Is the Haitian Immigration roundup on again?

[Mariot]

Yeah right, that's why here in America we Puerto Ricans and Dominicans looks the same.

Hablamos, el mismo idioma, tenemos la mismas religiones, bailamos la misma musica y comemos la misma vaina!!!

JJ

whether or not this is true, puerto ricans do not consider dominicans hermanos or whatever. they look at them with disdain, especially at those living in p.r..
also, you are neither looking alike, nor talking the same. if i can spot the difference, puerto ricans sure as hell can too. and there is also a colour aspect involved, as puerto ricans consider dominicans to be darker looking.
so don't act as if there could be made no comparision between haitians migrating to the d.r., and dominicans migrating to p.r. and the us.

 

[MikeFisher]

yeah right, thats why puerto ricans are so fond of dominicans.

Yeah right, that's why here in America we Puerto Ricans and Dominicans looks the same.

Hablamos, el mismo idioma, tenemos la mismas religiones, bailamos la misma musica y comemos la misma vaina!!!

JJ

and both are the same Sympatic Kinda People.

I totally agree to lando's Posting on bottom of page#2,
the Immigration Problem with Hundreds of Thousands Illegal Haitians on Dominican Streets can in no way be compared to some Boat people crossing the Mona Passage here in front of My Door in a Yola towards Puerto Rico, and btw very most of the Ones who try never make it, very most get lost on the 81.5nmls between here and Mayaguez, they run out of Gas, they get caught by Dominican Authorities, they get caught by PR Authorities, they sink their Boats and a high %%% ends as a snack for the Sharks, that's no Kidding, it's fact, I recollect the ones floating in the Waters here on the East since 16 years, many we find in one piece and partly alive, by far not all.

as Fact the Illegal Immigrants in the large number they are, cause heavy problems in the DR. they do not get any good Job due their Alien Status, so they take away the simple street Vendor jobs and street Kittchen Jobs of poor Dominicans who try to manage a living for the Family that way, they live in a Sanitary Disaster without appropriate drinking water or Bathrooms, so they bring a superhigh risk of Colera in Today's Times, aside of a good number of other deceases not daily mentioned in the Worldpress, Colera is outside of Hait not the worst what is present in the Tropics. they Run Gangs, starting at Kid's Ages, so go figure what those Kiddies will do when coming closer to adults age.
in the Large Numbers they are, they are a problem for the Dominican Society, as seen in the Santiago Province lately, where Citizens complaint about the leak of Immigrational actions by the authorities and promised to solve that themselves if the Gubmint doesn't react.
and I understand their Fears and Problems, even that I do not plee for "take da Gun and clean your "Hood", that's why the Gubmint has to react.
they are fighting lately very hard against the corruption within the Authorities related to the Narcos, don't await that they can do right away and quickly the same with the Army, those simple Soldiers guarding the Haitian/DR Border are poor Folks often waiting months to get their low low low salary paid. to better thier situations will take much more Time, we can't have it all together.
but Hey,
People always wanna compare and explain how better otehr countries are.
so what about the Millions of undocumented Mexican Aliens in the USA?
are their Border Guards the same corrupt or how do they manage to cross in such numbers and find a place to stay, numbers that let the hundred thousands of Haitians here sound like a small unsignificant Family.

Haitians coming over to the DR the legal way been always welcome and have all the chances to get good Jobs or manage their own profitable Business here in the DR, and the DR Population is in no way chasing them down or such crap.

the Problem is the Large number of poor undocumented illegals floating the streets of some parts of the DR in a way that the Dominican Citizens in the same Barrios start to feel unsafe themselves there.

and that's where the Gubmint has to clean up.

Mike

 

[MikeFisher]

whether or not this is true, puerto ricans do not consider dominicans hermanos or whatever. they look at them with disdain, especially at those living in p.r..
also, you are neither looking alike, nor talking the same. if i can spot the difference, puerto ricans sure as hell can too. and there is also a colour aspect involved, as puerto ricans consider dominicans to be darker looking.
so don't act as if there could be made no comparision between haitians migrating to the d.r., and dominicans migrating to p.r. and the us.

that may be true for looking on poor Dominicans who made it in the Yola to work on soe kinda Ranch in Pr or such.
but mid class PR Citizens and mid class DR Citizens see themselves quiet equal alike, and both usually travel between both Islands anyways.
I observe such at each Fishing Tournament over here,
a PR Crew will applaud a successful Dominican Crew and Vice Versa for a Lead over any "Foreign Boat/Crew, specially american Boats, at any Time.
we share experience and Tackle/Equipment within the Crews of both Islands, Boatowners of both Islands always gather together, Dine at the same Table etc.
and btw a mid class businessman would not see any advantage of PR over DR, the opposite, the Paradise side is over here, not in PR.
PR may be sold to poor Campesinos as a Place paved with Gold, the educated Class has a very different understanding of both Islands and their possibilities. PR does not have much to offer, the DR does.

