find me work in another city. He calls me in a few days to tell me about a clinic in santiago, who were looking for a chiropractor to work in. I went over and they were happy to accept me in their group. from day one, I had come to realize, this was a whole different country. The people were far more educated, it was like a real country, not a senior citizen retirement beach resort. There were real businesses, people with real jobs and real american style grocery stores and the night life was something to write home about; not to mention the women, hahahaha, totally in a different class than the ones in puerto plata. I felt as if I had wasted 2 yrs of my life in the north coast. I had come to realize, I had gotten nothing out of living in the north coast. Except for a few people, I didn't meet any quality folks, expats or dominicans. It became apparent that i had learned no spanish either because I was unable to communicate with the santiagueros.
After this point, my life began to change. I started to make money. I learned spanish better and quickly. Made domincian friends who helped me get back on my feet. I got me a better house to live in, prices were far better here. In short, I found what i was looking for in a latin american country. i was finally with people whom I respected and was happy to live with. Life took the turn for the best but but then, Hipolito came and all went to hell. After 4 yrs of enduring PRD, I had reached another point in my life where I took a decision: if hipolito wins another 4 yrs of term, I am going back. Thanks god, he lost miserably and I was able to stay. Life is not all that great now, in this economy, but compared to my friends in USA and in europe, I think i am still better off here than anywhere else. If I had to move again, I would live in colombia.
AZB

Why Colombia ?
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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so far we are a bit down on the really positives and some of those are very low on content.

You know why? I can understand the one line responses of those who gave them. The OP asked had we ever considered leaving (& if so what made us stay). If one has never considered leaving then the answer is 'no'. If one has considered leaving & rethought then there is something to expand on, as some posters have done. But I can well understand people who are sufficiently happy in their contentment not to need to expand. They have no need to prove anything either to themselves or others. They just 'are'. And it's a nice place to be. :)
 

Skippy1

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Feb 21, 2008
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You know why? I can understand the one line responses of those who gave them. The OP asked had we ever considered leaving (& if so what made us stay). If one has never considered leaving then the answer is 'no'. If one has considered leaving & rethought then there is something to expand on, as some posters have done. But I can well understand people who are sufficiently happy in their contentment not to need to expand. They have no need to prove anything either to themselves or others. They just 'are'. And it's a nice place to be. :)

What you say is very true.
It would however be nice for the more positive responses to be more detailed. Some readers may be have had the same experience or have thought/felt the same way at some time. The interesting part of all this is the way people rationalise their reasons and how they are formed.
Don't you think so?

Skippy1
 

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Don't understand

what an excellent thread.
so far we are a bit down on the really positives and some of those are very low on content.
We have a real mix some waiting to return home to dip into the free heath care and education while not paying any taxes. Others who seem to have been here so long they are not ever likely to leave as leaving would be like emigrating all over again, their memories of home probably now long out of date.
One slightly unhinged and subjecting the family to sufference while they continue to hide from the authorities back home. (LOL)
And the most encouraging AZB who warts and all does gives a good reason for being here and demonstrates more than most the journey it is and the reality of living here

Skippy1

this post. Let me explain. This is not a critique (at least I thought) on living in the DR, mearly "would you leave and why?" Your post seems to push the envelope for the unsaid or what ideas you have in mind. Did I read you wrong? Maybe, I just started drinking 110P.
JOHN
 

Lambada

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This is not a critique (at least I thought) on living in the DR, mearly "would you leave and why?" JOHN

Or 'did you decide to leave and change your mind & stay'. I agree with johne's interpretation of the original question.

I think I'd prefer to see if korejdk (the OP) feels his question was answered sufficiently, or whether there is something more that he would like. His thread, he calls the tune.
 

Lambada

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Lambada, any shared experience are most appreciated :)

OK but I'm not sure what I can add to what I've already said. Why it never occurred to me to leave? Because I'm stubborn maybe, because during the times it was difficult I knew it would get better & it did (my life here, not the country itself ;)), because for me the journey is more important than the destination but when you can combine the two.........happy days :):). Is that the sort of thing?
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
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I have lived full-time in the DR since 2000 (not that long). In the process, I have gone from a vocabulary of maybe 20 words in Spanish to probably 85% fluency. (my fault because I have chosen to speak English at home, but to the benefit of my dominican family)

I have set up companies here. I have dealt a great deal with Migraci?n, Customs, trucking and shipping companies, freight brokers, insurance companies (can anyone else claim to have lost all of their coverage with the failures of both Segna AND BanInter?), security companies, banks, and with the police on a few occasions. I have fought with the telephone companies and AES and usually won. Due to my limited Spanish in the beginning, it was always a long process, but normally in the end, I got done what had to be done.

