It's like money laundering. US Public money is sent to Haiti to "help democracy take root". Haiti buys American made weaponry and American goods from the Haliburtons of the world ......... a few haitians get rich in the process........The government tries to funnel money to the poor.....but that isnt in the interest of the American companies..... Their interest is to sell more so an unstable government in Haiti .THATS what the doctor ordered........ sell sell sell......... whats a few dead Haitians in the interest of "Democracy". Face it there has been enough cash poured into the country that if properly handled would have raised the lifestyle of every Haitian in the country..............
- Thread starter moviemouth
- Start date
NYTimes Article:"Mixed Diplomatice Signals From U.S. Helped Tilt Haiti Towards Chaos"
- Status
Aegap,
You are not seeing the negative effect these T'ist have caused for the future of the island. Stop for a minute in think..Geez, are you that blind to see that many innocent haitians as well as dominicans will suffer. Puerto Rico is already full of dominicans and main land has a huge portion as well. People will migrate where the living conditions are slightly better in this case haitians will pour into DR and dominicans will pour into PR.
The chaos these people from the North started will eventually leave the burden on the DR already broken shoulders. Is this what you want? Oh I forgot you're living in an urban city in NJ thus you scream dominicano soy and waving your bandera but deep down don't care about your tios and tias behind in Los Minas.. You think sending remesas will help these people. Nope, rather you are the welfare check they depend on to survive and most are not bright enough to use that money for good use...:ermm: So that 70 hr per/wk job in the factory is done all in vain..
Mirador,
What do you mean this DOMINICANS look Haitian because they are from the southwest and will not defend their patria. Look at you guys putting down your OWN people because people from the southwest have more things in common Haiti than the supposedly image and identity of a dominican...Most dominicans have haitian blood anyway..yeah I said it!!!
The fact of the matter is hispaniola will remain a third world country where foreignors trick your women and exploit poor haitians. And the urban thugged out dominican from USA will proclaim to be a die hard dominican and come down once a year to show off what they purchased on CREDIT en La Gran Manzana.
Ok forget it..lets just follow the elections in Haiti and see what unfolds..or do you guys think this has nothing to do with DR affairs?
You are not seeing the negative effect these T'ist have caused for the future of the island. Stop for a minute in think..Geez, are you that blind to see that many innocent haitians as well as dominicans will suffer. Puerto Rico is already full of dominicans and main land has a huge portion as well. People will migrate where the living conditions are slightly better in this case haitians will pour into DR and dominicans will pour into PR.
The chaos these people from the North started will eventually leave the burden on the DR already broken shoulders. Is this what you want? Oh I forgot you're living in an urban city in NJ thus you scream dominicano soy and waving your bandera but deep down don't care about your tios and tias behind in Los Minas.. You think sending remesas will help these people. Nope, rather you are the welfare check they depend on to survive and most are not bright enough to use that money for good use...:ermm: So that 70 hr per/wk job in the factory is done all in vain..
Mirador,
What do you mean this DOMINICANS look Haitian because they are from the southwest and will not defend their patria. Look at you guys putting down your OWN people because people from the southwest have more things in common Haiti than the supposedly image and identity of a dominican...Most dominicans have haitian blood anyway..yeah I said it!!!
The fact of the matter is hispaniola will remain a third world country where foreignors trick your women and exploit poor haitians. And the urban thugged out dominican from USA will proclaim to be a die hard dominican and come down once a year to show off what they purchased on CREDIT en La Gran Manzana.
Ok forget it..lets just follow the elections in Haiti and see what unfolds..or do you guys think this has nothing to do with DR affairs?
I have been reading all of your rants with much amusement. A lot of you seem to enjoy throwing around words such as Pres Bush, Pres Fernandez, Pres Aristide and democracy without any clue as to what these people or word can do or not do.
Mirador seems to be the only one that has any kind of handle on the situation presented in the OP and everything else mentioned in this thread. His quote "Actually that's not the message that comes across, more like the Bush administration has no control over it's own foreign policy, and that different departments and players within the U.S. government work dissonantly and at cross purposes.", pretty well sums up the situation in all countries in the world to include the DR.
