I shouldnt laugh at people trying to help but really....

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Black Dog

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Wow! I would think these people would be devastated to read how their efforts are being seen by those who live here! I'm sure that THEY believe they are doing some good and if their money/time could be put to a more effective use someone should help to point them in the right direction!
Mike, PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE AT THIS, but how would you feel if someone said that the GREAT help and start in life that you are giving your 14 year old, was in fact just about making you feel good about yourself? I think we may be being a bit harsh here guys. Just my feelings!
 

Chirimoya

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No, because they are actually doing more harm than good and maybe if they see this they will realise this and channel their good intentions more constructively.

As we've seen in other parts of the country as well, the money and effort spent by these well-meaning volunteers on a structure no one asked for and didn't take part in building could be spent so much more effectively on sending a group of young Dominicans on vocational courses, expanding their horizons and giving them skills that benefit themselves and their communities.

:D
 

Black Dog

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It's the "well meaning" that I wanted to focus on. Someone who really understands what is needed should be talking to the organisations to channel the work and money more effectively!
 

Chirimoya

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That's right Black Dog. Also, there is a big IF in most of these responses - IF there was consultation and community involvement most here will concede that these particular volunteers cited by the OP do not deserve to be criticised.

The criticism is aimed at a more general scenario where people are just parachuted in almost at random to implement a project (usually construction/repairs) that hasn't been identified by the community as a priority and doesn't involve them in the process - we know from experience that these sort of projects only perpetuate dependency, helplessness, disempowerment and poverty.

But the reason the other model persists is that it is easier to execute than the long arduous process of development, where tangible results take longer to manifest themselves. How do you quantify empowerment and skills acquisition as opposed to a nicely painted school or clinic?
 

dv8

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of course mikefisher should be happy about himself. and proud. he is giving back and he is doing it well.
 

cobraboy

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It's the "well meaning" that I wanted to focus on. Someone who really understands what is needed should be talking to the organisations to channel the work and money more effectively!
The organizations are better at telling locals what they need, than locals saying what help they could use.

They do a lot of talking and little listening.
 

Chip

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This topic has been discussed at length before, and maybe at first glance it appears the trips are just a narcissistic vacation and wasteful use of money better spent. However, from personal experience, many of these organizations (mostly Christian churches but not all) have a long lasting relationship with these communities and send funds as well as do on site projects. One shouldn't diminish the fact that these trips keep the volunteers "engaged" to the situation, as opposed to loosing interest as would be easy, as it seems "worlds away" to many.

I can also assure everyone here on DR1 that any structure built at no cost to the locals will not go to waste. If the local church doesn't take it there will be no short list of people willing to trade up from what they have to a well built block home with good plumbing and wiring.
 

Chip

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One of the more established care agencies here is run by the Catholic church called Caritas. They give out free food, meals and medecine to all in need, regardless of their religious affiliation.
 

mountainannie

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Chirimoya

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Not necessarily, it could mean donating to organisations that are doing genuine, non-assistentialist development work.
Unless you have a particular skill to share there is not much added value in volunteering, although as Chip points out there is some value in solidarity and the awareness it raises in the volunteers themselves who might return home with changed perceptions about poverty.
I know one or two organisations that bring over qualified, mature professionals over for long-term placements where they share skills with local people. However their effectiveness is not consistent for a variety of reasons, mainly organisational rather than the modus operandi itself, which works well if effectively managed.
 

Black Dog

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DV8, Mike should feel good for what he is doing and I have great admiration for it but I will GUARANTEE you that that is not why he does it and I just wanted to put my opinion that that's probably not the primary objective of the volunteers
 
B

BettyDiamond

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well my ruse worked at getting people to discuss the matter - charity and good deeds always bring out a vast difference in opinions

...and now a weather report sun with a chance of cloud lol
 

las2137

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This topic has been discussed at length before, and maybe at first glance it appears the trips are just a narcissistic vacation and wasteful use of money better spent. However, from personal experience, many of these organizations (mostly Christian churches but not all) have a long lasting relationship with these communities and send funds as well as do on site projects. One shouldn't diminish the fact that these trips keep the volunteers "engaged" to the situation, as opposed to loosing interest as would be easy, as it seems "worlds away" to many.

Well put, Chip. I just returned from a meeting with a group of American women associated with a Catholic diocese that has been supporting a community in Azua for over 30 years. They do fundraising year round for social projects in this community and request reports on how the projects have been implemented and maintained.

And yes, when they come down they spend a few days assisting the community in reconstruction projects. But to a casual observer they would seem to be doing it for them, not with them. With these projectss, there's a lot going on that we don't necessarily see.

