It's Worse Than I Thought!

[Eugeniefs]

Yes, Chris, there are so many who can't count without taking their shoes off, but there are also those who are trying so hard to do better, with or without an education. And let's face it, education is what we all need otherwise we wouldn't even be here on DR1, lol! You need to be able to read and type to do that.

What I find frustrating are those who want to learn but due to economic issues just can't keep going to school, they have to work to help the family - and that is because their parents haven't been educated that so many kids isn't always the right way to go about things. One or two kids who do well in life could be better than 8 or 14 who just scrape by to provide them with something in their retirement years (let alone something for their own kids).

I wonder what would happen if we could do a survey - give all the kids in one village the opportunity to go to school to high school grade, what would be the outcome... interesting... I wonder why no one tried that one (would have to be someone with a few millions sitting around doing nothing, lol!)

 

[bob saunders]

"The First Step In Solving A "Problemo", is to Recognize That You Have A "Problemo"!!!!!!!
I don't expect you to like any posts critical of the DR, after all, you are a "Dominican", and you can NEVER accept criticism of ANY kind!
If You Are Not Part Of The "Solucion", You Are Part Of The "Problemo"!!!
Next time you are on a "DR1 Vacation", mentor a grade school drop out!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

NOW, report this post to a moderator, As Usual!!!!!!!!
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



PS, be like Matilda, "Part Of The Solution" to "Problemos" here in the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well CC, you always tell me I've got blinkers on when it comes to Dominican problems. There are serious issues with the DR education system, and there are attempts to do something about them, however it'll take generations for it to happen. This time of year when many kids are home sick with a cold or the flu gives a good opportunity to see which parents care about their children's education. The ones that come to school and ask for homework so their kids don't fall behind is a good indicator.
We recently got a 16 year old girl, that is in Grade four ( grade 4!) in the public school and her mother is a teacher. She reads and writes quite well but her math skills were not even grade one equivalent. She has an obvious problem with sequencing, but her teachers either ignored her problem or didn't have a clue on what to do about it, along with her teacher mother. After one month of one on one she's showing great progress, especially with confidence. Hopefully by the time next school year rolls around she'll be caught up to at least grade five level.
There plenty of smart kids here , they just aren't taught even what the country's standard calls for. When I see the ability of the 13 and 14 year old students involved in the student municipal government sponsored by the Canadian government I'm impressed. Some of them have well though-out power point presentations, excellent public speaking skills, and the ability to think on the fly. I'm optimistic, as always.

 

[keepcoming]

It is rather scary that some of these so-called high school graduates read, write and spell still at a basic elementary school level. Many households I see here, school/education is not a top priority for whatever reason, economics..etc. Some of the process starts at home with encouragement and focus on getting a education, not just going to school for the sake of going. Parents/family need to show interest in what their child/children are learning, even at a minimum. I know when my son was going to school the more interest we showed in his schoolwork the more excited he was to learn more. I know all families do not have the same circumstances. It would be nice to see more "mentors" for kids that may have more challenging circumstances, homelife, economics, etc..

 

[La Rubia]

Threads like these are why I take extended vacations from DR1, they eventually turn into a bunch of people taking cheap shots on dominicans.

It's obvious we have a long way to go in improving our education for our youth and the fact that it's being acknowledged is a step forward in itself. I get so ****ed off when I see a 14-15 year old just sitting around all day because he doesn't want to go to school anymore. If I had that liberty when I was that age I would probably be a lazy POS now and I thank God I didn't. I used to think the phenomenon of ditching school early was a campo/poor mentality but I've realized it's a problem in many dominicans that live in big cities also. I live in a middle class neighborhood and there's a bunch of neighborhood high school aged kids just sitting around on street corners most days and it's embarassing. I go out of my way to comment on how that mentality guarantees a ****ty future but I don't think it gets through to them very well.