If a president of a democracy had the power to initiate, single handedly, those things that would help their country grow don't you think that the DR, Haiti or the USA, as an example, would be much better off then they presently are? It is because that aren't able to do such and must rely on the other branches of government, to work in unison for the common good of the country, that causes the problems.
I honestly think that Pres Fernandez wants the RD to be a better country and all of its people to prospher but he really can only do what his cabinet, advisers and opposition allow him or advise him to do. Do you think he went to bed one night and woke up the next morning with the idea to raise taxes across the board? Is it possible that he asked his advisers what they could do to help get the DR out of the situation they were in from the prior administration and his "expert" advisers told him what to do? Do you think the Pres then sat down and wrote up the bill and carried it to the senate for implementation? The presidents of all democratic countries are only the fallguys for the people within their own governments that place personal interest above that of their country.
Concerning Pres Aristide. Here is a preacher that was never groomed to be a president and then one day he is one. On that day he became president how much experience do you think he had for the job? Like pres Fernandez I think he really had the betterment of his country in mind when he took the job but soon found out that it wasn't that easy and that he had to deal with the opposition. It was how he dealt with the opposition that started all his troubles. If there had only been one front of opposition then maybe he would have been able to handle it but that opposition came from a lot of different fronts as there were a lot of different sectors that were feeling the pain of the prior governments. It is my belief that if the USA or the IRI had not been involved that Aristide would have been ousted anyway and with much more bloodshed then has transpired. So did the actions of the foreign policy of the USA or the IRI help topple pres Airstide? Possibly but as I stated he was going to happen anyway. Was it a good thing that he was ousted? Depends on what Haitian you ask. If you were to ask Guy Phillippe, Stanley Lucas or Wendell Claude I would think they would all agree it was good.
For those of you that always seem to want to accuse a president of the wrongs within a country I wish to inform you that the presidents are only human and in reality not all that smart. The classic example I like to use is about ex pres G W H Bush. Now here was a man that was well groomed for the presidency and to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world. It was in 1988 on his visit to the National Grocers Association conference in Orlando, Fla that President George Bush was "amazed" at encountering supermarket scanners for the first time. The scanner was introduced at supermarket checkouts in 1980, the year Bush was elected vice president, and is just one of the many aspects of everyday life from which a president or vice president is shielded in the private life of public office. There are so many aspects of our everyday life that these leaders in public office are shielded from in their private lives and therefore can not possibly understand or comprehend what we as a people go through. Without this ability to comprehend how can they possibly be expected to lead us in the proper direction. One of the things that really ticks me off is when a politician, regardless from which country, gets up in front of poor people and says ":I know how you feel" or "I know what you are going through". Makes me want to get up in their face and say "you're full of chit"!!
The future of Haiti or any other country is in the hands of its people and this especially true for a democracy. If you think that a democracy is free and easy then you haven't studied history. When the future elections of Haiti take place, and I think the results will be as disastrous as before, the blame will once again be placed on the USA or DR or whom ever is available but in reality the blame will be on the people of Haiti and them alone.
On a side note. Speaking of democracy and constitutions and the USA. Who was the first person to go against the constitution of the USA and turned it on its head?
Answer; President Lincoln
Rick
Mirador seems to be the only one that has any kind of handle on the situation presented in the OP and everything else mentioned in this thread. His quote "Actually that's not the message that comes across, more like the Bush administration has no control over it's own foreign policy, and that different departments and players within the U.S. government work dissonantly and at cross purposes.", pretty well sums up the situation in all countries in the world to include the DR.
If a president of a democracy had the power to initiate, single handedly, those things that would help their country grow don't you think that the DR, Haiti or the USA, as an example, would be much better off then they presently are? It is because that aren't able to do such and must rely on the other branches of government, to work in unison for the common good of the country, that causes the problems.
