New US immigration law impacts Dominicans Dominicantoday

[Matilda]

I also find it interesting that Dominicans in the US are immigrants, and Americans (and other nationalities) in the DR are expats.

Matilda

Matilda, I don't think it is mostly retired Dominicans looking to go live in the states. I think globally people looking to move to a new country, U.S. or otherwise, typically do so to find better opportunities for themselves and their families. They are looking to become citizens of that country and raise their family in that new country whereas most people coming to a country like the D.R. or similar come at a later age looking to live out their years in a new country, many times to reduce their costs, but the majority of the time not looking to bring or raise a family.

As Gorgon mentioned I was referring to terminology - there is a very different connotation between an immigrant and and expat - according to Google "Expat vs Immigrant. ... An expat or expatriate is simply defined as a person who lives outside their native country. Similarly, an immigrant is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Only one distinction is made here – immigrants intend to stay in their new country indefinitely." So I have no intention of returning to the UK which makes me an immigrant. Hmmm.

Re retirement versus working people, while yes I agree that few Dominicans would go to the US to retire, not all expats (haha) come here to retire. Several have businesses ie hotels/ restaurants/bars, several work on line on in tourist related industries. Not all come here to retire - many work in foreign owned companies such as Barrick Gold. I have no idea of the stats.

Matilda

 

[Commander Ooh La La USN]

You are missing JasonD's point and it is accurate and you are accurate as well.

Everyday based on the numbers a Dominican is ordered deported from the US. So they remain incarcerated until a flight is scheduled to repatriate them......which is what I think you may have been referencing.

Those flights were at one point running every week on Wednesday landing at Las Americas based on the numbers to be repatriated.

And you are correct..............not all deportees were repatriated for drug offenses. Some were for murder, rape, robbery, fraud, pedophilia, and various other deportable crimes.

As to Dominicans in prison, there are approximately 1,500 currently incarcerated in federal prisons alone.......comprising about 1% of the total federal prison population.

The figures in the state jails and state prison system are likely much higher.

But the larger question is that those figures and the figures of immigrants from other countries to the US, should give cause to review how immigration policy is conducted.......and that is something currently under review.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

The larger question is what is making assimilation so difficult for Dominicans? Yemenis and Cambodians dont fare much better educationally and they dont even have the "feasibility" of a Latin influenced language to aid them in their literacy. Even Indians with Ph.Ds or Ukranians with MDs back home who are driving yellow cabs or Ubers know education isnt everything.

Btw those other people also exploit the public assistance programs in the USA.

Sent from the Federation Intergalactic space vessel: DromOlax 3B55-90R

 

[CristoRey]

it is all attitude. many times, poverty is a frame of mind.

100% agreed.

 

[malko]

I also find it interesting that Dominicans in the US are immigrants, and Americans (and other nationalities) in the DR are expats.

Matilda

Matilda, I don't think it is mostly retired Dominicans looking to go live in the states. I think globally people looking to move to a new country, U.S. or otherwise, typically do so to find better opportunities for themselves and their families. They are looking to become citizens of that country and raise their family in that new country whereas most people coming to a country like the D.R. or similar come at a later age looking to live out their years in a new country, many times to reduce their costs, but the majority of the time not looking to bring or raise a family.

So, even if its a bit off topic, americans ( or british, or australians ) in switzerland are expats, and most are not there to retire ( quite the opposite, they will retire back to their home country one day ), they are there to work at the UN, P&G, Bayer, JTI, etc.......
Africans and south americans are immigrants.

Sooo, expat : citizen of 1st world country who relocates to a diffrent country.
Immigrant : every1 else who relocates to a diffrent country.

 

[CristoRey]

So, even if its a bit off topic, americans ( or british, or australians ) in switzerland are expats, and most are not there to retire ( quite the opposite, they will retire back to their home country one day ), they are there to work at the UN, P&G, Bayer, JTI, etc.......
Africans and south americans are immigrants.

Sooo, expat : citizen of 1st world country who relocates to a diffrent country.
Immigrant : every1 else who relocates to a diffrent country.

