I couldn't resist posting this...ONLY in the DR

[Chris]

I struggle with the words for this in any language ... but I see laughing (El Tigre's laughing) as a 'despite of' laughing .. Not as a 'laughing at' whatsoever. I hesitate to put an example here as an example becomes an easy point of criticism.

For me, laughing at this, is laughing at the macabre in a recognition that the macabre may be inside of me. Kind of the moment one deeply realizes that all that is between you and the grief of another, is a few bucks. The 'oh f@ck, I don't believe it' kind of laughter. For those with sensibilities, the 'oh dear times 10' kind of laughter.

Anyway, all I really wanted to say is .. El Tigre, I understand why you find it funny! I could not care a hoot about the video.

 

[sollie]

Aww. C'mon Chris

Act two.

Scene one. Southern United States; deep in the hollows of Kentucky.

Paw: Where in tarnation iz Aunt Gerlie Mae?

Son: She done died Paw.

Paw: Shoot fire! You don't say.

Son: Shore 'nuff Paw. She done got took to yonder mortuary.

Paw: Hell fire son! Git on yore mule and git her now! I ain't got no 142 dollars to git her out.

Perspective. It still ain't funny.


Sollie

 

[Lambada]

I could not care a hoot about the video.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Chris. There are some that do & some that don't.

For me personally I get a similar reaction as when I see locals go to the regional Governmental meetings when the political dinerograbocracy roll up in their luxury jeepetas paid for by taxpayer money while the supplicants hold up their hand written signs on the backs of torn off cardboard boxes 'We want you to finish building our school' or 'Please finish our road in ..........wherever'.

It is the intense feeling that comes from seeing others being exploited; the feeling which motivates many to strive for a more equitable distribution of life chances here in the DR.

However much the deceased man might or might not have been a tiguere, the family were being exploited.

And I don't laugh at that. Or as sollie says:

Perspective. It still ain't funny. Sollie

I'm not judging anyone who finds it funny. I am in no position to judge. I am in a position to encourage individual reflection, self-awareness & sensitivity, however. And to promote perception which goes beyong the trivial.

 

[ExtremeR]

Bushbaby....
we are on the same wavelength. Some members have mentioned about humor and laughter at the funeral of loved ones be it families or friends. It releases tension from the painful loss, a normal reaction. The big difference here is that the deceased and family on the video are strangers and that changes the psychological dynamic of what our reaction should be. Knowing and interacting with a person while alive gives us a certain right to participate in a bit of humor when they pass on. An unknown carrying on at family or friends funeral I am sure will not be tolerated.

What is intolerable is some people who prefer to smuggle a deceased body out of the morgue and expose it to the public in the city like this ?family?did just to avoid the normal procedures. When we the spectators who are subjected to this kind of behavior, see this we don't get mad, we prefer to take it with humour amazed with the kind of things you have to see over here.

 

[Berzin]

What is intolerable is some people who prefer to smuggle a deceased body out of the morgue and expose it to the public in the city like this ?family?did just to avoid the normal procedures.

Normal procedures meaning having to pay extortion money for an autopsy that more than likely will never be performed and having the police split the money and laugh in their faces.:ermm::ermm::ermm:

 

[ExtremeR]

Normal procedures meaning having to pay extortion money for an autopsy that more than likely will never be performed and having the police split the money and laugh in their faces.:ermm::ermm::ermm:

Well 2 wrongs doesn?t make a right, that is comparable to people stealing electricity because they don?t get the full service even when they pay it.

It is a pity that a mafia is conformed to get money out of poor people, but the fact that they have to resort to violate procedures and opening up closed doors out of government buildings is just not acceptable, and let's not start with exposing a body to the open city like they did as if they were at their house.

 

[Berzin]

It is a pity that a mafia is conformed to get money out of poor people, but the fact that they have to resort to violate procedures and opening up closed doors out of government buildings is just not acceptable, and let's not start with exposing a body to the open city like they did as if they were at their house.

Two wrongs DO make a right if there is no other way to get things done. Thats' just how it is in the DR.

Your thought process can't be so rigid living in a country where law and order do not protect the weak and destitute of society in their time of need.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well 2 wrongs doesn?t make a right, that is comparable to people stealing electricity because they don?t get the full service even when they pay it.

The two situations are not comparable in the least. First of all, those who steal electricity (either from the power company or from their neighbors) do not pretend to have a pretext for doing so. They do it because they want to, and they think it is an easy way to make or save money.

The family and friends retrieved the body from people who were in effect ransoming a dead man for profit. They had no choice but to do what they did.

Those who steal electricity have many choices, and choose to steal, not as a last resort, but because it seems like an easy way out to them.

Be careful with using self-serving moral platitudes, such as, "two wrongs do not make a right", that don't hold water. They quickly become an easy way out of genuine critical thinking.

 

[Berzin]

Great comments so far, but please lets' not turn this into a morality debate.

No one can judge these people unless you live like them.

Morality takes a back seat when faced with having to cut through such a Gordian Knot as these people were confronted with, so lets' cut them some slack.

 

[dv8]

someone said the whole barrio will stand against the police if they try to retrieve the body, why does not "whole barrio" stand to make a collection for the official release of the body?

yes, the family is poor, yes, they have no money. but i still think decent people will go to any lengths to collect the money required and not steal the body in the dead of the night.

i am sure that in case i should die my family will take a loan in the bank if needed in order to bring my body home, they would never smuggle my ashed in a cocoa can.

interesting thing that government has to provide a coffin (even for someone stolen to be buried?). even more interesting is to know that burial itself is free. oh, the beauty of developing countries. in poland government pays about 2 thousand dollars towards the burial - which would buy most plain of coffins and a place in cemetery and not cover all additional costs... :tired: i am sure in USA it costs even more...

