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NEW: TRUJILLO GOOD or BAD 4 DR?
Funny and true!
And I also wonder whatever happened to his 4 other kids, the ones that he had with his favorite lovers, Lina, Elsa and Norma, among others.
Sometimes I wonder whatever happened to his 3 wives, Aminta, Bienvenida and his last wife, Maria, with whom he had 5 kids.capodominicano said:I guess his nickname should have been "El Conejo" but it could have been bad for his public image.
:bunny: :bunny: :bunny:
Capo
And I also wonder whatever happened to his 4 other kids, the ones that he had with his favorite lovers, Lina, Elsa and Norma, among others.
The answers to many of your questions on Trujillo's family are located on this thread.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthreads.php?t=25971
I can't get the link to work. It is a thread simply titled "Trujillo". You can search my posts for it. I mention what happened with Lina Lovaton and Octavia Ricart, etc.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthreads.php?t=25971
I can't get the link to work. It is a thread simply titled "Trujillo". You can search my posts for it. I mention what happened with Lina Lovaton and Octavia Ricart, etc.
Yes , thank you Anna.
Miguel,if you start at the beginning of the thread many posters share information about the other members of Trujillo's family.
Miguel,if you start at the beginning of the thread many posters share information about the other members of Trujillo's family.
Indeed!
It seems that many do not know about all his lovers and the kids that he had with them.
I am also a true believer that, "I was told he did this" or "I was told he did that" stories, they lose their "definitions" in "translation". Then it becomes fictional or hear-say. I rather stick to the things that are fact, like the Mirabal sister's masacre.
Actually, everything what is said on both threads, I know from reading over 10 books about Trujillo(still reading one) and by "stories" told to me by my father and some "oldtimers".joel pacheco said:
It seems that many do not know about all his lovers and the kids that he had with them.
I am also a true believer that, "I was told he did this" or "I was told he did that" stories, they lose their "definitions" in "translation". Then it becomes fictional or hear-say. I rather stick to the things that are fact, like the Mirabal sister's masacre.
Knocked off a rival
Trujillo knocked off many of his threats and also many of his rivals. This assassination happened in the early 30s! The man was a favorite among the Dominican people for the leadership of the Dominican Republic. However he was having an affair with a General's wife. While the couple were under a bridge in Santiago for a "tryist" they were both murdered. It is rumored that Trujillo informed the General about this affair knowing that the General would kill his rival for him thus knocking off this threat.
Does anyone know more about this story and possibly the names of the General, the rival and the General's wife???
Trujillo knocked off many of his threats and also many of his rivals. This assassination happened in the early 30s! The man was a favorite among the Dominican people for the leadership of the Dominican Republic. However he was having an affair with a General's wife. While the couple were under a bridge in Santiago for a "tryist" they were both murdered. It is rumored that Trujillo informed the General about this affair knowing that the General would kill his rival for him thus knocking off this threat.
Does anyone know more about this story and possibly the names of the General, the rival and the General's wife???
Lost In Translation
>>"I am also a true believer that, "I was told he did this" or "I was told he did that" stories, they lose their "definitions" in "translation"."<<
Miguel, that is exactly the point of this thread. I read on here many rumors and stories. It's like that game "telephone." By the time the rumor or story gets to the 100th person, the original story becomes an entirely different story all together. Many times the orator puts his/her own flavor into the mix to make the story more interesting.. like Julia Alvarez and the Mirabal sisters.
We all have family members like that. I'm sure you have one or two in your family who like to talk and spread gossip.
At the beginning of this thread, DR1 member, Dolores, reiterates a story about "Trujillo Myths." That is the whole point of this thread and I would like to see or hear more documented proof to learn more about how we can dispell myths about Trujillo and about our Domnican history.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39490&page=1&pp=15
Some people state on this forum they left their history books and "notes" at home. Let's talk abut what we can support through documentation. In this way, the younger generation has a point of reference to do their own research. Let's not continue to tell our stories of truth mixed with fiction.
Julia Alvarez admits on her own website that her story about the Mirabal sisters was told through the "lens of fiction" after her family fled DR.
http://www.juliaalvarez.com/books/
Was this good or bad for DR?
We popularize stories from our own point of view. It is up to us Dominicans and the rest of the world to dig for the truth to uncover the truth about our history and people.