I honestly think that Pres Fernandez wants the RD to be a better country and all of its people to prospher but he really can only do what his cabinet, advisers and opposition allow him or advise him to do. Do you think he went to bed one night and woke up the next morning with the idea to raise taxes across the board? Is it possible that he asked his advisers what they could do to help get the DR out of the situation they were in from the prior administration and his "expert" advisers told him what to do? Do you think the Pres then sat down and wrote up the bill and carried it to the senate for implementation? The presidents of all democratic countries are only the fallguys for the people within their own governments that place personal interest above that of their country.
Concerning Pres Aristide. Here is a preacher that was never groomed to be a president and then one day he is one. On that day he became president how much experience do you think he had for the job? Like pres Fernandez I think he really had the betterment of his country in mind when he took the job but soon found out that it wasn't that easy and that he had to deal with the opposition. It was how he dealt with the opposition that started all his troubles. If there had only been one front of opposition then maybe he would have been able to handle it but that opposition came from a lot of different fronts as there were a lot of different sectors that were feeling the pain of the prior governments. It is my belief that if the USA or the IRI had not been involved that Aristide would have been ousted anyway and with much more bloodshed then has transpired. So did the actions of the foreign policy of the USA or the IRI help topple pres Airstide? Possibly but as I stated he was going to happen anyway. Was it a good thing that he was ousted? Depends on what Haitian you ask. If you were to ask Guy Phillippe, Stanley Lucas or Wendell Claude I would think they would all agree it was good.
For those of you that always seem to want to accuse a president of the wrongs within a country I wish to inform you that the presidents are only human and in reality not all that smart. The classic example I like to use is about ex pres G W H Bush. Now here was a man that was well groomed for the presidency and to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world. It was in 1988 on his visit to the National Grocers Association conference in Orlando, Fla that President George Bush was "amazed" at encountering supermarket scanners for the first time. The scanner was introduced at supermarket checkouts in 1980, the year Bush was elected vice president, and is just one of the many aspects of everyday life from which a president or vice president is shielded in the private life of public office. There are so many aspects of our everyday life that these leaders in public office are shielded from in their private lives and therefore can not possibly understand or comprehend what we as a people go through. Without this ability to comprehend how can they possibly be expected to lead us in the proper direction. One of the things that really ticks me off is when a politician, regardless from which country, gets up in front of poor people and says ":I know how you feel" or "I know what you are going through". Makes me want to get up in their face and say "you're full of chit"!!
The future of Haiti or any other country is in the hands of its people and this especially true for a democracy. If you think that a democracy is free and easy then you haven't studied history. When the future elections of Haiti take place, and I think the results will be as disastrous as before, the blame will once again be placed on the USA or DR or whom ever is available but in reality the blame will be on the people of Haiti and them alone.
On a side note. Speaking of democracy and constitutions and the USA. Who was the first person to go against the constitution of the USA and turned it on its head?
Answer; President Lincoln
Rick
I agree with much of what Rick stated, except the sentence I quoted here.Rick Snyder said:
The future of Haiti is NOT in the hands of its people, but rather in the hands of those with machine guns and guts to create chaos, destruction, fear, and rape the country of it's stability and potential progress. It should be in the hands of the people, it would be nice if it was in the hands of the people, but the reality is that currently its not!
From the day Toussaint liberated the Haitian people from French control, Haiti has seen more revolutions than probably any other peace of independent real estate in this hemisphere!
The issue with Haiti is that everyone wants something, but not a sinlge person wants to give!
They all want a better country (that would be a blessing) but not many Haitians are willing to do what it would take to make their country better!
Those who are inclined to focus the remainder of their lives for the benefit of Haiti are overshadowed by those who are corrupt, shallow, and self centered, constantly creating coups, revolutions, murder, and fear for the sake of taking power only to enrich themselves.
These things occurs in the DR as well (minus the revolutions which have subsided in the past 40 years or so) and the same applies to other Latin American countries, but Haiti over does this by a tremendous degree.
There is no reason why Haiti should not be in the same economic position the DR is right now! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti cannot be politically stable like the DR! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti can't be like the DR in economic/political aspects!
