NALs and PICHARDO, say it ain't so!

[Barnabe]

People can believe what they want based on what they want to believe, but for those that look for the evidence, its simply not there.

True, no further evidence has been displayed of money laundering activity in DR has been shown.

The prosecutor expressed an opinion.

Now, if I understand your point of view: a high ranking Justice Officer of this country express concerns in an international AML conference about the effects of money laundering. We should believe that this is just an "opinion with no evidence"?

Sorry, you're talking pure BS, and I admit that's just a personal opinion with no evidence.

Other people stating opinions without evidence:

"In spite of having the largest economy in the Caribbean, the Dominican Republic (DR) is not a major regional financial center. The DR continues to be a major transit point for the transshipment of illicit narcotics destined for the United States and Europe. The existence of six international airports, six major seaports, and a poorly controlled frontier with Haiti present the authorities with serious challenges. The existence of corruption within the government and the private sector, an organized crime presence (primarily illicit trafficking in narcotics and persons), a fragile economy and a large informal economy make the DR vulnerable to money laundering and terrorist financing threats. The major sources of laundered proceeds stem from illicit trafficking activities, tax evasion and fraudulent financial activity, particularly transactions with forged credit cards.
The DR is a major bulk cash smuggling hub. The smuggling of bulk cash by couriers and the use of wire transfer remittances are the primary methods for moving illicit funds from the United States into the DR. Once in the DR, currency exchange houses, money remittance companies, real estate and construction companies, and casinos are commonly used to facilitate the laundering of illicit funds. The lack of a single recognized financial intelligence unit exacerbates the problem, and the proposed creation of an offshore financial center may worsen the DR‟s vulnerability to money laundering.
There is a significant market for illicit or smuggled goods in the Dominican Republic; the funding sources are unclear, as is the destination of the proceeds. Authorities say the under-invoicing of imports and exports by Dominican Republic businessmen is still a relatively common practice. The primary goal for businessmen who engage in such activity is reportedly to avoid taxes and customs fees. Customs fraud and invoice manipulation are also found in regional value transfer schemes."

This is in the International Narcotics Control Strategy Report 2011 from the US State Department.

Was the Torre Atiemar case just an "accident" or just an example of common practice? There is no evidence (yet?).

Anybody when some common sense would say that when there is smoke, there might be some fire.

More specifically, in AML practice, at least in Europe, officers do not have to wait for evidence, if there is a reasonable doubt about the source of money.

Of course, he who wants to be blind doesn't see.

Barnab?

 

[Robert]

Robert, did you read the speech by the NDP?

Then, from there we can debate all the issues behind this thread...

Only bits and pieces.

Right now in Singapore for a month, so a little out the loop.

That said...

I know architects/builders that talk about duffle bags full of money. I have had the "what cartel owns what building tour", plus sat down with Mr. Torre Atiemar, although I had no idea he was big time drug dealer

We have seen various people speak on this from the US State Dept, local Government etc, yet it's still just smoke and mirrors and it has no substance, I don't think so!

 

[PICHARDO]

Only bits and pieces.

Right now in Singapore for a month, so a little out the loop.

That said...

I know architects/builders that talk about duffle bags full of money. I have had the "what cartel owns what building tour", plus sat down with Mr. Torre Atiemar, although I had no idea he was big time drug dealer

We have seen various people speak on this from the US State Dept, local Government etc, yet it's still just smoke and mirrors and it has no substance, I don't think so!

Read her speech fully, not the media opinions after her words, when you have time and it will be more than a pleasure to debate about it here with you!

I know pretty much which projects and businesses in Santiago come from illicit or questionable sources, but they don't even come close to being 5% of what's built or ongoing out there in Santiago alone!

Atiemar is still an ongoing legal process in Spain, where the illicit money originated, not the DR where it supposedly got invested. Remember that in this specific case the money was already laundered in Spain's financial system, not the DR.

But please read her speech fully and then we can butt heads on this at large!

 

[Randall Bell]

Good Morning Pichardo,


With respect, that sounds like a 'cop out'. He's on vacation for a month in Singapore. If there's something relevant about her speech, why don't you present it so we can hear?

And if there's something wrong with the translation, please educate us! For I read it and it sounded translated correctly?

thanks!

 

[Barnabe]

Read her speech fully, not the media opinions after her words, when you have time and it will be more than a pleasure to debate about it here with you!

A link to the extensive speech would be welcome.

I know pretty much which projects and businesses in Santiago come from illicit or questionable sources, but they don't even come close to being 5% of what's built or ongoing out there in Santiago alone!

If the launderers are well-identified, how comes there is no action?

Atiemar is still an ongoing legal process in Spain, where the illicit money originated, not the DR

The drug was shipped from DR, wasn't it?

where it supposedly got invested.

supposedly..??

Remember that in this specific case the money was already laundered in Spain's financial system, not the DR.

Yes, the money arrived clean and odorless, sure..