If the high school graduation rate is about 75% I would say that's pretty good. By comparison in The US the high school graduation rate fluctuates by state from a high of 88% for Iowa to a low of 59% for The District of Columbia. In general most states fall around the mid 70's range just like The DR. High School Graduation Rates by State

There will always be a percentage of the population for whom the typical education track is just not an appeal. This is why you should have alternatives like trade schools, etc...which actually The DR does have some.

I'm not as concerned with the high school graduation rate as I am with the quality of those graduating. I can tell you just by looking at my nephews that most are relatively functional illiterates, including some who are attending college. For instance they cannot spell worth a damn even though Spanish is one of the easiest languages to spell as, unlike English, it's spelled the same way it always sounds.

IMO if The DR wants to get to next level (This applies to The US somewhat as well) major emphasis MUST be put on early childhood education. A child who starts with a very good foundation will not need a lot handholding later on. This is found consistently in those countries considered the most educated in the world.

The increase of the education budget (The 4%) went mostly to paying teachers a higher salary sometimes a 100% increase. While I don't disagree that teachers were being very underpaid, raising their salaries does not do a lot to advance education. I would have liked to see some of that money spent in further education for those teachers especially those in early education. If it was my choice I would encourage every teacher to get a master degree in education (Paid for by the state) and of course that should come with a raise. You can't teach well if you are not well prepared yourself.

It won't take just one thing to solve the situation, but I believe that going to school all day would help. I would always ask why fulanito wasn't in school, but they assured me that he was in the tanda de la tarde. But there doesn't seem to be any way to know. It needs to be easier to see truancy, and having them go all day would help that. Once they are there all day, of course everyone needs to step it up in terms of what they are getting while they are there.

For those children that have to help at home, they should be given a card that certifies them as 1/2 day or something. They could at least learn the 3R's, while the other kids get a more enriched curriculum.

As I'm not in a position to change policy, I apply the "each one reach one" philosophy. I know I wouldn't have been able to study without help, and I try to make that happen for others. There are lots of young people out there with ganas, and sometimes they just need someone that can help them see it's possible.

 

[greydread]

My Father dropped out of school in the 8th grade during the great depression. He later tested and obtained a GED. He was the most intelligent human being that I've ever known. He had a career as a fireman, then went on to the Federal Reserve and then Corning. He retired at 57 and moved to Mexico where he lived in a little castle surrounded by a 10' high stone wall and big iron gates at the entrance. Inside was a pool, servant quarters, guest quarters and luscious yards with pomegranate, lime, grapefruit, plantain trees and a loufah plant. He lived in comfort, good health and good spirits until he was 83.

His life long hobbies included photography, carpentry and chess. from the age of 7 I played chess with him every night on a folding chess table that he had built with drawers and capture bands which held the pieces. He built an two additions to our house and much of the furniture in it. He taught himself to read, write and speak Portuguese, Russian and Spanish in preparation for travels to where those languages were spoken. He was fluent in every one of them. Our house always had a darkroom. He kept the Ladies enchanted by playing the guitar while singing love songs or reciting poetry from memory. He was still charming the Ladies as an octogenarian, still playing chess and rediscovering the world via internet.

I said all that to say this, formal education, while an asset is not all that there is to life and as assets go a keen intellect and indomitable spirit is preferable over a degree. There is hope for anyone who applies themselves to prosper in this life if that is what they choose. We are all only limited by what we are not willing to try and you can go into life with everything going against you and fare better than many who go in with everything going for them. It's a matter of will. At least that's the lesson which I took and so far it's working out pretty well.

 

[DOC1727]

I must be talking to different young people in the DR because, almost every young person I meet tell me they want to go to the University and get a degree however, not all can afford it.

 

[keepcoming]

Greydread that is a prefect of example of how parents play a big role and influence in a childs life. Learning by example can be at times a great teacher.

