Needless Dominican Deaths

[Keith R]

I heard of a metro, but you know how that was taken care of by the media...

And, Keith, next time a massive sand storm blows off the African coast heading our way, track it. You will notice the difference.

And, yes, ok, Mexico City was not the best example, but perhaps our American friends can show us the way. Let's use Los Angeles as an example?

Or perhaps northeastern American cities in the middle of July?

Or maybe, just maybe Atlanta in August?

Nope. Still comparing apples and oranges, Nals, and I suspect you know it. As much as I love SD, I cannot put its socioeconomic and environmental profile an a par with Atlanta, NYC, or Boston. And comparing it to LA, the city with the worst air quality in the US, is a no-go, as I am sure you knew the moment you suggested it.

And I know all about the Saharan sand clouds, Nals. Probably heard of it before you did. And have seen the tracks. That does not change their minor contribution to poor air quality in Santo Domingo or anywhere in the DR, much as you may like to put it on a par with vehicle pollution or other man-made sources in the DR. Yes, I know, it'd be easier if we could blame it on Saharan sand, then Leonel could throw up his hands and say there's nothing he could do about it. But if it's vehicle emissions, planta emissions, industrial emissions, uncontrolled open-air burning, etc., he might have to act instead of ignoring the problem, and we can't have that, now can we?

 

[Keith R]

I heard of a metro, but you know how that was taken care of by the media...

The metro proposal was killed by the weight of its own insanity. The proposal did not make sense on many levels (economic, environmental, public policy, energy) to most anyone outside of those whose pockets were going to be lined by the project (and I include its principal proponents in this government and the Congress), and the PLD partisans who cannot stand to admit when their leaders have a loco idea.

I believe Leonel was more on the right track in his first Administration when he tried to clean up and make organized, reliable, cheap and sensible the public transport system and to change traffic flow patterns in the major cities. Granted, Hippo destroyed much of this good work, but that does not mean it was not worth rebuilding and building upon, rather than the slower, expensive, and energy-intensive metro idea...

 

[Chirimoya]

There are countless medical studies with no environmentalist axe to grind that demonstrate that asthma rates have risen dramatically over the last couple of generations, and that one of the main factors, if not the main factor, is air pollution. Here is just one.

Anecdotally, when I was growing up, in the seventies, I knew just one child with asthma. These days it is much more common.

 

[NALs]

Nope. Still comparing apples and oranges, Nals, and I suspect you know it. As much as I love SD, I cannot put its socioeconomic and environmental profile an a par with Atlanta, NYC, or Boston. And comparing it to LA, the city with the worst air quality in the US, is a no-go, as I am sure you knew the moment you suggested it.

And I know all about the Saharan sand clouds, Nals. Probably heard of it before you did. And have seen the tracks. That does not change their minor contribution to poor air quality in Santo Domingo or anywhere in the DR, much as you may like to put it on a par with vehicle pollution or other man-made sources in the DR. Yes, I know, it'd be easier if we could blame it on Saharan sand, then Leonel could throw up his hands and say there's nothing he could do about it. But if it's vehicle emissions, planta emissions, industrial emissions, uncontrolled open-air burning, etc., he might have to act instead of ignoring the problem, and we can't have that, now can we?

The dust in this country is atrocious, you can see it lined along the road, its in the houses (which adds to the constant cleaning demands), it causes people to cough alot, etc.

Even in south Florida, the dust storms that blow off Africa, affects that region as well.

This is not to say that it's the only aspect of the pollution, because its not, but it is an aspect that was not being addressed in this thread until I brought it up.

As usual, there is always someone who likes to initiate a debate with me. All I was doing was balancing the thread, take another look so you can see it.

Never did I implied Leonel should not tackle this problem, in fact, I never even mentioned the government and it's attention towards this problem.

Not to mention that I did not DENIED the other more constant flow of pollution, but that does not makes the dust a welcomed addition.

The dust is clearl for everyone to see.

http://www.forester.net/ec_0109_some.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBT/is_5_59/ai_105370152

http://www.environmentaldefense.org/cleanairforlife.cfm?subnav=aiyc_50cities

http://www.citymayors.com/environment/polluted_uscities.html

http://www.cep.unep.org/who/amep.php#what

-NAL

 

[NALs]

The metro proposal was killed by the weight of its own insanity. The proposal did not make sense on many levels (economic, environmental, public policy, energy) to most anyone outside of those whose pockets were going to be lined by the project (and I include its principal proponents in this government and the Congress), and the PLD partisans who cannot stand to admit when their leaders have a loco idea.

I believe Leonel was more on the right track in his first Administration when he tried to clean up and make organized, reliable, cheap and sensible the public transport system and to change traffic flow patterns in the major cities. Granted, Hippo destroyed much of this good work, but that does not mean it was not worth rebuilding and building upon, rather than the slower, expensive, and energy-intensive metro idea...

You asked if the government was tackling this problem, and the metro idea (as sensical or nonsensical it might have been) surely would have been attempt.