 

[Berzin]

someone said the whole barrio will stand against the police if they try to retrieve the body, why does not "whole barrio" stand to make a collection for the official release of the body?

Read the sentence in bold. The article quoted is from DR1-once you begin paying the mafiosos it will never end. So the family has my vote in terms of them doing the right thing.

"Free autopsies?
Health Deputy Minister and National Forensics Pathology director Sergio Sarita Valdez is asking the Attorney General's office to prohibit coroners to charge for autopsies, considering the families of the deceased rarely have the money to pay for the service. Sarita's comments are in response to a curious happening in La Vega over the weekend. Reports are that the family of a deceased man ran into the coroner's office, took the body and drove away on a motochoncho. The victim was 31-year old Francisco Manuel Brito Cornielle, who was shot and killed by police in a reported gunfight. The family said it did not have the money to pay for the autopsy. The authorities have yet to identify the motoconcho driver or the woman who held the body during the escape. A video of the scene has become an Internet and Latin American TV sensation. The Minister added that some families are so poor they can't afford the caskets to bury their loved ones.Sarita added that there is always a mafia of police, nurses and even doctors trying a to make a buck."

 

[ExtremeR]

Well 2 wrongs doesn?t make a right, that is comparable to people stealing electricity because they don?t get the full service even when they pay it.

The two situations are not comparable in the least. First of all, those who steal electricity (either from the power company or from their neighbors) do not pretend to have a pretext for doing so. They do it because they want to, and they think it is an easy way to make or save money.

The family and friends retrieved the body from people who were in effect ransoming a dead man for profit. They had no choice but to do what they did.

Those who steal electricity have many choices, and choose to steal, not as a last resort, but because it seems like an easy way out to them.

Be careful with using self-serving moral platitudes, such as, "two wrongs do not make a right", that don't hold water. They quickly become an easy way out of genuine critical thinking.

They did have a choice, first off from where it comes from that the 5,000 pesos was a bribe? last I heard the Procuradoria was charging for every autopsy done, I hope that change but right now the official way is to pay which that family who thinks they are entitled for everything for free did not agree and chose to brake the law forcing the door and taking the body irresponsibly instead of reuniting the money required to do it the right way.

 

[ExtremeR]

Two wrongs DO make a right if there is no other way to get things done. Thats' just how it is in the DR.

Your thought process can't be so rigid living in a country where law and order do not protect the weak and destitute of society in their time of need.

I was born, raised and currently live in the DR so I think I know very well how things are done in the DR and I am tired of seeing people alegating lack of money to do things the right way but drink beer and rum every weekend.

I don?t understand some expats that wants to see the DR more civilized and constantly criticize it yet they support this kind of ?bagabunderia?. Doble moral???

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Does this belong in the CLOWN BIN??? hahahahahahaha HOLLY CRAP!!!

We are straying from the defining statement of the op.

 

[Berzin]

I don?t understand some expats that wants to see the DR more civilized and constantly criticize it yet they support this kind of ?bagabunderia?. Doble moral???

Its' not a double moral standard. The situation is not so cut and dry when you have poor people scrounging for money to pay for a service when in reality all they are doing is fostering corruption.

"Sarita added that there is always a mafia of police, nurses and even doctors trying a to make a buck."

 

[Lambada]

We are straying from the defining statement of the op.

Indeed but is this discussion not more informative now? Speaking of which & of whether autopsies are free or not I found this interesting item in El Nacional
El Nacional, la voz de todos

Date of item was 25 July 2008 (which can be verified by going to cached version)
El Nacional, la voz de todos

so the issue was getting some mileage a month ago.

 

[Stodgord]

So what happens if family don't pay the money for the body? Does it become property of the hospital and can they use it for science?

 

[jalencastro]

true

So what happens if family don't pay the money for the body? Does it become property of the hospital and can they use it for science?

i wondered the same thing....i bet nothing happens and or they discard the body, either way this is an injustice for the family of the deceased....still whether this family had to pay or not, it is not right for them to force entry and take the body....crazy nobody wins in this situation.... :ermm:

 

[catcherintherye]

still whether this family had to pay or not, it is not right for them to force entry and take the body....

Well, I'm not sure how you can draw that conclusion. It certainly was against the law, but as you must know, the law is not always right.

It wasn't too long ago and not too far away, when it was the law that people could be shot for opposing the government. Does that make everyone who opposed the government wrong?

I am unsure about what recourse you would have the family take in this instance. In my opinion, they had no other choice but to do what they did.

For those who have been quick to pass moral judgement on these people, you should take the time to consider what you would in a similar situation. Perhaps you would do nothing, which is your choice, but if your beliefs were such that you could not let your son's body to held for ransom by those who killed him, then I would hope other people would be a little more forgiving of your actions than you are being now.

There are many situations that are outside the realm of abstract definitions of right and wrong. When the law is wrong it is right to oppose it.

 

[Lambada]

There is also another factor to consider - if a relative of mine was killed by police, yes I have the money to pay for an autopsy & I would, but I wouldn't necessarily believe the data unless I had my own independent pathologist present at the PM. I'm not suggesting the family were taking the body for an 'independent PM' or anything like that, but if it happened to a member of my family I might also require access to the body, just to keep the record straight.................