My father said that my grandfather's cousin on my uncle side said... stories are just that.. they are truths blended with fiction, created to hold the interest of prospective audiences.
We must look at the context Trujillo was living in. He did not live in a time filled with instant messaging and cell phones. It was a different time then and we have to keep our minds open to that fact.
Was it right for the USA to support segregation or to deny women the right to vote less than a century ago? In 2005, we would say "No, that was not right." However, if you lived in the year 1930 then what would you have said?
The younger generation must look back into history through our own "lens." Just like Julia Alavarez did with her book, we have the right to tell our own stories. But this time around let's make sure that our stories are not constructed to profit off of someone else's loss.
And let's put Dominican actors and actresses in our own movies.
Here's another question: Why are most films on Trujillo represented by people of other cultures?
>>"I am also a true believer that, "I was told he did this" or "I was told he did that" stories, they lose their "definitions" in "translation"."<<
Miguel, that is exactly the point of this thread. I read on here many rumors and stories. It's like that game "telephone." By the time the rumor or story gets to the 100th person, the original story becomes an entirely different story all together. Many times the orator puts his/her own flavor into the mix to make the story more interesting.. like Julia Alvarez and the Mirabal sisters.
We all have family members like that. I'm sure you have one or two in your family who like to talk and spread gossip.
At the beginning of this thread, DR1 member, Dolores, reiterates a story about "Trujillo Myths." That is the whole point of this thread and I would like to see or hear more documented proof to learn more about how we can dispell myths about Trujillo and about our Domnican history.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39490&page=1&pp=15
Some people state on this forum they left their history books and "notes" at home. Let's talk abut what we can support through documentation. In this way, the younger generation has a point of reference to do their own research. Let's not continue to tell our stories of truth mixed with fiction.
Julia Alvarez admits on her own website that her story about the Mirabal sisters was told through the "lens of fiction" after her family fled DR.
http://www.juliaalvarez.com/books/
Was this good or bad for DR?
We popularize stories from our own point of view. It is up to us Dominicans and the rest of the world to dig for the truth to uncover the truth about our history and people.
My father said that my grandfather's cousin on my uncle side said... stories are just that.. they are truths blended with fiction, created to hold the interest of prospective audiences.
We must look at the context Trujillo was living in. He did not live in a time filled with instant messaging and cell phones. It was a different time then and we have to keep our minds open to that fact.
Was it right for the USA to support segregation or to deny women the right to vote less than a century ago? In 2005, we would say "No, that was not right." However, if you lived in the year 1930 then what would you have said?
The younger generation must look back into history through our own "lens." Just like Julia Alavarez did with her book, we have the right to tell our own stories. But this time around let's make sure that our stories are not constructed to profit off of someone else's loss.
And let's put Dominican actors and actresses in our own movies.
Here's another question: Why are most films on Trujillo represented by people of other cultures?
Doriaflowerz, If you can offer any documentation,proof, whatever that Trujillo DID NOT order the killing of the Mirabal sisters, then post it.
The Books I mentioned by Robert crassweller, "Trujillo life and Times of a Caribbean Dictator" and "Trujillo, Death of the Goat", by Berhard Dietrich, both documnet the killings of the Mirabal sisters. Pure and simple.
The statements you make are bizarre..
How was Julia Alvarez "compelled" to write the book, "Time of the Butterflies"? Who "compelled" her? Fidel Castro? Pena Gomez? :tired:
After the Trujillo Regime collapsed and the family fled the country, there were public trials. The soldiers who actually carried out the murders testified, they told the courts their accounts, of what had happened. they turned on each other. They accounts they gave made everyone look bad, including themselves. These soldiers/SIM agents were convicted, and sent to prison. I have never heard any of these soldiers recant their testimony after they escaped the DR.
Doria, if you have some information which goes against EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT of what occured with the Mirabal sisters, then post it. You have yet to offer a single source for any of your arguments.
I've never read the book by Julia Alvarez.
Your reference to the Trujillo fortune being dispersed to various relatives of the dictator and how they are a new generation making a positive contribution to the community is more of a propganda statement than anything else. What positive contribution are they making? Has the famliy ever considered returning the stolen money back to the DR?