In the beginning, I spent some time at Boca Chica beach, and in El Conde. I met a wide variety of people there, but looking back, I had the same experiences that AZB had in the North Coast. Most foreigners I met there were either drunks, chasing hookers, or stuck here without a lifeline. I heard many sob stories, and it always ended up with the topic of money. I would just walk away and thanks to good advice from a few, never got taken for a ride.

When I first came here, my main source of information was the internet. Before I found DR1, I read many B:S websites about the DR, "from the experts". Even bought a couple of "Learn it All about the DR" books. What drivel. Written by folks who had probably lived here for a year, thought they knew it all, so they wrote a book and helped newbies arrive and settle in (for a big cut of course - they needed a way to make money fast after all).

I had the good fortune to meet a couple of gems in the beginning, who steered me away from trouble, and also taught me the ways of the DR. I also found DR1 about this time, and read the advice of many long-timers like Hillbilly here. These days, I have two friends who are Americans, a couple Europeans, and the rest dominicanos. I normally avoid tourists if possible.

I moved to a middle-class neighborhood in Santo Domingo that is almost entirely dominicans, close enough to the things I needed or wanted in my life, but without tourists being too close. I too lived in a building were the norm was loud music. I first moved to this area just before Christmas, and did not understand the concept of the 13th bonus checks, and everyone having a 3 week vacation and enough money to get plastered every night. I still had to go to work, after loud music lasting until the madrugada every night. After the first year, I moved to another apartment in a nearby area, which I later figured out was more truly a "middle-class" neighborhood where the neighbors respect and look out for each other.

I consider the DR to be my home and have burned all bridges from my birth country (with the exception of their passport for now). I love the campo, the beautiful sights, the mountains, etc.

Due to my job, I am temporarily working in Mexico, far away from Mexico City. In a lot of aspects, it has perhaps removed some of the glaze over my eyes which came from living in the DR every day. We still maintain our home in Santo Domingo, but when I return home for visits, the things that bug me are now readily apparent. Where do I start?

-the incredible amount of hassle required to do many simple things
-the stresses which most dominicans face every day - no money, expensive food, blackouts
-the argumentative and disrespectful nature of many dominicans in the streets
-the NOISE
-the air and garbage pollution in Santo Domingo
-the expenses -maintenance fees, taxis, food
-legal services in the DR STINK! (why is it that so many abogados here insist on being treated as a professional, and then turn around and act very Unprofessionally?) the blame always seems to lie in "our outdated set of law", hahahaha)

My child went to a "good" school in Santo Domingo. (Chiri knows which one) She now attends a school in MX. She came into the MX school at a level about 6 months behind her peers, so I guess that either the school or the school system in general is better in MX. I know, it's my fault, I was working too much to help more at home with schoolwork.

On the other hand, when I come back, the people I know seem to be happy to see me. The guys in the colmado are happy to see me, and catch up, and have a beer or two. The neighbors come and knock on the door if they know we are there. It's always great to take a spin out to el campo and see the sights, and breath the fresh air, and unwind. The few dealings I have had with either government or utility companies actually seem a bit easier too, and more organized. I really miss getting my mail through CPS. That's one impossibility here in MX.

I've tried to buy three different apartments in Santo Domingo. There were title problems with all three, and with the last one, my attorney told me to RUN, not walk, away from the deal. I have so far refused to buy an overpriced apartment that is wedged into a high-rise neighborhood in the Polygonal, when a better apartment is available in Zona Oriental or to the west for 60% of the price. I hate Arroyo Hondo.

Now, with the global $$ problems, I am waiting for the schitt to hit the fan in Santo Domingo. Maybe then, once the speculative prices have dropped, I will buy an apartment at a reasonable cost. For me, now, it's a fantasy world. Did I read correctly that with materials prices going up and up, and sales going down and down, that prices of apartments in Santo Domingo actually went UP 15% in either March or April? What loons!

