Imigration and Depotation: What does the government really want?

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Why ? …so many reasons …but mainly…. it was their modus operandi …and they had to . Long story…. discussed already.
You mean finding the Dominican workers when it has been repeated ad neauseum in the media that "Dominicans don't like to work?" Where they found all these Dominicans? What they did in order to attract them?
 

MariaRubia

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I can't speak about any other town, but here in Sosua, the Haitian are picked up and for 10,000 pesos they are let go without going to jail or being brought anywhere. If they don't pay, they are brought to the border and then reenter and make their way back to Sosua. It's a merry-go-round and complete extortion by Policia Nacional and Cestur. The government is not serious about getting rid of them. It's a cash cow.

It's 15,000 in the capital but yes, definitely that's what's going on. They round up truckloads every night, take them to somewhere similar to hell and keep them there for a few days until they cough the 15,000 or else eventually they deport them. I'm pretty sure this is going on with high-level consent, it's on such a huge scale and so well-known.
 

MariaRubia

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There have been a few comments recently that we need more interesting threads, and I'd just like to give me thanks to the OP for opening this discussion. This is exactly the sort of discussion thread that we need in my opinion.
 
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JD Jones

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That may well be the case but you more than anyone are aware of the abysmal state of education in the DR and forgive my cynicism, but having an ignorant and uneducated population seems to be serving the DR government just fine.
What I have found with the majority of Dominicans is that even the highly educated ones are severely lacking in common sense.
 

JD Jones

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johne

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Every country has the right to protect its borders. Absolutely.
When I lived in the DR, I found the Haitians and the Haitian Dominicans to be lovely for the most part.
I think you're missing my point. The problem isn't unfettered immigration from Haiti como tal; the problem is the DR government letting this social problem fester without addressing its own problems. Poor Haitian construction workers are low-hanging fruit.
And as harmonious a picture as some posters paint, I have heard many, many horrible comments from Dominicans about Haitians, referencing everything from their skin tone to their bathroom habits.
Poor people being forced to share the few resources they have with even poorer people that they have little in common with culturally. So who's to blame? Not the desperate Haitians and not the working class Dominicans either.
The POWERLESS are not the issue here - the question is why those who have REAL POWER are not seeking solutions to this problem. And one has to ask oneself why.
No, again, I am not missing your point. I agree to the first two sentences of the above post. All of the rest is an agenda and opinion of a person that doesn't live here with boots on the ground. It's a common meme that circulates through out the liberal class in all countries and organizations that have an alternative agenda as well. Further more, your 2 cent opinion the "the real power (the government ) IS NOT SEEKING SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM.) And you have volumnes of facts to back up your statement.? ANY suggestions for those that live and work here?? All suggestions accepted. Perhaps you should open a separate tread entitled" What would you do to support the plight of the emerging Haitian & the poor of the DR?" I'm serious.
 
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nanita

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No, again, I am not missing your point. I agree to the first two sentences of the above post. All of the rest is an agenda and opinion of a person that doesn't live here with boots on the ground. It's a common meme that circulates through out the liberal class in all countries and organizations that have an alternative agenda as well. Further more, your 2 cent opinion the "the real power (the government ) IS NOT SEEKING SOLUTIONS TO THIS PROBLEM.) And you have volumnes of facts to back up your statement.? ANY suggestions for those that live and work here?? All suggestions accepted. Perhaps you should open a separate tread entitled" What would you do to support the plight of the emerging Haitian & the poor of the DR?" I'm serious.
You're right, it IS my opinion that the real power - the government - is not seeking solutions to this problem. It is absolutely 100% my opinion. I don't have an 'agenda', I have an OPINION based on my experiences living in this world.
YOUR opinion seems to be that the Dominican government is somehow trying to resolve this problem but that they are unable to do so, which is an opinion I don't agree with as recently, the Dominican government had no problem: imposing a curfew, bankrupting many of its vulnerable citizens by ordering their businesses closed, denying kids a couple of years of education and various other unpopular and heavy-handed measures.
So it seems to me that when the government decides to bring its power to bear, it does so.
 

johne

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You're right, it IS my opinion that the real power - the government - is not seeking solutions to this problem. It is absolutely 100% my opinion. I don't have an 'agenda', I have an OPINION based on my experiences living in this world.
YOUR opinion seems to be that the Dominican government is somehow trying to resolve this problem but that they are unable to do so, which is an opinion I don't agree with as recently, the Dominican government had no problem: imposing a curfew, bankrupting many of its vulnerable citizens by ordering their businesses closed, denying kids a couple of years of education and various other unpopular and heavy-handed measures.
So it seems to me that when the government decides to bring its power to bear, it does so.
Where did you read "my opinion is the DR gub is trying to resolve the problem and they are unable to do so?" Now, now, please state your opinion only even if worth 2 Cents. lol. Since I am not a citizen in the DR and do not have a vote my opinion is prolly worth only one cent.My response to the rest of your post is stated with-in the 4 corners of post #31.
 