By all means, let's not just make posts dealing with strictly hearsay, let's have some documentation.
Your argument that things which were acceptable 100 years ago and are not acceptable today is ridiculous. 100 years ago was it acceptable to beat to death a group of women with clubs and then make it look like an accident? In 1930 was it acceptable to torture political opponents to death? Was rape acceptable? Was stealing another person farm land acceptable? NO. It was not then and it is not now.
You mention "Let's not profit for someone else's loss". That is exactly what the Trujillo exile fortune represents. Profits for other people's loss.
The Books I mentioned by Robert crassweller, "Trujillo life and Times of a Caribbean Dictator" and "Trujillo, Death of the Goat", by Berhard Dietrich, both documnet the killings of the Mirabal sisters. Pure and simple.
The statements you make are bizarre..
How was Julia Alvarez "compelled" to write the book, "Time of the Butterflies"? Who "compelled" her? Fidel Castro? Pena Gomez? :tired:
After the Trujillo Regime collapsed and the family fled the country, there were public trials. The soldiers who actually carried out the murders testified, they told the courts their accounts, of what had happened. they turned on each other. They accounts they gave made everyone look bad, including themselves. These soldiers/SIM agents were convicted, and sent to prison. I have never heard any of these soldiers recant their testimony after they escaped the DR.
Doria, if you have some information which goes against EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT of what occured with the Mirabal sisters, then post it. You have yet to offer a single source for any of your arguments.
I've never read the book by Julia Alvarez.
Your reference to the Trujillo fortune being dispersed to various relatives of the dictator and how they are a new generation making a positive contribution to the community is more of a propganda statement than anything else. What positive contribution are they making? Has the famliy ever considered returning the stolen money back to the DR?
By all means, let's not just make posts dealing with strictly hearsay, let's have some documentation.
Your argument that things which were acceptable 100 years ago and are not acceptable today is ridiculous. 100 years ago was it acceptable to beat to death a group of women with clubs and then make it look like an accident? In 1930 was it acceptable to torture political opponents to death? Was rape acceptable? Was stealing another person farm land acceptable? NO. It was not then and it is not now.
You mention "Let's not profit for someone else's loss". That is exactly what the Trujillo exile fortune represents. Profits for other people's loss.
joel pacheco said:
I am trying to keep this whole thing real as I read everyone's post. Although I welcome all opinions I am having a horrible time accepting some other's opinion that the Mirabal murders on the cumbre was "made up", an "accident" or "el chivo" had no knowledge about it. The heck with Julia Alvarez's book, I don't even know why people are bringing her up. Like everything else, read everyone's opinion but take everything that is written with a grain of salt. But to say that this incident never happened is disgusting! Alvarez had her opinion, she did her own investigation and she spoke to Dede Mirabal, the surviving sister in Salcedo. According to Alvarez, Dede Mirabal did not even want to talk to her about this whole thing. But after some time she opened up. Yes again, it is conjecture and a person's opinion.
Now once again I am including the link regarding this incident. It is NOT Alvarez's opinion, it is not Dede Mirabal's opinion, it is the facts including the names of the assassins!
http://www.learntoquestion.com/seevak/groups/2000/sites/mirabal/English/index.html
To all of those that keep these heroines close to their hearts bless you. To all of you that choose to turn your heads as you have done for years simply because it is not what your political party believes! Shame on you. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!
Readytogo said:
Good point, after all it is just another site. I think you know where and who I was directing my ire at.
Chirimoya said:
Chirimoya,
But as we all expected, this was going to set off people's emotions.
One day in Sosua a few younger Dominicans were talking about Las Tres Mariposas. There was an older gentleman who was a bit intoxicated and was bragging and claiming to be an officer in "El Jefe's SIM". He yelled over to the others that he was there on the cumbre on that day and they got what they deserved. A couple of other Dominicans got up from their tables and approached this man telling him to shut up or else! Many years later and this subject really gets people's emotions stirred up.