Although I consider my home to be the DR, I am now unsure whether I will return to live there again on a permanent basis as long as I am working. I am not sure that I could create an equivalent job for myself there ( I want to work another 10 years before retiring). We will keep our home there, but I really don't know if I can again live in Santo Domingo full-time. Like they say, never go back, just keep the memories. If we do move back to live, it will not be in Santo Domingo, but probably farther out in El Campo, Rick Snyder-style, where life seems to be simpler.

As always, maybe I am too windy, but I always try to answer a question without leaving more questions. How did I do? (and why do I feel like my pants are down around my ankles at this moment??)
 
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Skippy1

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Feb 21, 2008
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this post. Let me explain. This is not a critique (at least I thought) on living in the DR, mearly "would you leave and why?" Your post seems to push the envelope for the unsaid or what ideas you have in mind. Did I read you wrong? Maybe, I just started drinking 110P.
JOHN

John, you posed a good question that I thought had a lot of mileage.
There are some here (like me) who are not long term residents yet. However I am planning on staying at least another 4 -5 years. So I am keen to understand the thoughts and views of others who have been here longer.
As you seem to feel your thread has been hijacked I am sorry for asking for more detailed responses from some who have just said "no never" which would have added to the range and scope of the views already posted. Many people live as Ex pats for many different reasons some make it a career like me having spent over thirty years travelling and working around the world.

Its this more helpfull?

Skippy1
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
Carlos
Very informative, just a couple of comments compared with my experiance in Santiago:

-the incredible amount of hassle required to do many simple things

If you mean setting up power and telephone service, bank accounts and businesses, yes, other stuff not noticeably different.

-the stresses which most dominicans face every day - no money, expensive food, blackouts

I'm curious, how did this affect you in a negative way?

-the argumentative and disrespectful nature of many dominicans in the streets

Must be the captial, I don't see that here a lot in Santiago. People act worse back home in the States. If you are talking abouty late at night in the hotspots in town, that is probably different.

-the NOISE

We don't have that problem in our urbanizacion here in Satingo, thanks to our junta.

-the air and garbage pollution in Santo Domingo

In Santiago, it may be a less or worse possibly, depending on what part of town one lives.

-the expenses

We have found things here to be very cheap comparatively, except for eating out.

-maintenance fees, taxis, food

food is still cheaper here in the Dr than in the states, the other stuss I wouldn't know.

-legal services in the DR STINK!

This can be difficult, that is why it's best to have a cunya(sp) to make things go smoother. It can be done though.
 

AK74

On Vacation!
Jun 18, 2007
842
36
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I have lived full-time in the DR since 2000 (not that long). In the process, I have gone from a vocabulary of maybe 20 words in Spanish to probably 85% fluency. (my fault because I have chosen to speak English at home, but to the benefit of my dominican family)

I have set up companies here. I have dealt a great deal with Migraci?n, Customs, trucking and shipping companies, freight brokers, insurance companies (can anyone else claim to have lost all of their coverage with the failures of both Segna AND BanInter?), security companies, banks, and with the police on a few occasions. I have fought with the telephone companies and AES and usually won. Due to my limited Spanish in the beginning, it was always a long process, but normally in the end, I got done what had to be done.

In the beginning, I spent some time at Boca Chica beach, and in El Conde. I met a wide variety of people there, but looking back, I had the same experiences that AZB had in the North Coast. Most foreigners I met there were either drunks, chasing hookers, or stuck here without a lifeline. I heard many sob stories, and it always ended up with the topic of money. I would just walk away and thanks to good advice from a few, never got taken for a ride.

When I first came here, my main source of information was the internet. Before I found DR1, I read many B:S websites about the DR, "from the experts". Even bought a couple of "Learn it All about the DR" books. What drivel. Written by folks who had probably lived here for a year, thought they knew it all, so they wrote a book and helped newbies arrive and settle in (for a big cut of course - they needed a way to make money fast after all).

I had the good fortune to meet a couple of gems in the beginning, who steered me away from trouble, and also taught me the ways of the DR. I also found DR1 about this time, and read the advice of many long-timers like Hillbilly here. These days, I have two friends who are Americans, a couple Europeans, and the rest dominicanos. I normally avoid tourists if possible.