Whether it was a good idea or not, it's beyond the scope of this thread and beyond your question that I answered.

-NAL

 

[bienamor]

Well if it was just dust?

The dust in this country is atrocious, you can see it lined along the road, its in the houses (which adds to the constant cleaning demands), it causes people to cough alot, etc.

Even in south Florida, the dust storms that blow off Africa, affects that region as well.

This is not to say that it's the only aspect of the pollution, because its not, but it is an aspect that was not being addressed in this thread until I brought it up.

If dust was a major contributior, I would not expect to see that much in my apt. in Santodomingo, colonial zone. but there is a heavy BLACK covering that gets on almost everything. Don't think this is dust, but unburned oil etc. Even the screens on my windows, need cleaned once a wk, or you get black on your fingers, let alone the ceiling fans.

Lived in Florida, and never had anything like this!!

 

[HOWMAR]

It's amazing how those dust stroms from Africa pick which country to pollute. They jump over pristine, unpolluted islands such as St. John, St. Lucia or Barbados to deposit the pollution on the DR. Yet, have no more pollution to deposit when the winds reach Grand Caymen. Go figure...

 

[Keith R]

You asked if the government was tackling this problem, and the metro idea (as sensical or nonsensical it might have been) surely would have been attempt.

Oh, my mistake! If you define "doing something" as proposing nonsensical projects, then in that sense, yes, the current Administration has attempted something regarding air pollution. My definition of "doing something" is a bit more demanding, however.

Whether it was a good idea or not, it's beyond the scope of this thread and beyond your question that I answered.

-NAL

Funny, you lecturing the Forum's moderator on what is and what is not "beyond the scope of this thread." I must have missed the memo from Dolores & Robert leaving you in charge...

 

[NALs]

It's amazing how those dust stroms from Africa pick which country to pollute. They jump over pristine, unpolluted islands such as St. John, St. Lucia or Barbados to deposit the pollution on the DR. Yet, have no more pollution to deposit when the winds reach Grand Caymen. Go figure...

Of course, compare to the tiny specs of land...

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Dust/

 

[HOWMAR]

Of course, compare to the tiny specs of land...

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Dust/

My lungs inspire the same amount of air no matter how large the island I am standing on....

 

[NALs]

Oh, my mistake! If you define "doing something" as proposing nonsensical projects, then in that sense, yes, the current Administration has attempted something regarding air pollution. My definition of "doing something" is a bit more demanding, however.


Funny, you lecturing the Forum's moderator on what is and what is not "beyond the scope of this thread." I must have missed the memo from Dolores & Robert leaving you in charge...

Keith,

Did you not see the words WOULD HAVE, COULD HAVE, MIGHT HAVE BEEN, etc.

Do you know what those words means?

Hint: could have been so, if it was implemented, but since it was not....

And about your second response, deny that its not beyond the scope of this thread. Go right ahead.... apparently you feel the need to post something anti-nal's posts so go right ahead, nobody is stopping you...

-NAL

 

[NALs]

My lungs inspire the same amount of air no matter how large the island I am standing on....

But the winds blow much more constantly over small flat islands than rugged moutainous islands where the mountains block the winds and shifts wind patterns on a local level.

Ever wonder why its dustier in the Cibao than along the north coast?

Ever wonder why it rains more in Puerto Plata than in Santiago?

Ever wonder why its windier in Puerto Plata than in Santiago?

Hint: Cordillera Septentrional is part of the reason.

Have not noticed the difference, take a trip and notice.

Why is San Juan province drier and warmer than Santiago province?

Hint: Cordillera Central has something to do with it.

Stop comparing small flat islands to this country, its totally uncomparable.

When was the last time you saw a forest or abundant rain falling on flat Caribbean nations? When?

Exactly, most of the rain, all of the forests, and the most arable land are on mountanous islands. Thus, mountainous and flat islands are not comparable!

-NAL

 

[Keith R]

The dust in this country is atrocious, you can see it lined along the road, its in the houses (which adds to the constant cleaning demands), it causes people to cough alot, etc.

Even in south Florida, the dust storms that blow off Africa, affects that region as well.

This is not to say that it's the only aspect of the pollution, because its not, but it is an aspect that was not being addressed in this thread until I brought it up.

As usual, there is always someone who likes to initiate a debate with me. All I was doing was balancing the thread, take another look so you can see it.

Never did I implied Leonel should not tackle this problem, in fact, I never even mentioned the government and it's attention towards this problem.

Not to mention that I did not DENIED the other more constant flow of pollution, but that does not makes the dust a welcomed addition.

The dust is clearl for everyone to see.

Yes, to your credit, in the past you have also questioned the wisdom of the metro idea, and in your prior post in this thread you acknowledged some of the vehicle emissions. And true, dust contributes -- although, in point of fact, you originally said SAND, not dust.

