Having a baby in the DR!!

[JMB773]

OK...so, first I'd say that babies are not born "black and blue" from lack of oxygen. If someone says "black and blue", I'm assuming bruising?
Almost ALL babies are born some shade of blue, they begin to pink up once they start breathing but "black and blue"?

Anyway, I can't even begin to speculate without knowing the gestational age and exactly what happened during the birth. I'm first of all shocked as hell that there was a Dominican doctor who "allowed" her to birth vaginally. Even though it can be done, most Dominican doctors will forbid it for their patients. That's one of their "freak out" zones.....vaginal birth twins (even though we do it here all the time).


Also, an incubator does nothing for the babies breathing. The babies either needed to have a oxygen hood, nasal cannulas, or even C-Pap or be directly on a ventilator (which I doubt as the transfer most likely would have been forbidden). An incubator is more like a little "house" or closed off crib to keep the baby in to keep him warm, and away from the outside environment which carries lots of bacteria and germs. The incubators have heat controls but an incubator alone does not provide oxygen usually. You must have a C-Pap machine to supply C-Pap, you must have the hood, or tent to provide free flow oxygen, or you must have a nasal cannula in the baby's nose giving it oxygen. the incubator does not do that. Also, all NICU babies (or at least in the US) have a monitor on that alarms if the saturation of oxygen in the baby's blood is getting low....and the alarm sounds when this STARTS so the baby can be assisted.

I am Labor and Delivery, not NICU but I know the basics of sick babies. Also, I had a placental abruption at 36 weeks with Victor and he was on C-Pap for 36 hours and received blood, bili lights, etc...so I know a little bit about NICU routine. Victor stayed in NICU 6 days.

I feel so bad for this family. I could speculate all day on what happened but without knowing some pertinent information, it wouldn't be fair.
Because, at this time, I have no idea if it was something during the birth, the transfer, or the subsequent admission to the 2nd NICU that caused their deaths.

SHALENA

I showed post 1 and 8 to my daughter's mother and she told me nothing in either posts make any sense not one word. She also said maybe the OP was confused or the father did not fully understand what was being explained to him and he drew his own conclusion something that happens all the time in the hospital.

When she broke down what frank stated in post 1 and 8 coming from someone like yourself that understands hospital lingo it did not make a lot of sense.

 

[SKing]

I showed post 1 and 8 to my daughter's mother and she told me nothing in either posts make any sense not one word. She also said maybe the OP was confused or the father did not fully understand what was being explained to him and he drew his own conclusion something that happens all the time in the hospital.

When she broke down what frank stated in post 1 and 8 coming from someone like yourself that understands hospital lingo it did not make a lot of sense.

Exactly! Like I said, babies are not born "black and blue" from anything unless maybe if the doctor used forceps, and still it would only be slight bruising to the face, not the rest of the body. Also, like I stated, the incubators have nothing to do witht he oxygen that is given to a baby.

I thought also that maybe because of the language barrier....

Also, I'm trying very hard not to come to conclusions even about stuff in the news in DR. Remember the 2 dads last week who said 6 babies died in a NICU because the power had gone out? After reading every news report I could find on the matter, come to find out the dads actually rioted and caused a scene and then broke into the hospital morgue where they SAW 4 more dead babies and hence the number. Only 2 of the babies (theirs), died that day, the others died at different times but were still being held in the morgue for one reason or another and the fathers assumed that all had died that day.

But then again...who can't pay off a periodista to report what they want?
I don't know what to believe anymore.

SHALENA

P.S. Also, most news reports said 6 babies, but I found a couple that said 7, so they couldn't even agree on the number!

 

[HUG]

I agree. It is very difficult not to speculate and form our own conclusions here, because the truth is rarely disclosed cleanly and obviously, always something that just does not add up. Any news story here is like reading an under developed 11 year olds attempt on fantasy island. I can only imagine the confusion from hospital reports, 'boy dies from broken finger', 'man walks in with a stab wound and dies from a gunshot wound' etc.

 

[suarezn]

First off RIP to those babies. As a father it is a heartbreaking story and I couldn't even begin to imagine. Like Shalena I find it strange that the mother was allowed to give birth vaginally as I would say in The DR almost every woman nowadays gives birth with a c-section (overdone IMO), but specially for twins that is almost unheard of nowadays in The DR. This absolutely highlights the need for insurance in The DR, specially if you have a pregnant wife it is just a necessity.

 

[SKing]

Listen, I am not stupid enough to ever think that in my future Midwifery practice I won't have a dead baby. Even working we sometimes have fetal death. At times the mother comes in and the baby is dead, or something happens during the labor and birth (rare), or something happens as a consequence of the labor/birth. This happens, sometimes even when you do the best that you can.

These riots and such anger can change here, if certain things changed in the DR.

1.) Show compassion: Most women in the public hospital are treated badly. I have seen slapping, yelling, mocking....it's awful. Who wants to believe anything someone says when only a few hours ago they were telling you "You weren't screaming like that when you were making that baby! Shut up!"

2.) Make a personal connection: Most public hospital doctors see their patients very briefly in clinic, and the doctor that delivers them may not have ever seen them at all. Are you more likely to trust your own doctor you've been seeing for 9 months or some mean faced doctor who has to keep looking at a piece of paper to remember your name?
Even in the US, OBs are so worried about liability but the Midwives who let women labor without all of the "machines" and "gadgets" have a much less sue rate. Yes, babies die with Midwives sometimes but the litigation rate is SUBSTANTIALLY less and studies have found out that this is because of the "connection". The mother and father usually feel a personal connection and would feel like they were suing family.