The US invaded both countries, did their will on both countries and yet, the DR has proven to be economically/politically superior than Haiti in the past few years.
This is not due to any real superiority between Dominican and Haitians, there is no such thing. This is due to relative peace and stability.
The day the thugs who keep Haiti on the verge of a nervous breakdown relax and put their arms down, that will be the day Haiti will begin to progress in all its aspects.
But as long as the rifle and the fear rules, Haiti will continue to collapse into a hole that is deeper than anyone could ever imagine.
All the countries of the world can help Haiti, but first Haiti has to be willing to help itself. I'm not too sure if Haiti is ready to help itself, the last events that have occured have left me doubtful of Haiti progressing at least during my lifetime.
-NALs
It is funny you say that,Quisqueya said:
One day you made a big argument with me in another thread and strongly denied the fact that Haitians are saturating many corners of our country bringing in with them all their customs to include their vodoo religion.
Do you want me to pull that thread?
Quote by NALS;
"I agree with much of what Rick stated, except the sentence I quoted here.
The future of Haiti is NOT in the hands of its people, but rather in the hands of those with machine guns and guts to create chaos, destruction, fear, and rape the country of it's stability and potential progress. It should be in the hands of the people, it would be nice if it was in the hands of the people, but the reality is that currently its not!
From the day Toussaint liberated the Haitian people from French control, Haiti has seen more revolutions than probably any other peace of independent real estate in this hemisphere!
The issue with Haiti is that everyone wants something, but not a sinlge person wants to give!
They all want a better country (that would be a blessing) but not many Haitians are willing to do what it would take to make their country better!
Those who are inclined to focus the remainder of their lives for the benefit of Haiti are overshadowed by those who are corrupt, shallow, and self centered, constantly creating coups, revolutions, murder, and fear for the sake of taking power only to enrich themselves.
These things occurs in the DR as well (minus the revolutions which have subsided in the past 40 years or so) and the same applies to other Latin American countries, but Haiti over does this by a tremendous degree.
There is no reason why Haiti should not be in the same economic position the DR is right now! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti cannot be politically stable like the DR! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti can't be like the DR in economic/political aspects!
The US invaded both countries, did their will on both countries and yet, the DR has proven to be economically/politically superior than Haiti in the past few years.
This is not due to any real superiority between Dominican and Haitians, there is no such thing. This is due to relative peace and stability.
The day the thugs who keep Haiti on the verge of a nervous breakdown relax and put their arms down, that will be the day Haiti will begin to progress in all its aspects.
But as long as the rifle and the fear rules, Haiti will continue to collapse into a hole that is deeper than anyone could ever imagine.
All the countries of the world can help Haiti, but first Haiti has to be willing to help itself. I'm not too sure if Haiti is ready to help itself, the last events that have occured have left me doubtful of Haiti progressing at least during my lifetime."
-NALs
I posted your quote NALs because you seem to be contradicting yourself. I said "The future of Haiti or any other country is in the hands of its people", and I highlighted those words in your post that relate to Haitians. Are you then saying that the future of Haiti is not in the hands of Haitians?
Rick
"I agree with much of what Rick stated, except the sentence I quoted here.
The future of Haiti is NOT in the hands of its people, but rather in the hands of those with machine guns and guts to create chaos, destruction, fear, and rape the country of it's stability and potential progress. It should be in the hands of the people, it would be nice if it was in the hands of the people, but the reality is that currently its not!
From the day Toussaint liberated the Haitian people from French control, Haiti has seen more revolutions than probably any other peace of independent real estate in this hemisphere!
The issue with Haiti is that everyone wants something, but not a sinlge person wants to give!
They all want a better country (that would be a blessing) but not many Haitians are willing to do what it would take to make their country better!
Those who are inclined to focus the remainder of their lives for the benefit of Haiti are overshadowed by those who are corrupt, shallow, and self centered, constantly creating coups, revolutions, murder, and fear for the sake of taking power only to enrich themselves.
These things occurs in the DR as well (minus the revolutions which have subsided in the past 40 years or so) and the same applies to other Latin American countries, but Haiti over does this by a tremendous degree.