Developed country: Expat
Developing country: Immigrant
However, when I read the news here in the Dominican Republic and
they write about "immigrants" from various countries (including the USA)
being denied entry or deported... I've yet to read anything about a "expat"
being denied entry or deported. Perhaps someone can explain?

 

[windeguy]

lamentable to whom? certainly not to the people who have the proclivity to notice only the bad things that are attributed to people.

It is lamentable because it gives all of the decent people a bad name.

The reality is that far too many Dominicans are experts at working the system. I personally know people that are friends and family members that do it, and they all know many others that do the same.

 

[Garyexpat]

So, even if its a bit off topic, americans ( or british, or australians ) in switzerland are expats, and most are not there to retire ( quite the opposite, they will retire back to their home country one day ), they are there to work at the UN, P&G, Bayer, JTI, etc.......
Africans and south americans are immigrants.

Sooo, expat : citizen of 1st world country who relocates to a diffrent country.
Immigrant : every1 else who relocates to a diffrent country.

I don't really get the point of the distinction unless you are affirming that the word immigrant is derogatory. My grandparents were immigrants from Europe. Do I reflect on this in a negative manner? of course not.
Yes, people working for a Gov or business temporarily in another country do fit the term Expat and so maybe it's just me who thinks of it more applying to older people moving to another (typically less expensive) country to enjoy retirement.

I will acknowledge that immigrants entering the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th century were looked down upon by many, with short memories, who had been in the states for several generations.

 

[the gorgon]

It is lamentable because it gives all of the decent people a bad name.

The reality is that far too many Dominicans are experts at working the system. I personally know people that are friends and family members that do it, and they all know many others that do the same.

you keep missing my point. Dominicans work the system. that we all know. however, other people do the same as Dominicans, and their general population does not get stigmatized for it.

 

[malko]

I don't really get the point of the distinction unless you are affirming that the word immigrant is derogatory. My grandparents were immigrants from Europe. Do I reflect on this in a negative manner? of course not.
Yes, people working for a Gov or business temporarily in another country do fit the term Expat and so maybe it's just me who thinks of it more applying to older people moving to another (typically less expensive) country to enjoy retirement.

I will acknowledge that immigrants entering the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th century were looked down upon by many, with short memories, who had been in the states for several generations.

Well apparently there does seem to be a distinction made between expat and immigrant. I couldnt say why though. And its not me personnally making said distinction. It just seems to be a fact. Take dr1 or google ads as an example, i get a bunch that say " X expat in Y " ( X and Y changes depending on where I am and what device/service provider I am using ), but I never get any saying " X immigrant in Y ".

I do agree though that the vast majority of dominicans emigrate to the US ( or elsewhere ) to make more money whereas an american ( or a european ) who relocates to the dr comes to spend money.----- to make it simple.
But then we should have counter-examples of dominican expats in the US, ie rich dominicans relocating to the US.

 

[playacaribe2]

It is lamentable because it gives all of the decent people a bad name.

The reality is that far too many Dominicans are experts at working the system. I personally know people that are friends and family members that do it, and they all know many others that do the same.

Yes it does give them decent people a bad name. And yes they are experts at working the system.

My wife made her first, last and only trip to a supermarket catering to spanish foods/produce predominated by Dominicans and Puerto Ricans.

As she stood in line to pay, with cash in hand, the woman behind her struck up a conversation. Finding out my wife was also from the Cibao, the woman informed her that she should not have to pay, gave my wife her number, and said to call her, and she would tell her what she needed to do to get the "card."

That is but one example of people offering their "help"..........some looking for a propina ...... before hand and some after she is approved for benefits.

To say the least, she is downright embarrassed and dismayed at the behavior of some of these individuals.........and fully understands, after seeing the news of Dominicans arrested for selling drugs, stealing identities, filing false tax returns, welfare fraud, etc., why some people feel the way they do about the people from her country.

