Imigration and Depotation: What does the government really want?

nanita

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Just for the record, no one is implying most Haitians are bad people or even have bad will. I think everyone knows that they are not leaving a place going through its best time. All anyone has to do is watch the news, the situation in Haiti is shown every week and it isn’t pretty. It isn’t an issue of Haitian migration per se, since Haitian migration into the DR has been occurring since colonial times when the owners were Spain and France.

Unlike in those times, now it’s of proportion. Too many people at once.

This was published today of what happen near a Dominican town near Dajabón.


Quite frankly, too many people at once. If that was a once in a blue moon occurrence it would not be a big deal since it has been happening for centuries.

In colonial times it was the slaves of the French escaping from the plantations they were assigned to near the border to freedom in the Spanish side. For a long time, anyone that entered on their own and as slaves were free from the moment they first stepped on Spanish land. That meant they couldn’t be subjected into slavery in the Spanish land, they couldn’t be returned to their previous owners, and they became subjects of the King of Spain, which meant if in this case the French enter Spanish land and captured their former slaves and took them back to their side, it was a grievance against Spain that would result in a military action to get them back. Since this applied to the entire Spanish Empire, many slaves from English owned Georgia would escape to Spanish owned Florida for the same reason. In St Augustine the Spanish authorities created the Batallón de los Morenos within the Spanish army which was nothing more than the collection of these runaway slaves from Georgia.

Anyway, even then the flow of Haitians into the DR wasn’t as great as now and didn’t overwhelmed the Dominican society. To make matters worse, Haiti itself is as big as the DR population wise without considering Haitians already form a sizable percentage of the population of the DR. By any account, there are more Haitians than Dominicans on the island.


Yes it is.


No it isn’t.


Because reality isn’t like your conspiracy theory. Simply suggesting the Dominican government “isn’t seeking solutions to this problem” is a testament to that and those words can only come from someone that is clueless of what is being done. You seem to not want to accept the sheer size of the problem and that is precisely what it is about. Due to not accepting that leads you to believe in all the other things which are flawed, to say the least.
Reducing my argument to a 'conspiracy theory' is intellectually lazy. If you're interested, research where the term originated.

The porosity of any border is largely a political issue, not a physical one.

See North Korea, for example.

Since I'm 'clueless about what is being done'.... what exactly IS being done by the Dominican government to deal with the problem?
 

johne

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Since I'm 'clueless about what is being done'.... what exactly IS being done by the Dominican government to deal with the problem?
President Luis has answered this question many times when asked by the leading organizations of the " WORLD. ". All reported here on DR1.
In summary he has said ---There is nothing more that the DR can do to help Haiti. He said the DR has done enough and other big mouth all talk countries should do more and do their share.

Why do YOU feel that's not enough? What do YOU feel the DR should do? I asked you earlier today...what are YOUR suggestions? Outline them so we can discuss.Fire away.
 

bob saunders

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Reducing my argument to a 'conspiracy theory' is intellectually lazy. If you're interested, research where the term originated.

The porosity of any border is largely a political issue, not a physical one.

See North Korea, for example.

Since I'm 'clueless about what is being done'.... what exactly IS being done by the Dominican government to deal with the problem?
The physical barrier built by the North Koreans. IT IS PRETTY EFFECTIVE AT STOPPING EITHER IN OR OUT TRAFFIC. http://store.michaelyamashita.com/m...fied-fence-along-the-demilitarized-zone-dmz-d
 

aarhus

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President Luis has answered this question many times when asked by the leading organizations of the " WORLD. ". All reported here on DR1.
In summary he has said ---There is nothing more that the DR can do to help Haiti. He said the DR has done enough and other big mouth all talk countries should do more and do their share.

Why do YOU feel that's not enough? What do YOU feel the DR should do? I asked you earlier today...what are YOUR suggestions? Outline them so we can discuss.Fire away.
Wasn’t it about what the government is doing about immigration? The DR helps Haiti a lot indirectly with health care and education. Not sure anybody is in this thread was suggesting the DR should help in Haiti.
 

johne

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Maybe something like that. And stop the corruption with Haitians paying 10,000 and 15,000 in SD apparently to avoid deportation. If that is true.
...."stop the corruption by the Haitians",,,??? Now, that's different.What should we call that theory? Spin the record the other way? Parsing101? The REAL story of Adam and Eve..who was the tempter? LOL at my own early morning jokes.