I moved to a middle-class neighborhood in Santo Domingo that is almost entirely dominicans, close enough to the things I needed or wanted in my life, but without tourists being too close. I too lived in a building were the norm was loud music. I first moved to this area just before Christmas, and did not understand the concept of the 13th bonus checks, and everyone having a 3 week vacation and enough money to get plastered every night. I still had to go to work, after loud music lasting until the madrugada every night. After the first year, I moved to another apartment in a nearby area, which I later figured out was more truly a "middle-class" neighborhood where the neighbors respect and look out for each other.

I consider the DR to be my home and have burned all bridges from my birth country (with the exception of their passport for now). I love the campo, the beautiful sights, the mountains, etc.

Due to my job, I am temporarily working in Mexico, far away from Mexico City. In a lot of aspects, it has perhaps removed some of the glaze over my eyes which came from living in the DR every day. We still maintain our home in Santo Domingo, but when I return home for visits, the things that bug me are now readily apparent. Where do I start?

-the incredible amount of hassle required to do many simple things
-the stresses which most dominicans face every day - no money, expensive food, blackouts
-the argumentative and disrespectful nature of many dominicans in the streets
-the NOISE
-the air and garbage pollution in Santo Domingo
-the expenses -maintenance fees, taxis, food
-legal services in the DR STINK! (why is it that so many abogados here insist on being treated as a professional, and then turn around and act very Unprofessionally?) the blame always seems to lie in "our outdated set of law", hahahaha)

My child went to a "good" school in Santo Domingo. (Chiri knows which one) She now attends a school in MX. She came into the MX school at a level about 6 months behind her peers, so I guess that either the school or the school system in general is better in MX. I know, it's my fault, I was working too much to help more at home with schoolwork.

On the other hand, when I come back, the people I know seem to be happy to see me. The guys in the colmado are happy to see me, and catch up, and have a beer or two. The neighbors come and knock on the door if they know we are there. It's always great to take a spin out to el campo and see the sights, and breath the fresh air, and unwind. The few dealings I have had with either government or utility companies actually seem a bit easier too, and more organized. I really miss getting my mail through CPS. That's one impossibility here in MX.

I've tried to buy three different apartments in Santo Domingo. There were title problems with all three, and with the last one, my attorney told me to RUN, not walk, away from the deal. I have so far refused to buy an overpriced apartment that is wedged into a high-rise neighborhood in the Polygonal, when a better apartment is available in Zona Oriental or to the west for 60% of the price. I hate Arroyo Hondo.

Now, with the global $$ problems, I am waiting for the schitt to hit the fan in Santo Domingo. Maybe then, once the speculative prices have dropped, I will buy an apartment at a reasonable cost. For me, now, it's a fantasy world. Did I read correctly that with materials prices going up and up, and sales going down and down, that prices of apartments in Santo Domingo actually went UP 15% in either March or April? What loons!

Although I consider my home to be the DR, I am now unsure whether I will return to live there again on a permanent basis as long as I am working. I am not sure that I could create an equivalent job for myself there ( I want to work another 10 years before retiring). We will keep our home there, but I really don't know if I can again live in Santo Domingo full-time. Like they say, never go back, just keep the memories. If we do move back to live, it will not be in Santo Domingo, but probably farther out in El Campo, Rick Snyder-style, where life seems to be simpler.

As always, maybe I am too windy, but I always try to answer a question without leaving more questions. How did I do? (and why do I feel like my pants are down around my ankles at this moment??)

Thank you for a honest, serious and intelligent story! Probably the only one on this thread (or one of very few) without hidden fear of RE prices to go down and less tourists to come with their dollars if the whole truth is said.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
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429
0
Santiago
Thank you for a honest, serious and intelligent story! Probably the only one on this thread (or one of very few) without hidden fear of RE prices to go down and less tourists to come with their dollars if the whole truth is said.

I guess you didn't read my response. BTW, I could care less what real estate does here in the DR; I bought my home to live in it, not as an investment. Also, my responses were honest and unbiased by any agenda.
 

AK74

On Vacation!
Jun 18, 2007
842
36
0
I guess you didn't read my response. BTW, I could care less what real estate does here in the DR; I bought my home to live in it, not as an investment. Also, my responses were honest and unbiased by any agenda.


Sorry! And your post/response also is good honest and mature in substance.