 

[dv8]

i think this discussion has little relevance. i gave poland as an example before: due to political circumstances and the two wars there were massive numbers of illiterate adults, it look 3 years of intense alphabetization program and several years of improving general education to bring the illiteracy level to about 1.2%. 3 generations since the war some 17.5% of adult polaks have university degrees. DR needs time. lots of time, maybe 50 years to bring a positive change in the educational level of the general population, providing the government will continue investing in the education.

 

[AlterEgo]

The worst part is that if you try to push back at all, especially if you make them look bad, they just declare it off topic and delete the thread.

If you make *who* look bad? And who is "they"???

Off Topic doesn't mean it's deleted - it means it's moved to the Off Topic Forum, which members cannot see until they accrue 500 posts. You have a long ways to go.

 

[greydread]

Greydread that is a prefect of example of how parents play a big role and influence in a childs life. Learning by example can be at times a great teacher.

The most important thing that I learned from my Parents was how to be one. Kids don't come with instructions. I knew how to read when I got to kindergarten, so did my Kids except I tried to make it more fun for them. I travelled the World in books in our home library before I travelled the world in real life. It's true that few of the places I travelled to were anything like those books portrayed, at least I had a place to start.

I don't think the transformation of the D.R. needs to take a generation. We live in a world which is connected by the internet and just about everyone I see in the D.R. has access to some internet connected device. Just about every small and large bit of human knowledge is collected there and free to all. If I had a resource like that when I was growing up I'm afraid to think of the possibilities.

 

[keepcoming]

So true Greydread, think of the possibilities back then when we were going to school if we had the technology they have today. So much is out there and many have access to it, no matter what economic level they are.

 

[greydread]

So true Greydread, think of the possibilities back then when we were going to school if we had the technology they have today. So much is out there and many have access to it, no matter what economic level they are.

Information is the greatest equalizing force in life.

 

[sosuamatt]

This is getting serious. I know some men who cannot count to 21 unless they are naked.

 

[dv8]

So true Greydread, think of the possibilities back then when we were going to school if we had the technology they have today. So much is out there and many have access to it, no matter what economic level they are.

not according to this article: S?lo el 14% de la poblaci?n dominicana tiene acceso a internet - DiarioLibre.com

in any case, it's not about the access to the information. it's about the ability to process and absorb this information. students constantly plagiarize wiki articles because they cannot adopt the info received, understand it and pass it on. at the uni we were taught to explain in our own words what we have learnt. very few can do it now. at best they can regurgitate whatever they memorized. we had students like that too who would learn entire pages by heart but were unable to describe what the text was all about.

 

[dv8]

This is getting serious. I know some men who cannot count to 21 unless they are naked.

and some only to twenty and a half at best.

 

[malko]

Sobrina of mine attends university, training to be a teacher (geography classes).
She is like 25 years old and still has not got a diploma. Her courses are only on saturdays (!!!) and optional 2 hours on monday mornings......
She just might graduate at 30........
Anyway, one could think she could get a job to finance her studies and live, no??
Not possible she (and all the rest of her family ) says...... When I explained that I went to university 5 days a week, 8 am to 6 pm, and worked 2 nights and weekends in restaurants to earn a living, guess what the answer is.... fuera es differente!!!

Yeah right......So we stopped paying her university fees (which are not a lot, around 2000 pesos for a trimester or semester ).
Instead we employ her 3/4 months a year. 2 months to help my wife around the house, 2 months when we are both abroad, just to feed the dogs once a day...... 8000 pesos/month (I think ).
In 2 years she has managed to miss out in at least 2 semesters because she couldnt pay!!!!!!
Clothes, blackberries and perfumes seem to be more important than education.......

Now she gets nada (even though she is a nice person ) and I remind her from time to time that u reap what u sow!!!