Well, talking about Trujillo related stories, true or not, I remember that while growing up in Cuba, one of my aunts told me that Trujillo was really mean because he had crematoriums for his victims- like the nazis- and that they were placed there alive! She did not make up the story, I think she read it in some newspaper or magazine and took it as fact. When I heard the story I was really terrified and could hardly believe it. Well, as the years went by, I never saw any reference to that in anything I have read about the Trujillo era. This led me to believe that it was not a true story. I see that, even today, Dominicans have a hard time separating facts from fiction and myths from reality when it comes to the name Trujillo. Even when faced with factual evidence regarding an incident, a murder or an assasination, you are likely to hear different and sometimes contradictory interpretations of the same. I guess this is normal due the passage of time, the very nature of the regime and the sympathies of those who lived during those years and the stories they have passed on to their descendants. Most of us non-Dominicans are not acquainted with that era and these discussions are a good way to learn something about it.
Sensitive Topic
Talk about emotional posts... I hope we can stay objective and give our younger generation the opportunity to discover Dominican history and culture with their own eyes (in a positive way).
Looking back at almost every culture in the world, one can say there were atrocities that occurred. These past events still spark emotions in the younger generation... just look at what is happening in the Middle East and in Asia.
Defending positions point by point hinders growth and progress. Misunderstanding and lack of communication breeds animosity in many cultures.. not just ours.
It's about demystifying the past for the sake of understanding the present in order for us Dominicans to move forward into a bright and opportunity-filled future. Isn't it true we all want DR to continue to do well economically, socially and politically?
The answer may lie in our people's individual ability to seek and make something of opportunities that exist in DR and overseas. Let's support them as they continue to retrain their "eyes" to better their own lives. How many of us send clothing and money back home to family members who don't seek employment or are satisfied with maintaining the statsu quo?
Even Dominicans living abroad can contribute by choosing to bring their optimism back to DR in the form of economic opportunity and by supporting positive social and political reform. It's all about being active and wanting to contribute in a major way by being prisms of change.
We currently live in a global community connected by fiber optic cables and wireless technology. DR's Progress is now a worldwide effort and we too posting on this forum are a part of that global effort as we discuss topics in a virtual world where our minds meet.
Issues about Trujillo's role in DR's past, present and future will always be talked about for generations to come. It's a great topic for discussion that sparks emotions. And I know us Dominicans have more emotional supply than there is demand.
In any case, can anyone answer why we do not have enough Dominican actors in movies pertaining to Trujillo's era?
Talk about emotional posts... I hope we can stay objective and give our younger generation the opportunity to discover Dominican history and culture with their own eyes (in a positive way).
Looking back at almost every culture in the world, one can say there were atrocities that occurred. These past events still spark emotions in the younger generation... just look at what is happening in the Middle East and in Asia.
Defending positions point by point hinders growth and progress. Misunderstanding and lack of communication breeds animosity in many cultures.. not just ours.
It's about demystifying the past for the sake of understanding the present in order for us Dominicans to move forward into a bright and opportunity-filled future. Isn't it true we all want DR to continue to do well economically, socially and politically?
The answer may lie in our people's individual ability to seek and make something of opportunities that exist in DR and overseas. Let's support them as they continue to retrain their "eyes" to better their own lives. How many of us send clothing and money back home to family members who don't seek employment or are satisfied with maintaining the statsu quo?
Even Dominicans living abroad can contribute by choosing to bring their optimism back to DR in the form of economic opportunity and by supporting positive social and political reform. It's all about being active and wanting to contribute in a major way by being prisms of change.
We currently live in a global community connected by fiber optic cables and wireless technology. DR's Progress is now a worldwide effort and we too posting on this forum are a part of that global effort as we discuss topics in a virtual world where our minds meet.
Issues about Trujillo's role in DR's past, present and future will always be talked about for generations to come. It's a great topic for discussion that sparks emotions. And I know us Dominicans have more emotional supply than there is demand.
In any case, can anyone answer why we do not have enough Dominican actors in movies pertaining to Trujillo's era?
Therein lies the answer. Those movies- which I have not seen- were made in Hollywood by Hollywood for an audience that knows nothing about the DR and they decided on which actors to use in order to make it more marketable. They just wanted to tell a story, not to enlighten people about DR's history, its people or political situation, I think.
I can't speak for the 'Butterflies' movie which I have not seen, but the recent 'Feast of the Goat' which was not a Dominican production but was filmed here did include several Dominican actors in supporting roles. Pericles Mejia as Balaguer, for instance.
See the IMDB listing for the movie.
See the IMDB listing for the movie.