Mike

 

[aarhus]

Solving the problems of Haiti and illegal immigration is key for the DR. Either the DR goes down together with Haiti or the whole island prosper together. The problems of Haiti can not be isolated to the other part of the island. It is not the DRs responsibilty but there is now way of ingnoring it either.

 

[MikeFisher]

the DR sure does not Ignore the problems on the neighboured Soil,
the opposite,
take in count the Huge Help and Assistance the DR is giving to Hait, even not rich themselves on the needed Funds, specially after the Earthquake and also now during Colera.

the Problems of Haiti need to be solved in Haiti, with Aid from the International Community, sure including the DR, but sure not solely by the DR.
to allow Haitians to cross the Border illegaly by their own will would not solve anything over there, but it is obviously causing a bunch of Trouble over here.

Mike

 

[greydread]

I totally agree

Solving the problems of Haiti and illegal immigration is key for the DR. Either the DR goes down together with Haiti or the whole island prosper together. The problems of Haiti can not be isolated to the other part of the island. It is not the DRs responsibilty but there is now way of ingnoring it either.

There's a lot of profit potential in Human misery and there are plenty of people who are ruthless enough to capitalize on it. There are profiteers, carpetbaggers, gun runners, drug lords and swindlers everywhere in the World where people are hurting, starving, homeless and in despair.

There is also a normal tendency for hungry people to flock to where the food is and poor people to flock to where the money is. Hell, that's how Canada and the USA got built. It's only natural for Haitians to flood across the land border just as it is to try to get to Miami on whatever they can find that floats and it's just as natural for the potential recipient countries to attempt to protect their borders and defend against the resultant rise in crime and poverty which always follows.

The work of restructuring Haiti is slow and there are many, many tragic stories and more to come but the rebuilding of Haiti will need to be performed by Haitians and at the end of the day running away from the problems there does nothing to solve them. It's sad to see people are still living in leaky tents a year after the 'quake and it's just as sad to see Haiti's elite more concerned with bickering over what little power and money there is in that country than making the country liveable and workable for its people.

The Dominican Republic has been a good neighbor to Haiti and will no doubt continue to be but it has the sovereign right to secure its borders, returning illegal immigrants as there is a legal temporary worker status available to these immigrants if they follow the rule of law. Establishing and respecting the rule of law are the the first bricks required in Haiti's reconstructed foundation and they have to be the ones to lay it.

Everybody complains constantly of the corruption of poor countries' officials and the graft, profiteering and inhumanity resulting from it but if the society as a whole with all of its people accept the rule of law and actively participate in the process of developing and following those laws then the people who are charged with oversight and enforcement of the laws have no choice but to follow suit and do their jobs.

I don't think that the role of the US or any other non-Caribbean nation should be any greater than that of donor in this crisis. The nations of the Caribbean will need to become better organized and work together to solve the region's problems. A couple of decades ago the African Union wasn't much more than a social group and recently they've brokered deals to save Kenya, Sudan and hopefully soon the Ivory Coast and Congo from the brink of chaos, anarchy and disaster. That's the model I'd look to for the ultimate solution of Haiti's troubles and those of other troubled Caribbean nations.

 

[MikeFisher]

total agreement on that, Grey.
and somebody mentioned in a prior Posting that the Good or Bad for the Dominican Republic will go Good or Bad together with the Situation in Haiti.
that's only true for a very small Portion/Fraction.
sure every newly added misery will cost the DR money and resources, right.
but Haiti is in deepest Misery so long that I don't even remember when they ever been "Fine" anytime in the Past,
and that Misery over there did not stop the DR from prospering and developing.
Misery in Haiti is a minor 'slow down' factor for Dominican Development, but not a real Mayor factor for Progress in the DR.
the News papers would have stopped to report about Haiti on Daily bases only due the Quake a year ago,
why they have Haiti in the News is simply due Colera, something other Countries fear to catch from Haiti, something other Countries fear their Citizens could catch while vacationing in the Caribbeans largest Vacation paradise DR, that's the ONLY Reason Why they have it in the Press permanently.
if it would be only for a Quake a year ago, independend how many hundred thosuands are still living in Tents or on the streets without real drinking water or acceptable sanitary facilities, it would be mentioned maybe in a monthly reports as a Statistic in the Intl Press, no more.