Valid!
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
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OK Chip, I'll try to explain further what I mean:

the NOISE: no mufflers, motores blatttting and guauguas chugging down every main street with the conductor shouting at any and all pedestrians, radios blasting out of almost all colmados and too many cars, TV sets blaring from every building, every other car honking their horns for any reason, and women shouting at each other and their kids, audible from the street. And this is in the daytime. Try walking down any main street in Santo Domingo and deny this. Thankfully, one doesn't hear most of this when driving with the A/C everywhere.

the stresses of everyday dominicans without money: even more so, any foreigner begins to look like a piggy bank, and if walking, endless chorus of "dame algo...." and outstretched hands. Give nothing, or say "no tengo nada" and get cursed as you walk away. It gets old fast.

Disrespectful and argumentative people in the street: go anywhere near where taxistas are gathered, and see men beating on other taxis, shouting ugly words, etc..... Even when they are with friends, their language is coarse, loud and ugly.....Watch when two guaguas block the street as they try to outjockey each other to the curb while impeding any competition (and the rest of traffic) so that they can pick up one extra passenger in their chattara..... Watch people as they pass a bicyle vendor in the street with lots of traffic, and try to run over them, or force them to stop so they can pass...... Follow any girl who would rate a "4" or higher down a sidewalk, and listen to the crude things every dominicano between the ages of 15 and 80 say to them as they pass....Watch the shiny jeepetas try to turn a corner while nearly running down pedestrians and then shouting ugly things at the pedestrian for being in the way...... Try parking where some guy has staked out his own mobile carwashing service (a bucket and a rag) along the curb, tell them "no thanks" and come back to your car with a new scratch down the side, or a broken taillight..... Dominican driving habits in general...

The expense: my rent for a similar property here in Mexico is less than half of what it is in Santo Domingo. My electricity is 1/4 the cost (EVERYONE pays and it's ALWAYS working), gas is less than 1/2, groceries are less than 1/2, medical care is equal but with more knowledgeable doctors, plumbers and handymen are about 1/4 the cost (and they finish the job in MX), taxis are about 1/2.

hassles for simple things: (one example) Go to the supermarket. When you get to the checkout, how many things don't have prices, so the bagger has to go back to find several prices which "aren't in the system". Also, why does the checker have a scale, if you have to remember to get everything tagged back in the vegetable section? (I'm still scratching my head over this - is this to create another job, or is the checker not bright enough to know what's coming over her counter?) Meanwhile, you wait.. and wait.. and wait, for something that ultimately costs 15 pesos. It normally takes me longer in the line and to pay, than it does to fill up the cart, and I normally go when it's quiet. Just a little thing, but it happens every week for me here at Nacional or La Cadena.

Another example: Got a leaky pipe in your home? Call the plumber. He shows up two hours or two days after he promised he would, looks at it, gives you a presupuesto for labor only, and tells you what to buy at the ferreteria. You make the trip to the ferreteria for the parts (can't trust the plumber with $200 to buy it himself, or else he needs transporte because he came to do the job in a guagua). Call the plumber back to do the actual work, and again he shows up at some other time. When he's done with the job, it still leaks, but in a different place.

Another example I have faced since I went to MX. When i come back, I try to pay my bills ahead of time (basic telephone service so it works when I come back, my dominican credit card from the bank, maintaining a credit balance with AES so the lights still work when I get back -oh and yes, I turn off the circuit breakers and the meter is secure). After waiting in a line of customers for 20 or 30 minutes, watch the cajera struggle with dealing with someone who actually wants to pay "en adelante". 10 minutes later when they figure it out, check their work, and them have them correct it so you get the credit.

I'm not trying to start a bitch session here. It's just that being away after living here several years, and then going away, has crystallized the things I really don't enjoy about the DR. I still call it "home" for now, but I am not sure how I would react if I had to come back tomorrow and stay in Santo Domingo full-time.
 

FernieBee

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Feb 20, 2008
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The expense: my rent for a similar property here in Mexico is less than half of what it is in Santo Domingo. My electricity is 1/4 the cost (EVERYONE pays and it's ALWAYS working), gas is less than 1/2, groceries are less than 1/2, medical care is equal but with more knowledgeable doctors, plumbers and handymen are about 1/4 the cost (and they finish the job in MX), taxis are about 1/2.
That made it really easy for me to understand your points, at least how SD-DR compares to MX.