Pichardo, this is pure nonsense.

Barnab?

 

[NALs]

True, no further evidence has been displayed of money laundering activity in DR has been shown.

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.

Of course, he who wants to be blind doesn't see.

Indeed. Usually people misrepresent and feign ignorance on what other people say in the hopes of confusing the readers.

That's a little dumb, if you ask me, since there's no need for that. My posts clearly state what I'm talking about and everyone can see and comprehend the issue being discussed; you probably being the exception.

Its one thing to say there's no evidence of money laundering, its another to say that there's no evidence that the economy is sustained by money laundering.

Guess of what I'm talking about and what you want for me to talk about?

Indeed, he who wants to be blind, I'm not going to say doesn't see it, rather feigns a bad reading comprehension.

Sorry, you're talking pure BS...

You wish, which explains why you're not even addressing what I actually said. Hmm, there's BS here, but not from me.

 

[Criss Colon]

"Doctors","PreachARDO",and "Nals",Should be Sued For "Mal Practica"!!!

At least,like two kids caught with their "Hands In The Cookie Jar",they remain true to the"Dominican Custom",of lying in the face of "A Perpondrance of the Evidence".
"Boys,your faces are covered with "chocolate",and your clothes are full of "cookie crumbs'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep up your "Smoke Screen",but you two are the ONLY ones being confused buy it!!!!!
"Remember,"If it LOOKS like a "PATO",WALKS like a "Pato",and and Quacks like a "Pato",IT's A PATO!!!!
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[JMB773]

I just have one simple question, how will it ever be STOPPED? These are VERY dangerous people that would do anything to protect their profits, even if they have to turn cities into graveyards. This people can BUY anybody and they usually do.

Lets say one of you owned a newspaper and you were set on bringing down these types of activities drugs and money laundering how long do you think you eyes will continue to open if you challenge this people.

Highrises, malls, fancy cars all bought with dirty money, but what is the solution? If there is not one at the present then the Dominican Republic have NO CHOICE, but to allow them to proceed with their business transactions.

 

[Taino808]

The DR is a major bulk cash smuggling hub. The smuggling of bulk cash by couriers and the use of wire transfer remittances are the primary methods for moving illicit funds from the United States into the DR.

At best this is pure US propaganda.

As transfer laws stand, right now it's practically impossible to transfer more than two thousand dollars at a time from the US to DR in one single transfer. If you try to transfer any more cash, you would need to submit to a DNA test, rectal exam and god knows what else.

Two weeks ago I began to remodel (read enlarge the "marquecina") to a house I sold to a lady way back in 2004. Note, this lady bought this house as her retirement home but currently lives in New Jersey.

After contacted me for the remodeling of said house, we began the preliminary work to determine the cost for such work. I then proceeded to explain the procees and what the cost of such work would be. Total cost of said remodeling was RD$365,000.00, or at current exchange rate, a little less than $10,000.00 dollars.

As soon as the house owner returned to the states, she began to wire transfer the cash to me, this process took some seven (7) transfer to seven different people.!

Now my question: How does anyone get over on the laws to transfer large quantities of cash to then launder it here in DR, as stated in the quote above? If large quantities of cash is being transferred from the State to the Island, I'd like to know how is being done?

 

[Barnabe]

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.

Its one thing to say there's no evidence of money laundering, its another to say that there's no evidence that the economy is sustained by money laundering.

Guess of what I'm talking about and what you want for me to talk about?

Indeed, he who wants to be blind, I'm not going to say doesn't see it, rather feigns a bad reading comprehension.

You wish, which explains why you're not even addressing what I actually said. Hmm, there's BS here, but not from me.

Point taken, you're talking (if I understand clearly this time) of the non existence of evidence that he DR economy is sustained by money laundering.

Again, I agree there is no evidence, and further, I would say that, being impossible to give figures for AML activities, there can be no evidence, which is very comfortable for your point of view.

Again, you wrote that "People can believe what they want based on what they want to believe, but for those that look for the evidence, its simply not there.".

Call this Prosecutor a dumb ass if you want (that's what you're doing, but with soft words). I believe that if this person in this occasion made that statement, she must have some arguments to sustain her opinion.

I have no evidence the towers were attacked, mind you, but..

Barnab?

 

[Criss Colon]

I have a "Friend" who ownes seveal casinos.
Life is good in the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If a guy here can get 68 duplicate "cedulas" here in a few years time,and the government sees nothing "suspitious" about that,how many "Remisas" can you send without being "suspitious?"
"Laws" are made to keep "Honest People Honest",not to make"Dishonest" people "Honest".
And here,nobody is "Honest"!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Dios Mio",the woman who made the statements is a Federal Prosecutor here in Santo Domingo,brought down from Santiago because she is considered a "Smart Cookie",not just some "Political Hack"!! (Not To Mention she is a "FOX"!!!)
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[cobraboy]

I chuckle when folks say "there is no evidence of money laundering."