There is no reason why Haiti should not be in the same economic position the DR is right now! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti cannot be politically stable like the DR! There is no justifiable reason why Haiti can't be like the DR in economic/political aspects!
The US invaded both countries, did their will on both countries and yet, the DR has proven to be economically/politically superior than Haiti in the past few years.
This is not due to any real superiority between Dominican and Haitians, there is no such thing. This is due to relative peace and stability.
The day the thugs who keep Haiti on the verge of a nervous breakdown relax and put their arms down, that will be the day Haiti will begin to progress in all its aspects.
But as long as the rifle and the fear rules, Haiti will continue to collapse into a hole that is deeper than anyone could ever imagine.
All the countries of the world can help Haiti, but first Haiti has to be willing to help itself. I'm not too sure if Haiti is ready to help itself, the last events that have occured have left me doubtful of Haiti progressing at least during my lifetime."
-NALs
I posted your quote NALs because you seem to be contradicting yourself. I said "The future of Haiti or any other country is in the hands of its people", and I highlighted those words in your post that relate to Haitians. Are you then saying that the future of Haiti is not in the hands of Haitians?
Rick
Que Come Mierda
....just when you thought Haiti couldn't get any worst. At the rate is is going, it will soon start to envy the worst countries in Africa.
Quisqueya said:Aegap,
You are not seeing the negative effect these T'ist have caused for the future of the island. Stop for a minute in think..Geez, are you that blind to see that many innocent haitians as well as dominicans will suffer. Puerto Rico is already full of dominicans and main land has a huge portion as well. People will migrate where the living conditions are slightly better in this case haitians will pour into DR and dominicans will pour into PR.
We Dominicans do not need your faux simpathy.
Haiti and the DR have been going in opposite directions for a long time. I suggest you do more for you people, which sorely need all the help they can get. I suggest you talk less bull****.
The chaos these people from the North started will eventually leave the burden on the DR already broken shoulders. Is this what you want? Oh I forgot you're living in an urban city in NJ thus you scream dominicano soy and waving your bandera but deep down don't care about your tios and tias behind in Los Minas.. You think sending remesas will help these people. Nope, rather you are the welfare check they depend on to survive and most are not bright enough to use that money for good use...:ermm: So that 70 hr per/wk job in the factory is done all in vain..
On doit faire c'est qu'il faut faire, le mec.
I know that the best meal many Dominicans ever get is that provided by the USCG, after being caught trying to cross "El Canal de la Mona con AAA," so tell me all my uncles who were caught a few times before they sucessfully managed to get across. My mom who worked in one of San Pedro de Macoris biggest Zona Franca, from five in the morning to five in the afternoon, so that I could attend a private school, before she finally dicided to give a try. My father who even became a "convertio' after almost perishing during his first attempt. Like a true Dominican though, he forgot all about God once he made it across. All drank water with the cows as they waited. All were helped by truely generous Puerto Rican camperinos.
Thanks to the United State my father is U.S. Citizen today, thanks to the United States my mom is as sucessfull as she is today. Thanks to America I have been able to make the best of myself,so far today. Quisqueya aren't you in the United States? Vainita Malagradecida, Vainita, das penas.
Mirador,
What do you mean this DOMINICANS look Haitian because they are from the southwest and will not defend their patria. Look at you guys putting down your OWN people because people from the southwest have more things in common Haiti than the supposedly image and identity of a dominican
I have not being trying to put anyone down. I just corrected Miradors insinuation: Their poor job at the border has nothing to do with their hometowns been closer to Port-Au-Principe than they are to Santo Domingo, as he said. Furthermore it is natural for most of our army foot soldiers to come from the poorest part of our country, the Southwest. They are the ones that have a bigger incentive to join, naturally they do.
...Most dominicans have haitian blood anyway..yeah I said it!!!