3.) Education: Things are ever changing, especially in OB and Neonatology. And things that do not happen often ie: EMERGENCIES, should be practiced at least every 4-6 months. That way everyone is prepared on what to do and how to do it. Also, doctors in DR should be educating themselves continuously on the new practices and policies in other countries. Following studies of the other country's recommendations and protocols and making sure that DR's is up to par. Because if I am a mother who's baby is in trouble and everyone is running crazy, and screaming, and contradicting each other...if my baby dies, hell yeah I'm gonna think you did it. And if I go to the internet (like every person in the world can do) and find out that there was something standard that you should've done that you didn't, then yeah, I might have to have my husband riot/

If Dominican doctors had those three things: Compassion, Connection, and Continuing Education the riot and death threat rate would be much less....and you know what else would be much less? The maternal and infant mortality rate. Because if I'm your care provider and I've spent 10 months getting to know you and your family, your new baby's sex and name, his/her siblings, watching you grow throughout your pregnancy and watch you getting more and more excited....

I'll be DAMNED if you gonna up and die on me, and much less that baby!

SHALENA

My 2 pesos.

 

[dv8]

This absolutely highlights the need for insurance in The DR, specially if you have a pregnant wife it is just a necessity.

i worked once with a haitian guy who did not want insurance because "god was protecting him". changed his mind when his mother died suddenly of a heart attack, was only about 50. insurance is a must here. even a cheap, crappy one. to come here with an idea of having a kid sans insurance because "it's cheaper than back home", like some poster had, is pure idiocy. yes, normally all goes well, thousands of women give birth every day in DR, easy peasy. but sometimes the complications occur. and god, will you cry about it...

 

[frank recktenwald]

Shalena thanks for your insights.
When I mentioned about the suffocation this was based on the father's emotional comments. Apparently some of the staff was working on the babies after they were gasping for air therefore maybe the assumption of suffocating.
The bruises on the babies bodies were witnessed by yours truly. Half of their faces were black and blue with blood in their noses, bruises all over their tiny bodies. They looked like they were beaten up by Mike Tyson!!
These babies were treated bad, very bad!!!
I've seen a lot in my life but the image of these 2 poor babies kept me awake last night till the first sunlight this morning.

 

[SKing]

Shalena thanks for your insights.
When I mentioned about the suffocation this was based on the father's emotional comments. Apparently some of the staff was working on the babies after they were gasping for air therefore maybe the assumption of suffocating.
The bruises on the babies bodies were witnessed by yours truly. Half of their faces were black and blue with blood in their noses, bruises all over their tiny bodies. They looked like they were beaten up by Mike Tyson!!
These babies were treated bad, very bad!!!
I've seen a lot in my life but the image of these 2 poor babies kept me awake last night till the first sunlight this morning.

Frank,
Do you know anything about the birth? I just can't understand how they would've gotten bruises all over? Unless, did you see them after they had been passed a while? Maybe bruising from the CPR attempts?

And gasping for air? I'm wondering why they didn't just intubate them? A Neonatologist or Anesthesiologist should be able to intubate a baby 1-2-3.
Maybe they did not take all measures because of the money issue?

This is just strange because it seems like these babies died needlessly....RIP. So sad.

SHALENA

P.S. Is there going to be a investigation? What is the hospital claiming is the cause of death?

 

[frank recktenwald]

Frank,
Do you know anything about the birth? I just can't understand how they would've gotten bruises all over? Unless, did you see them after they had been passed a while? Maybe bruising from the CPR attempts?

And gasping for air? I'm wondering why they didn't just intubate them? A Neonatologist or Anesthesiologist should be able to intubate a baby 1-2-3.
Maybe they did not take all measures because of the money issue?

This is just strange because it seems like these babies died needlessly....RIP. So sad.

SHALENA

P.S. Is there going to be a investigation? What is the hospital claiming is the cause of death?

I saw them about 5hrs after they passed away. They had bruises on their arms and legs which to me doesn't like CPR.
What I know about the birth was that it was a difficult one, the mother had to push so hard that her vagina was pushed outwards according to the father who was present. He said that they have should performed a cesarean but they didn't.
Haven't spoken to the father today and I don't know whether he wants to pursue it any further because the only thing coming out of it would be "no fui yo".

 

[dv8]

the climate of DR makes decomposition really fast. bruises of the skin are the result of the blood being forced downwards with the gravity. even if the body is later moved the bruises indicating original position will remain in the same place. bodies also lose fluids through mouth and nose. this is why you will often see cotton inside nostrils of the deceased prepared for burial.

not to get into gross detail: dead body does not look good, ever.

 

[La Mariposa]

Going off the information that they suffocated the children. After Shalenas comment it doesn't look like that is the case and so maybe they could hold the bodies till payment was made. I know a lady who's child died at birth and they did hold the body till payment was made, I can understand that. But if the hospital is responsible for killing the babies, no way would or could they withhold. Then again, one thing for a 'wealthy' gringo, another for a vocal dominican. Best way to get anything done here is go to the press, the GA firm taught me that a few years ago.

You must prove that the hospital is responsible though.

The cases I've heard about (retaining the body) were involving dominicans not ''wealthy'' neither not so wealthy gringos