The thing is, Nals, whenever someone brings up an issue that the government is dodging, you jump in and offer excuses and/or other reasons for the problem identified. Of course you did not mention the governments and its (in)attention to the problem -- because you'd rather talk about something else. Just like when people on DR1 raise corruption, overbloated government payrolls, etc., you talk about debt loads or just about anything but what the government can do to address such problems. All in the name of what you, Nals, deem to be "balance" and "truth."

 

[Larry]

All in the name of what you, Nals, deem to be "balance" and "truth."

Be prepeared for a very looooooong, drawn out, boring response. By the time you finish reading it, you will forget what the topic was.

I am going to take a "power nap" to conserve some energy to read it.

Larry

 

[Keith R]

And about your second response, deny that its not beyond the scope of this thread. Go right ahead.... apparently you feel the need to post something anti-nal's posts so go right ahead, nobody is stopping you...

-NAL

And how, pray tell us, is it beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how the problem identified by the original poster is or not being addressed? You're not making sense, Nals.

 

[NALs]

Yes, to your credit, in the past you have also questioned the wisdom of the metro idea, and in your prior post in this thread you acknowedged some of the vehicle emissions. And true, dust contributes -- although, in point of fact, you originally said SAND, not dust.

The thing is, Nals, whenever someone brings up an issue that the government is dodging, you jump in and offer excuses and/or other reasons for the problem identified. Of course you did not mention the governments and its (in)attention to the problem -- because you'd rather talk about something else. Just like when people on DR1 raise corruption, overbloated government payrolls, etc., you talk about debt loads or just about anything but what the government can do to address such problems. All in the name of what you, Nals, deem to be "balance" and "truth."

In the name of the reader.

I have often complained of the often onesided approach that tends to prevail on threads in this board.

Since people here are bent on one side, I will make it my duty to present the other side.

A balance view of the world is much better than a one sided one.

People here simply don't like it when I show the other side of the coin, but tough!

-NAL

 

[HOWMAR]

But the winds blow much more constantly over small flat islands than rugged moutainous islands where the mountains block the winds and shifts wind patterns on a local level.

Ever wonder why its dustier in the Cibao than along the north coast?

Ever wonder why it rains more in Puerto Plata than in Santiago?

Ever wonder why its windier in Puerto Plata than in Santiago?

Hint: Cordillera Septentrional is part of the reason.

Have not noticed the difference, take a trip and notice.

Why is San Juan province drier and warmer than Santiago province?

Hint: Cordillera Central has something to do with it.

Stop comparing small flat islands to this country, its totally uncomparable.

When was the last time you saw a forest or abundant rain falling on flat Caribbean nations? When?

Exactly, most of the rain, all of the forests, and the most arable land are on mountanous islands. Thus, mountainous and flat islands are not comparable!

-NAL

You have progressed from making little sense to making no sense at all. Oh, by the the way, that mountain I had to drive over to go from one side of St. John to the other is a killer.

 

[NALs]

And how, pray tell us, is it beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how the problem identified by the original poster is or not being addressed? You're not making sense, Nals.

You were gearing the discussion towards whether the metro was a good/bad decision and this thread is not about the metro!

Regardless if you are the moderator of this thread, that still does not changes the fact that this thread is not about the metro!

You wanted an answer to what Leonel would have been doing towards the issue of pollution, the metro certainly would have given people another mode of transportation as oppose to smoke belching cars and buses. I also made note of the negative view that was received with and that was that.

Anything else about the metro is not in accordance with the purpose and title of this thread, regardless of who the moderator is.

-NAL

 

[NALs]

You have progressed from making little sense to making no sense at all. Oh, by the the way, that mountain I had to drive over to go from one side of St. John to the other is a killer.

Oh yeah, it must be in the 3,000 meters range, right?!

Give it a rest...:surprised

Pick up a book about earth's geology, the occurence of specific types of climates, and how wind patterns, mountainous terrain, and small coral flat islands develop their microclimates.

Certainly would help in clarifying what I am saying.

It's obvious that I often overestimate what people know in terms of common knowledge.

-NAL

For anyone not noticing, the thread is going off course.

 

[Keith R]

You were gearing the discussion towards whether the metro was a good/bad decision and this thread is not about the metro!

Regardless if you are the moderator of this thread, that still does not changes the fact that this thread is not about the metro!

You wanted an answer to what Leonel would have been doing towards the issue of pollution, the metro certainly would have given people another mode of transportation as oppose to smoke belching cars and buses. I also made note of the negative view that was received with and that was that.

Anything else about the metro is not in accordance with the purpose and title of this thread, regardless of who the moderator is.

-NAL

Nals,
Wordsmith all you want, but you suggested the metro was a policy response to the air pollution problem. I am responding, in the name of your much cherished "balance," that the metro was not a serious response to the air pollution problem -- in fact, I have my doubts that air pollution figured stongly and seriously in the proposal's development at all. I suggested -- re-read my prior posts -- that there were other motivations, not pollution abatement, in play.

And no matter what you post, Nals, this is in line with the thread's subject matter, no matter who or what you really are.

Keith