Well, DUH!

That is the PURPOSE of laundering money: no evidence it happened!

sheesh

 

[Chirimoya]

Now my question: How does anyone get over on the laws to transfer large quantities of cash to then launder it here in DR, as stated in the quote above? If large quantities of cash is being transferred from the State to the Island, I'd like to know how is being done?

The bank took 3 months (45 d?as laborables) to clear my US$250 cheque, but I haven't got friends in high places.
Primer Picazo Torre Atiemar 27 10 05 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[the gorgon]

But how do you trace it as part of the formal economy and still keep it hidden enough from prosecution, in your above statement?


That there's money laundering in the DR is a given, just like elsewhere in the known world.

To imply that it's the actual motor of growth and implicate the same as parental to the economy is baseless.

Her speech was manipulated out of context in regards to the DR, and it's sadly part of our lacking journalism experience to sort facts as they are presented in the DR media by large.

At worst I would estimate money laundering to have a good 2 to 3% share of our GDP from all sources.

That's a sizable piece of the pie, but much less impacting when broken down by industry and economic sector.

It has become very hard to hide money laundering operations in the DR, to the point where the country is being used only as a bridge to transport the same money to other markets to commit in laundering operations of major scale.

as i mentioned to you before, PICHARDO, i am a very pesky guy, who likes numbers, and methodology. you assert that, AT WORST, laundered money accounts for ony about 2 to 3 percentage points of GDP. that is roughly 1.2 billion. tell us how you arrive at those numbers. i need to hear this. what sector of GDP would you consider it to affect most significantly, and why?

 

[Criss Colon]

In The "Good-Ol'-Days" when I cashed my checks at the "Casa de Cambio", I was told to make the check out to "Cash",whoever HE is???
When I got back the check,it had always made quite a long "journey",usually starting out in Florida,then passing through several more states before arriving at my bank in Boston a week or more later.A few years ago the policy changed.Now,I make the check out in my name.It clears Boston in only one or two days.Since we no longer get our "Hard Check" back,but just a copy of the front,I can't tell where it goes any longer.I did cash checks for 80,000,and 60,000 USD back then,and never heard anything,from anybody.
What a country!
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[Taino808]

I have a "Friend" who ownes seveal casinos.
Life is good in the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

Which "friend" is this? The only guy owning several casinos in the country is Edmond Ellia, I'm more than certain your not part of his inner circle.

If a guy here can get 68 duplicate "cedulas" here in a few years time,and the government sees nothing "suspicious" about that,how many "Remisas" can you send without being "suspitious?"

I highly doubt anyone could get their hands on that many c?dulas. Nevertheless, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, now let's do the math: $2,000 dollar transfer x 68 = $136,000 dollars, surely not enough to build a house, much less a high rise? Now keep in mind that the person (in the US) sending the cash to our nefarious friend here in DR, would also need as many ID cards.

"Laws" are made to keep "Honest People Honest",not to make"Dishonest" people "Honest".
And here,nobody is "Honest"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Speak for your self, I'm extremely honest!

"Dios Mio",the woman who made the statements is a Federal Prosecutor here in Santo Domingo,brought down from Santiago because she is considered a "Smart Cookie",not just some "Political Hack"!! (Not To Mention she is a "FOX"!!!)
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She's been taken out of context, as is the case, when it fits your argument to demonize us.

 

[Taino808]

The bank took 3 months (45 d?as laborables) to clear my US$250 cheque, but I haven't got friends in high places.
Primer Picazo Torre Atiemar 27 10 05 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Three months is 90 days, not 45 working days, regardless, what does this have to do with what I posted? I am questioning money transfer, and the limits allowed by US laws.

 

[Taino808]

In The "Good-Ol'-Days" when I cashed my checks at the "Casa de Cambio", I was told to make the check out to "Cash",whoever HE is???
When I got back the check,it had always made quite a long "journey",usually starting out in Florida,then passing through several more states before arriving at my bank in Boston a week or more later.A few years ago the policy changed.Now,I make the check out in my name.It clears Boston in only one or two days.Since we no longer get our "Hard Check" back,but just a copy of the front,I can't tell where it goes any longer.I did cash checks for 80,000,and 60,000 USD back then,and never heard anything,from anybody.
What a country!
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At least you were honest enough to say in the "Good-Ol-days" try cashing that amount now-a-days

 

[Criss Colon]

The "Cedula" story is in all the newspapers here.
Her speech was printed as she gave it.
I don't know the guy you mentioned.
And,you must be a VERY LONELY honest Dominican!
The mere fact that you claim to be "PROVES" that you are NOT!!!!!!
I think it was the American Thomas Payne who said;"Show Me An Honest Man"
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I have absolutly no need to "Demonize" any Dominican,you all do a great job all by yourselves!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[Chip]

I know plenty of honest Dominicans.

What I having a problem meeting here in the DR though are honest/decent expats.