Mike

 

[Taino808]

whether or not this is true, puerto ricans do not consider dominicans hermanos or whatever. they look at them with disdain, especially at those living in p.r..
also, you are neither looking alike, nor talking the same. if i can spot the difference, puerto ricans sure as hell can too. and there is also a colour aspect involved, as puerto ricans consider dominicans to be darker looking.
so don't act as if there could be made no comparision between haitians migrating to the d.r., and dominicans migrating to p.r. and the us.

The same could be said about Dominicans and Haitians. Although some expats will argue that they can?t distinguish a difference, and that we all look alike. WE Dominicans, however, can tell us apart from miles away. I suggest you take a look at the thread ?Dominican Jesse James? when I made the statement that ?that was another Haitian doing as he pleased in the DR? I was immediately asked how I knew he was Haitian. Trust me I knew that guy wasn?t a Dominican, and it wasn?t doe to his accent either.

Many Haitian proponants on dr1 will beg to differ as well, they will also claim that we are all one-in-the-same. However, they make this disputable argue in an attempt to eventually unify the island.:tired:

 

[Mariot]

The same could be said about Dominicans and Haitians. Although some expats will argue that they can?t distinguish a difference, and that we all look alike. WE Dominicans, however, can tell us apart from miles away. I suggest you take a look at the thread ?Dominican Jesse James? when I made the statement that ?that was another Haitian doing as he pleased in the DR? I was immediately asked how I knew he was Haitian. Trust me I knew that guy wasn?t a Dominican, and it wasn?t doe to his accent either.

Many Haitian proponants on dr1 will beg to differ as well, they will also claim that we are all one-in-the-same. However, they make this disputable argue in an attempt to eventually unify the island.:tired:

nonsense. neither have i ever read on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that a poster argued that dominicans and haitians are not distinguishable or one and the same, nor have i seen that somebody argued that the island should be unified.

 

[bob saunders]

nonsense. neither have i ever read on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that a poster argued that dominicans and haitians are not distinguishable or one and the same, nor have i seen that somebody argued that the island should be unified.

There have been numerous posters over the past few years that have suggested/argued that the DR and Haiti should be one country. Their have been many that have stated that Haitian and Dominicans have a common ancestry just different colonial masters....etc. Perhaps you are not as well read as you thought.

 

[NY-DR Commuter]

The Haitians are more corrupt than the border guards taking the bribes because the Haitians paying these guards should know by now that if caught they will be expatriated back to where they came from. Therefore, the Haitians are worse off for corrupting the Dominican guards, while trying to achieve their desired destination, the only thing they accomplish is lose their hard earned money.

Oh so its beyond your understanding that the poor Haitains corrupt the guards? If I recall correctly Its the Haitians walking over to the Dominican side and offering the guards money, not the guards walking into Haiti offering to be corrupted. BTW its hilarious how any time someone say anything thought to be against Haitians all you Haitian proponets immibeately are hurt by it.......Please.

A Dominican border guard is a military officer, it is his job to protect the border. By accepting bribes to allow Haitians to cross the border illegally, he is not only not doing his job, but he is breaking the law. Remember, he is a MILITARY OFFICER who has taken an oath to protect his country. And he is supposedly protecting this border EVERY DAY. He is a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL. This is his JOB that he does every day, so he is accepting bribes CONSTANTLY and letting illegal Haitians cross the border CONSTANTLY. The Haitian crossing the border is probably homeless, poorer, and less educated than the Dominican border guard you say he is corrupting. And more than likely he is not crossing the border daily, every day as his JOB. He is probably just trying to get away from the filth he was living in and live better here in the Dominican Republic. Do you really think that his one-time attempt to change his WHOLE LIFE by offering a bribe to a corrupt border guard is equal to the level of corruption of this military officer, who is sworn to protect his country and getting paid to due his military duty on the border? I will finish this post as eloquently as you have finished your post #18
........PLEASE.

 

[Taino808]

There have been numerous posters over the past few years that have suggested/argued that the DR and Haiti should be one country. Their have been many that have stated that Haitian and Dominicans have a common ancestry just different colonial masters....etc. Perhaps you are not as well read as you thought.