Seriously , what would YOU pay to save your life? One of my Haitian helpers saved $50 bills in his bible that he earned working for me. I don't know how many but I'm sure it was everything he had to go to Haiti and return with his GF.
 

aarhus

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...."stop the corruption by the Haitians",,,??? Now, that's different.What should we call that theory? Spin the record the other way? Parsing101? The REAL story of Adam and Eve..who was the tempter? LOL at my own early morning jokes.

Seriously , what would YOU pay to save your life? One of my Haitian helpers saved $50 bills in his bible that he earned working for me. I don't know how many but I'm sure it was everything he had to go to Haiti and return with his GF.
I didn’t mean the Haitians paying the 10,000-15,000. I meant the Dominicans receiving it. I though that was obvious. That practice if true has to stop. I am confused on where you stand on this.
 
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johne

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I didn’t mean the Haitians paying the 10,000-15,000. I meant the Dominicans receiving it. I though that was obvious. That practice if true has to stop. I am confused on where you stand on this.
Sorry, I read it incorrectly thinking that there are two people needed to dance. Don't be confused. It is I that is confused and questioning. All good.
 

aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
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Sorry, I read it incorrectly thinking that there are two people needed to dance. Don't be confused. It is I that is confused and questioning. All good.
Yeah I also sympathize with the Haitians paying the money. In this case the culprit is the ones receiving the money and making the deportation efforts ineffective to some extent.
 
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johne

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Yeah I also sympathize with the Haitians paying the money. In this case the culprit is the ones receiving the money and making the deportation efforts ineffective to some extent.
And that is part of my inquiry...what does the government REALLY want?. Do they want to "modify" deportations? Do they have/want an unspoken pact with the police? Do they have a hidden agenda ?
 

Father Guido

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Last week a Haitian that works with me took four days off and went to Haiti to pick up his girlfriend. They returned to live in the same community as before. Certainly far below any level of poverty that a dominican could live in. He is back to work and she is attempting to sell some products that he buys in the capital or buys from me. (She doesn't speak spanish which was a first for me.Never met a Haitian that didnt speak spanish). Life seems to be "kinds normal" now but very difficult as you can imagine.

We have 11 million people in the DR. We have 500,000 Haitians in the DR.My questions for discussion are:
1. Is this situation "we need them to do the work that others don't want" similar in many respects to Mexico and U.S.?
2. Are the "round-ups" an attempt to show the government is serious about deportations in spite of the fact it is quite easy for a Haitian to enter the DR?
3. And finally, the question that I ask "What does the government (of the DR) REALLY want?
1. they will work for less at any job
2. just for show
3. I really don't know, although my 'home' government just seems to want my hard earned money
 

drstock

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Incredible video. You would think its central americans running into the US or africans into Europe but it’s Hatians fleeing into the DR.
Well, it's basically the same thing. Desperate people doing whatever they can to get out of countries where there is no hope, to somewhere they perceive to be much better. Somewhere they can work to earn some money and feel safe.
 
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aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
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Well, it's basically the same thing. Desperate people doing whatever they can to get out of countries where there is no hope, to somewhere they perceive to be much better. Somewhere they can work to earn some money and feel safe.
That’s true. I guess I am just surprised it can be so attractive to come here and then you have Dominicans who desperately wants to leave here and I am surprised it’s not more. Or I can’t imagine how bad it is now in Haiti and Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela. I don’t want to go there now and find out either.
 

CristoRey

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johne

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Well, it's basically the same thing. Desperate people doing whatever they can to get out of countries where there is no hope, to somewhere they perceive to be much better. Somewhere they can work to earn some money and feel safe.
AND, eat. You forgot that's still a requirement along with air and water.
 

bachata

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Many Dominicans say there are over 4 million Haitians here.
Half million in the PC / Babaro areas...
I just watched a video today, inmigración officers running away from Haitians.

Haitian workers scared the hell out of police officers who pulled over two buses packed of illegal construction workers.

JJ
 

aarhus

Long live King Frederik X
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What about the government going after the people that hire and host illegal immigrants, do you think this may help?

Just a thought!

JJ
The topic is what is the government doing. They are not doing what you are suggesting. What does the government really want ?
 

CristoRey

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The topic is what is the government doing. They are not doing what you are suggesting. What does the government really want ?
If anyone really knew then there'd be no need for this thread nor the discussion now would there?
 
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