 

[bonao99]

social mobility, and economic mobility, are very limited phenomena here , because of the severe levels of class segregation in the DR. i have noticed that there are places here that locals do not enter, because they appear to have this notion that they do not belong there. i went to a rather upper crusty boarding school in my youth, but it also had a very fair share of kids from the poorest of households. good luck trying to find Belkis from Los Alcarrizo at Carol Morgan. the riquito kids would complain to daddy that they do not wish to sit beside the hoi polloi in the same classroom.

This is very true. A friend of mine had his daughter at this particular school and had all kinds of
problems. after the second year His daughter failed
English. This girl was born in the US and English was her only strong subject. I asking how come she failed, He said that
because they discriminate against Her cause She did not had a known/Elite last name.

 

[bob saunders]

Sobrina of mine attends university, training to be a teacher (geography classes).
She is like 25 years old and still has not got a diploma. Her courses are only on saturdays (!!!) and optional 2 hours on monday mornings......
She just might graduate at 30........
Anyway, one could think she could get a job to finance her studies and live, no??
Not possible she (and all the rest of her family ) says...... When I explained that I went to university 5 days a week, 8 am to 6 pm, and worked 2 nights and weekends in restaurants to earn a living, guess what the answer is.... fuera es differente!!!

Yeah right......So we stopped paying her university fees (which are not a lot, around 2000 pesos for a trimester or semester ).
Instead we employ her 3/4 months a year. 2 months to help my wife around the house, 2 months when we are both abroad, just to feed the dogs once a day...... 8000 pesos/month (I think ).
In 2 years she has managed to miss out in at least 2 semesters because she couldnt pay!!!!!!
Clothes, blackberries and perfumes seem to be more important than education.......

Now she gets nada (even though she is a nice person ) and I remind her from time to time that u reap what u sow!!!

Then there is our secretary. Goes to class Monday to Saturday while working from 730 -530 five days a week. She does the books , talks to clients, tutors children, and a multitude of other things. She is more mature at 19 than most people are at 30.we were approached by a relative of my wife's that told us how poor this girl was but how hard working and intelligent she was. She hasn't disappointed. She will have her business degree a year early as well.

 

[Mr_DR]

75% Still is better than in some other Areas

In today's "Diario Libre" it says that the DR only has 75% of it's students finish the 8th. grade!
I would like to know how many finish high school????
No wonder no one can count to 20 without taking their shoes off!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

That is because in the DR, unlike in the US, the students are given a pass or fail Final at the end of the semester and that is the only thing that will determine if you fail or not. In the US students are placed in grades based on age or given a D and passed to the next grade just on attendance alone. I have seen people in the US that even ask themselves how they were able to get their high school diplomas. Also, all the accommodations that are given in the US to challenged students are non-existent in the DR. That is why you read places like Chicago where more than 78% of the 8th graders can't even read proficiently enough. Still, 75% completion is a much better number than Texas 96-98 where the 8th grade completion wasn't even 20% of all students.

U.S. Department of Education: 79% of Chicago 8th Graders Not Proficient in Reading | CNS News
http://www.houstonendowment.org/Assets/PublicWebsite/Documents/News/measureofsuccess.pdf

 

[granca]

I am somewhat surprised that nowhere in this thread has there been any mention of the basic reason why education is not progressing as it should and that is the money the parents don't have. I have seen no sign of Medina's 4% being spent on the base impediments. The insistence on school uniforms and children having to supply their own books even when the parents are desperately poor. We have a very near neighbour whose 7 year old gets to school, if she's lucky, a couple of afternoons a week where happily they don't insist on uniforms, frequently she doesn't get to school because she hasn’t even got a pencil. Yes we are trying to help in an unobtrusive way, she comes round ostensibly to play with our daughter of a similar age. We supply her with pencils and a Dominican calligraphy book and she asks if we can do some letters with her, she's learning and can now write legibly the first two letters of her name. She enjoys the stories read to her and our daughter which is increasing her vocabulary. That her family cannot afford anything much, she frequently eats with us as she has had either nothing or only a bowl of rice with no extra protein at home.