Thank you Bob for saving me a lot of writing.

 

[Ken]

nonsense. neither have i ever read on this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) that a poster argued that dominicans and haitians are not distinguishable or one and the same, nor have i seen that somebody argued that the island should be unified.

No, as Bob Saunders points out, there have been posters claiming the two nations should be unified. But they are not Dominicans and probably are not ex-pats living here.

A safe addition to Robert's predictions is that the DR and Haiti are not going to be unified in 2011.

 

[Taino808]

A Dominican border guard is a military officer, it is his job to protect the border. By accepting bribes to allow Haitians to cross the border illegally, he is not only not doing his job, but he is breaking the law. Remember, he is a MILITARY OFFICER who has taken an oath to protect his country. And he is supposedly protecting this border EVERY DAY. He is a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL. This is his JOB that he does every day, so he is accepting bribes CONSTANTLY and letting illegal Haitians cross the border CONSTANTLY. The Haitian crossing the border is probably homeless, poorer, and less educated than the Dominican border guard you say he is corrupting. And more than likely he is not crossing the border daily, every day as his JOB. He is probably just trying to get away from the filth he was living in and live better here in the Dominican Republic. Do you really think that his one-time attempt to change his WHOLE LIFE by offering a bribe to a corrupt border guard is equal to the level of corruption of this military officer, who is sworn to protect his country and getting paid to due his military duty on the border? I will finish this post as eloquently as you have finished your post #18
........PLEASE.

perhaps I should have used another choice of words. I will ask that you keep in mind that most of these border guards are ill payed. Sure they take an oath to protect and serve their country, however, this doesn?t take away from the fact that they/he still has to provide for his family. Not always having the every day supplies his family needs, makes him more inclined in taking bribs. Not say that I agree with this, just saying that the Haitians come across the RIO MASACRE, as poor as they themselves may be, to offer the border guards some ill obtained incentive.

 

[Africaida]

No hablas creole ??

No, as Bob Saunders points out, there have been posters claiming the two nations should be unified. But they are not Dominicans and probably are not ex-pats living here.

A safe addition to Robert's predictions is that the DR and Haiti are not going to be unified in 2011.

Do you mean to tell me that DR and Haiti are presently 2 distinct nations with different black people ??? Bwahahaha :cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky:

I know not funny, I couldn't resist

From a non-Dominican, nor expat

 

[bob saunders]

Do you mean to tell me that DR and Haiti are presently 2 distinct nations with different black people ??? Bwahahaha :cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky:

I know not funny, I couldn't resist

No, Haiti is a mainly black nation with a very small mixed race component. The DR is a mainly mixed race country with substantial white and black minorities. The other difference are too many to list, as you well know. So yes, two very distinct tribes.

 

[Africaida]

Bob, relax, that was a joke, albeit not funny

Even I, can tell the difference between a Dominican and Haitian, no need to be Dominican/married to one, nor to be an expat. Yes, I also know, it is 2 different countries on one island, impressed ?

Nevermind

Love it when a Canadian educate someone of African descent about race

 

[greydread]

perhaps I should have used another choice of words. I will ask that you keep in mind that most of these border guards are ill payed. Sure they take an oath to protect and serve their country, however, this doesn?t take away from the fact that they/he still has to provide for his family. Not always having the every day supplies his family needs, makes him more inclined in taking bribs. Not say that I agree with this, just saying that the Haitians come across the RIO MASACRE, as poor as they themselves may be, to offer the border guards some ill obtained incentive.

The more the Dominican people are affected by the crime and disease that follows this illegal immigration, the more integrity they'll demand from the border patrol officers. Low pay is no excuse. Most working folks in the whole country receive low pay. There are plenty who would gladly replace them and do the job right.

(p.s. I think that Bill Clinton's visa should be pulled. Left to it's own devices, Arkansas could qualify as a 3rd World country. He should go and help them. That's where he's from.)

 

[bob saunders]

Love it when a Canadian educate someone of African descent about race

Us Canucks live in a Multi-Cultural society. My boss is from Madagascar.

 

[Lando calrisian]

Mariot you are wrong, I visited in PR and the view of Dominicans as a nuissance is not general. Dominicans live in PR and do well and contribute inmmensly to the city their. Some PR maybe idiots and make dumb comments, but when I was their I openy identified myself as Dominican and nada. In the USA most of my novias were Boricuas and never, ever had a problem. So you sir, based on my experience are quite incorrect.