CristoRey

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You're right, it IS my opinion that the real power - the government - is not seeking solutions to this problem. It is absolutely 100% my opinion. I don't have an 'agenda', I have an OPINION based on my experiences living in this world.
YOUR opinion seems to be that the Dominican government is somehow trying to resolve this problem but that they are unable to do so, which is an opinion I don't agree with as recently, the Dominican government had no problem: imposing a curfew, bankrupting many of its vulnerable citizens by ordering their businesses closed, denying kids a couple of years of education and various other unpopular and heavy-handed measures.
So it seems to me that when the government decides to bring its power to bear, it does so.
Those were all actions the big international players were in favor of. They are not in favor of deportations and the scumbag NGOs they fund to operate within the DR have made this perfectly clear on more than one occasion. Therein lies a big part of the problem in my opinion.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
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When I lived in the DR, I found the Haitians and the Haitian Dominicans to be lovely for the most part.
I think you're missing my point.
Just for the record, no one is implying most Haitians are bad people or even have bad will. I think everyone knows that they are not leaving a place going through its best time. All anyone has to do is watch the news, the situation in Haiti is shown every week and it isn’t pretty. It isn’t an issue of Haitian migration per se, since Haitian migration into the DR has been occurring since colonial times when the owners were Spain and France.

Unlike in those times, now it’s of proportion. Too many people at once.

This was published today of what happen near a Dominican town near Dajabón.


Quite frankly, too many people at once. If that was a once in a blue moon occurrence it would not be a big deal since it has been happening for centuries.

In colonial times it was the slaves of the French escaping from the plantations they were assigned to near the border to freedom in the Spanish side. For a long time, anyone that entered on their own and as slaves were free from the moment they first stepped on Spanish land. That meant they couldn’t be subjected into slavery in the Spanish land, they couldn’t be returned to their previous owners, and they became subjects of the King of Spain, which meant if in this case the French enter Spanish land and captured their former slaves and took them back to their side, it was a grievance against Spain that would result in a military action to get them back. Since this applied to the entire Spanish Empire, many slaves from English owned Georgia would escape to Spanish owned Florida for the same reason. In St Augustine the Spanish authorities created the Batallón de los Morenos within the Spanish army which was nothing more than the collection of these runaway slaves from Georgia.

Anyway, even then the flow of Haitians into the DR wasn’t as great as now and didn’t overwhelmed the Dominican society. To make matters worse, Haiti itself is as big as the DR population wise without considering Haitians already form a sizable percentage of the population of the DR. By any account, there are more Haitians than Dominicans on the island.

The problem isn't unfettered immigration from Haiti como tal…
Yes it is.

; the problem is the DR government letting this social problem fester without addressing its own problems.
No it isn’t.

mThe POWERLESS are not the issue here - the question is why those who have REAL POWER are not seeking solutions to this problem. And one has to ask oneself why.
Because reality isn’t like your conspiracy theory. Simply suggesting the Dominican government “isn’t seeking solutions to this problem” is a testament to that and those words can only come from someone that is clueless of what is being done. You seem to not want to accept the sheer size of the problem and that is precisely what it is about. Due to not accepting that leads you to believe in all the other things which are flawed, to say the least.
 

NanSanPedro

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Boca Chica
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Just for the record, no one is implying most Haitians are bad people or even have bad will. I think everyone knows that they are not leaving a place going through its best time. All anyone has to do is watch the news, the situation in Haiti is shown every week and it isn’t pretty. It isn’t an issue of Haitian migration per se, since Haitian migration into the DR has been occurring since colonial times when the owners were Spain and France.

Unlike in those times, now it’s of proportion. Too many people at once.

This was published today of what happen near a Dominican town near Dajabón.


Quite frankly, too many people at once. If that was a once in a blue moon occurrence it would not be a big deal since it has been happening for centuries.