And she fully supports any efforts to change the current immigration system to allow for immediate family only, with a priority to children under 18. After that, she agrees that it should be a merit based system.....


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[cobraboy]

As Gorgon mentioned I was referring to terminology - there is a very different connotation between an immigrant and and expat - according to Google "Expat vs Immigrant. ... An expat or expatriate is simply defined as a person who lives outside their native country. Similarly, an immigrant is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Only one distinction is made here – immigrants intend to stay in their new country indefinitely." So I have no intention of returning to the UK which makes me an immigrant. Hmmm.

Re retirement versus working people, while yes I agree that few Dominicans would go to the US to retire, not all expats (haha) come here to retire. Several have businesses ie hotels/ restaurants/bars, several work on line on in tourist related industries. Not all come here to retire - many work in foreign owned companies such as Barrick Gold. I have no idea of the stats.

Matilda

One expatriates from a country and immigrates into a country.

It is a matter of direction.

One can be both.

I expatriated from the US and immigrated to the Dominican Republic.

Expat has become slang for anyone who lives in one country while still maintaining connections in another country. For instance, I still maintain properties and a domicile (of sorts) in the US, so many in the DR refer to me as an expat. Fact is I am a legal immigrant.

Expatriates also tend to be professionals or economically self-sufficient to live outside the local economy of their foreign residence.

Additionally, an expatriate may be temporary. He becomes an immigrant when he chooses to domicile in a new country permanently. Your example of an employee of Barick is a good one. His tenure may be temporary, so he is an expatriate and not an immigrant.

In a nutshell, all immigrants are expatriates, but not all expatriates are immigrants.

Clear as mud, huh?

 

[cobraboy]

Yes it does give them decent people a bad name. And yes they are experts at working the system.

My wife made her first, last and only trip to a supermarket catering to spanish foods/produce predominated by Dominicans and Puerto Ricans.

As she stood in line to pay, with cash in hand, the woman behind her struck up a conversation. Finding out my wife was also from the Cibao, the woman informed her that she should not have to pay, gave my wife her number, and said to call her, and she would tell her what she needed to do to get the "card."

That is but one example of people offering their "help"..........some looking for a propina ...... before hand and some after she is approved for benefits.

To say the least, she is downright embarrassed and dismayed at the behavior of some of these individuals.........and fully understands, after seeing the news of Dominicans arrested for selling drugs, stealing identities, filing false tax returns, welfare fraud, etc., why some people feel the way they do about the people from her country.

And she fully supports any efforts to change the current immigration system to allow for immediate family only, with a priority to children under 18. After that, she agrees that it should be a merit based system.....


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

In 2010 Alida and I made a trip to NYC to visit her relatives. One relative had a friend who collects used boutique women's clothing to sell in her basement before shipping in barrels to the DR. Suppoosdely she just got a batch of merchandise, and we went to check it out, somewhere in the Brooklyn, I have no idea where.

So we went.

The place was a three story townhouse on a crowded street. As we walked to the place with the clothes, the townhouse next door was just crawling with people, all Dominicans. I asked what was going on and was told that there was a woman and some lawyer giving a course on how to get on the gubmint cheese with a $100 tuition. I'll bet there was $10,000 in tuition walking around.

Yes, welfare fraud is quite the cottage industry in NYC...and I am sure other places, too.

 

[windeguy]

In 2010 Alida and I made a trip to NYC to visit her relatives. One relative had a friend who collects used boutique women's clothing to sell in her basement before shipping in barrels to the DR. Suppoosdely she just got a batch of merchandise, and we went to check it out, somewhere in the Brooklyn, I have no idea where.

So we went.

The place was a three story townhouse on a crowded street. As we walked to the place with the clothes, the townhouse next door was just crawling with people, all Dominicans. I asked what was going on and was told that there was a woman and some lawyer giving a course on how to get on the gubmint cheese with a $100 tuition. I'll bet there was $10,000 in tuition walking around.

Yes, welfare fraud is quite the cottage industry in NYC...and I am sure other places, too.

Yet there are those that would dismiss this behavior as just applying to a few people.