(I won't even go into the fact that many of the repairs are for the eldery and disabled who are unable to do home repairs themselves... hard to get on a construction site when you're 80.)

Finally, what they kept saying over and over again was that they go home and do presentations in local universities and organizations to fundraise for the community. They take what they see and experience and report i back home.

All of this stresses the importance of investing- and I use that word on purpose- your donations or time in responsible organizations.
 

tflea

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Whatever

In the words of John Wesley (and I'm not a Wesleyan):

"Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. At all the times you can.
To all the people you can. As long as ever you can."

Stop already with the arm-chair psychiatric evaluations of people's motives and get off your own big, fat butts once in a while (if you haven't already). :bunny:

As long as I'm quoting here, this one I heard from Ted Turner:
"Lead, follow or get outta the way!"
 

Black Dog

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wise words! John Wesley lived in a village very close to me, though not at the same time obviously lol
 

minerva_feliz

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Really?

Well put, Chip. I just returned from a meeting with a group of American women associated with a Catholic diocese that has been supporting a community in Azua for over 30 years. They do fundraising year round for social projects in this community and request reports on how the projects have been implemented and maintained.

And yes, when they come down they spend a few days assisting the community in reconstruction projects. But to a casual observer they would seem to be doing it for them, not with them. With these projectss, there's a lot going on that we don't necessarily see.

(I won't even go into the fact that many of the repairs are for the eldery and disabled who are unable to do home repairs themselves... hard to get on a construction site when you're 80.)

Finally, what they kept saying over and over again was that they go home and do presentations in local universities and organizations to fundraise for the community. They take what they see and experience and report i back home.

All of this stresses the importance of investing- and I use that word on purpose- your donations or time in responsible organizations.


I base my evaluation of how much people are actually involved/connected with the community on the perception the Dominicans in the community have of what is going on. If someone went to that town, and said what kinds of projects are going on here, would they say 'some Americans give us stuff sometimes, build stuff, come and play with the kids'? Who knows if more than 5 people in the community can name the organization and explain what their actual mission is.

And "helping" over an extended period of time does not make them any more effective or credible. What if the goods just stopped coming in? The construction supplies? What would the community do? Would they be able to write up grants and projects themselves, fundraise and solicit funding, and execute the project? Or would they just stand there with their mouth open and hands held out, palm up?

As far as building for the elderly or disabled, they might not be able to do it but they do have a good supply of perfectly able kids and grandkids, friends and neighbors whose role it is to step in and do it for them. They would if they had to. But hey, they too would rather watch the white girls do it for them so they don't break a sweat.

At least there is a cultural exchange, like with the presentations at home, even if what the volunteers get is a misunderstanding of poverty and how to help people get out of it. I know they mean well and have good intentions, but there are better ways to achieve what they think they are doing. I say this because I was just like them, wanting to help, before I got a better orientation. Giving stuff/doing stuff for people is a development model that is long gone, now it's all about sustainability and with good reason. BTW, sustainable is not continue giving stuff over an extended period.

I haven't commented on what organizations I think are good on my thread because I want to hear what others say first.
 

El_Uruguayo

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Dec 7, 2006
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Yeah, sustainable development, capacity building and all that jazz. Depends on the work really, sometimes an outsider can help give a different perspective on things. And often some of the bigger not for profits, or charitable organizations, who have had a huge impact on thousands, were started by 1 person. And while I don't understand the concept of paying to come and volunteer to do menial work - there is a chance that person can continue to help in other ways, or get other people to help, so its really not a bad thing, even if it is a little self serving. You have to admit that that is at least better than the Scandanavian kids who go to Cabarete to "study" - wakeboarding, windsurfing, kite surfing, snorkling, as part of some university coarse. hehe
 

Lambada

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What I think it needs is separating out, organisationally, who benefits. If it is for the benefit of Dominican communities then of course they should be consulted, involved & active in the planning & execution of the project. Anything else is doomed to further people in dependency as said above.

If it is a placement abroad for foreign youngsters to open their eyes via a month's volunteering, then the benefits accrue to them. Thus it should be seen as an educational exercise for these youngsters and organised in conjunction with Dominican institutions of higher education e.g. Universities with social science/social work/social anthropology courses. Nothing wrong with that as long as everyone is clear that this is a placement for the youngsters and not a project for Dominicans.

Now if some of these youngsters decide to come back & immerse themselves in the community and work alongside reputable Dominican organisations, great! And some do this, as we know.

It isn't really about people's motives. It's about a) what the purpose is b) who is benefitting & c) what is effective long term.
 
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