In colonial times it was the slaves of the French escaping from the plantations they were assigned to near the border to freedom in the Spanish side. For a long time, anyone that entered on their own and as slaves were free from the moment they first stepped on Spanish land. That meant they couldn’t be subjected into slavery in the Spanish land, they couldn’t be returned to their previous owners, and they became subjects of the King of Spain, which meant if in this case the French enter Spanish land and captured their former slaves and took them back to their side, it was a grievance against Spain that would result in a military action to get them back. Since this applied to the entire Spanish Empire, many slaves from English owned Georgia would escape to Spanish owned Florida for the same reason. In St Augustine the Spanish authorities created the Batallón de los Morenos within the Spanish army which was nothing more than the collection of these runaway slaves from Georgia.

Anyway, even then the flow of Haitians into the DR wasn’t as great as now and didn’t overwhelmed the Dominican society. To make matters worse, Haiti itself is as big as the DR population wise without considering Haitians already form a sizable percentage of the population of the DR. By any account, there are more Haitians than Dominicans on the island.


Yes it is.


No it isn’t.


Because reality isn’t like your conspiracy theory. Simply suggesting the Dominican government “isn’t seeking solutions to this problem” is a testament to that and those words can only come from someone that is clueless of what is being done. You seem to not want to accept the sheer size of the problem and that is precisely what it is about. Due to not accepting that leads you to believe in all the other things which are flawed, to say the least.
NALS, I appreciate and truly enjoy all of your historical prospective but I do believe here that Nanita has some valid points. We know that it's a cash cow for the lower echelons of the police and migracion. Catch and extort, rinse and repeat. How can the govt not know that is going on and give implict approval for its continuation?
 
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aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
Jun 10, 2008
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Just for the record, no one is implying most Haitians are bad people or even have bad will. I think everyone knows that they are not leaving a place going through its best time. All anyone has to do is watch the news, the situation in Haiti is shown every week and it isn’t pretty. It isn’t an issue of Haitian migration per se, since Haitian migration into the DR has been occurring since colonial times when the owners were Spain and France.

Unlike in those times, now it’s of proportion. Too many people at once.

This was published today of what happen near a Dominican town near Dajabón.


Quite frankly, too many people at once. If that was a once in a blue moon occurrence it would not be a big deal since it has been happening for centuries.

In colonial times it was the slaves of the French escaping from the plantations they were assigned to near the border to freedom in the Spanish side. For a long time, anyone that entered on their own and as slaves were free from the moment they first stepped on Spanish land. That meant they couldn’t be subjected into slavery in the Spanish land, they couldn’t be returned to their previous owners, and they became subjects of the King of Spain, which meant if in this case the French enter Spanish land and captured their former slaves and took them back to their side, it was a grievance against Spain that would result in a military action to get them back. Since this applied to the entire Spanish Empire, many slaves from English owned Georgia would escape to Spanish owned Florida for the same reason. In St Augustine the Spanish authorities created the Batallón de los Morenos within the Spanish army which was nothing more than the collection of these runaway slaves from Georgia.

Anyway, even then the flow of Haitians into the DR wasn’t as great as now and didn’t overwhelmed the Dominican society. To make matters worse, Haiti itself is as big as the DR population wise without considering Haitians already form a sizable percentage of the population of the DR. By any account, there are more Haitians than Dominicans on the island.


Yes it is.


No it isn’t.


Because reality isn’t like your conspiracy theory. Simply suggesting the Dominican government “isn’t seeking solutions to this problem” is a testament to that and those words can only come from someone that is clueless of what is being done. You seem to not want to accept the sheer size of the problem and that is precisely what it is about. Due to not accepting that leads you to believe in all the other things which are flawed, to say the least.
Incredible video. You would think its central americans running into the US or africans into Europe but it’s Hatians fleeing into the DR.
 

aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
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NALS, I appreciate and truly enjoy all of your historical prospective but I do believe here that Nanita has some valid points. We know that it's a cash cow for the lower echelons of the police and migracion. Catch and extort, rinse and repeat. How can the govt not know that is going on and give implict approval for its continuation?
Incompetent or they don’t really care. I agree they must know. I don’t believe there is a plan behind it. There seldom is in the DR.
 

CristoRey

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Incredible video. You would think its central americans running into the US or africans into Europe but it’s Hatians fleeing into the DR.
They could easily be carrying drugs, firearms and diseases with them. It's nothing a couple of well-trained K9's couldn't take care of. Perhaps it's time they started patrolling the border with German shepards.
 
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aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
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They could easily be carrying drugs, firearms and diseases with them. It's nothing a couple of well-trained K9's couldn't take care of. Perhaps it's time they started patrolling the border with German shepards.
Why don’t they then ? That is what we are discussing ? Does the government have a plan