 

[the gorgon]

Yet there are those that would dismiss this behavior as just applying to a few people.

many of us have lived in areas where welfare fraud is rampant, such an NYC.. it is not as if we do not know what goes on.

my only opposition to the remarks is that everyone can provide any number of anecdotes of Dominicans, and Jamaicans, and Puerto Ricans who abuse the safety net, but nobody ever has any stories about the Russians, and the Croatians, and the Albanians who have some ingenious scams, themselves.

 

[rfp]

many of us have lived in areas where welfare fraud is rampant, such an NYC.. it is not as if we do not know what goes on.

my only opposition to the remarks is that everyone can provide any number of anecdotes of Dominicans, and Jamaicans, and Puerto Ricans who abuse the safety net, but nobody ever has any stories about the Russians, and the Croatians, and the Albanians who have some ingenious scams, themselves.

That is because this is a Dominican forum, people here are Dominican or live here. Many from Eastern Europe are scum too, there is no place for them in USA either.

 

[Don PISTOLAS]

That is because this is a Dominican forum, people here are Dominican or live here. Many from Eastern Europe are scum too, there is no place for them in USA either.

Exactly!!!

 

[NALs]

Yes it does give them decent people a bad name. And yes they are experts at working the system.

My wife made her first, last and only trip to a supermarket catering to spanish foods/produce predominated by Dominicans and Puerto Ricans.

As she stood in line to pay, with cash in hand, the woman behind her struck up a conversation. Finding out my wife was also from the Cibao, the woman informed her that she should not have to pay, gave my wife her number, and said to call her, and she would tell her what she needed to do to get the "card."

That is but one example of people offering their "help"..........some looking for a propina ...... before hand and some after she is approved for benefits.

To say the least, she is downright embarrassed and dismayed at the behavior of some of these individuals.........and fully understands, after seeing the news of Dominicans arrested for selling drugs, stealing identities, filing false tax returns, welfare fraud, etc., why some people feel the way they do about the people from her country.

And she fully supports any efforts to change the current immigration system to allow for immediate family only, with a priority to children under 18. After that, she agrees that it should be a merit based system.....


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

Try explaining to any of them that that´s corruption, theft, and fraud. They will give you an earful of why it isn´t. You repeat with different words and examples, thinking maybe they just don´t understand. Then they give you another earful for why it isn´t. Then you quit.

I truly believe many, if not most, see nothing morally wrong with those actions.

 

[rfp]

Try explaining to any of them that that´s corruption, theft, and fraud. They will give you an earful of why it isn´t. You repeat with different words and examples, thinking maybe they just don´t understand. Then they give you another earful for why it isn´t. Then you quit.

I truly believe many, if not most, see nothing morally wrong with those actions.

Yes, they truly think that the "system" or the "man" owes them something. These are the people in Gorgons Forbes article, the 15% who stay poor with no equity but have the financial security of the "system" behind them. They have the same attitude that other ungrateful, underachieving darlings of the political left.

 

[the gorgon]

Yes, they truly think that the "system" or the "man" owes them something. These are the people in Gorgons Forbes article, the 15% who stay poor with no equity but have the financial security of the "system" behind them. They have the same attitude that other ungrateful, underachieving darlings of the political left.

when you decide to pontificate on economic realities, the very least you need to do is to enrol in an economics class, and spend some years learning the subject matter. the people who have no equity in America represent a wide spectrum of outcomes. people get to where they are economically for a kaleidoscope of reasons. when you throw the word ''equity'' around, you need to know what equity is. it is the difference between an asset, and the liabilities which can be held against that asset. in the USA, the most common household asset is a home. many of the people in the USA who have not owned a home have not been derelict in their quest for homeownership, but are products of GOVERNMENT POLICIES which denied them the right to own a home. people who were historically allowed to own homes, and people who were not, will end up at two different places, because the lack of any form of tangible asset is what creates the class of people with no net worth.

 

[bob saunders]

What government polices in the past 50 years have denied anyone a right to a home?