If it makes you feel happy. Your point? Coming from San Pedro I also have seen how the Cocolos have intergrated into Dominican society, through decipline, their own cunning and intelligence, while the Haitians continue marginelized
The fact of the matter is hispaniola will remain a third world country where foreignors trick your women and exploit poor haitians. And the urban thugged out dominican from USA will proclaim to be a die hard dominican and come down once a year to show off what they purchased on CREDIT en La Gran Manzana.
Check where unemployment is the lowest in Hispaniola/DR and tell me if it is just a coincidence or weather foreigners have anything to do with it... Let me help you out: Punta Cana/ La Altagracia is the first place you should look at.
Ok forget it..lets just follow the elections in Haiti and see what unfolds..or do you guys think this has nothing to do with DR affairs?
One guy will win many of the 29 losers will pick up arms, **** will hit the fan (my prediction): We ain't seen nothing yet.
Did you hear about the hundreds of Marines doing humanitarian work near the border? Lets hope Pared Perez and the U.S Southern Command hurry up with that specialized border force.
....just when you thought Haiti couldn't get any worst. At the rate is is going, it will soon start to envy the worst countries in Africa.
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As long as Haiti continues to fall into revolutions, uprisings, coups and the sort, I will have a hard time believing the people of Haiti have anything to say or do towards the development of that country.Rick Snyder said:
It appears that anyone with an M-16 can and probably will rule that country. That is not rule by the people and that is certainly not democracy.
-NALs
Well,sunshine_79 said:
I did not exactly changed my screenname, I simply conformed to what the DR1 crowd wanted.
Every time people refer to my posts, they often stated "Nals said this, Nals said that" and I even began to signature my own posts with the NALs.
Simplicity always rules over complexity. :classic:
-NALs
Rick,
I agree with most of your comments regarding presidents usually taking the fall and are usually doing what is suggested by his/her cabinet. I agree with everything you stated until the point you get to the topic of haiti.
Now was Aristide groomed to become a president...I dont think so either but you have to give the guy credit for trying.. Aristide in my own opinion had good intentions his first time around and did alot for the poor mass. He decentralized educational system and gave millions of poor people, for the first time, an opportunity to attend school. Now the problem arised when Aristide tried to close the gap from the have & the have nots too fast which resulted the first coup d'etat...Now while in USA he agreed to Uncle Sams wishes and they restored him back in power. Aristide, on the other hand, had other plans for Haiti and her people(socialism) and started to align himself with our neighbor to the west "Fidel". This was the turning point for him and the Lavalas Family.
Uncle Sam was not going to allow this to happen and the IRI terrorist made sure of that. Question??? Why does a foreign country from the north always want to promote democracy with one hand and the other hand plotted on overthrowing a democratically elected President?
IMO, I dont think Guy Philippe and thugs had enough resources to have pulled this off if it was not for the help of the North. Thus, the bloodshed and chaos would not have been like it is today..Again, after they destroyed my country nothing is being done to fix it.just apologies and guilt..yeah right??? this was the plan from the beginning..mission accomplished.....
The comments you've made wanting us to believe the people from the north did us a favor or justice. Are you serious?? Meanwhile all have left haiti to other countries to promote democracy..This is another testimony to the world that people from the north are not sincere about this democracy propaganda..Democracy for whom? The world is watching!!!
Nals,
what can I say your assessment appears to be accurate dont have nothing to say regarding your post but We haitian people can weather the worst storm but question you should ask yourself is "Can the people from the north take another blow"...Honestly this democracy campaign is only making the whole world a dangerous place..
Rick how can the future of the country depend on its people when you have groups such as the IRI meddling in other countries affairs..Can you imagine haitian/DR government campaigning for the canditate of their interest in the US elections..hmm!!! Seems absurd, right? Well, Why don't they stay the HELL out of our affairs..meanwhile they are passing anti immigration laws to keep immigrants they've oppressed in their own country out of the North......
MR DR.
If you don't have anything to discuss regarding this post have some chicharron de pollo y una cerveza and stay out of mature debates..'ta bien
I agree with most of your comments regarding presidents usually taking the fall and are usually doing what is suggested by his/her cabinet. I agree with everything you stated until the point you get to the topic of haiti.
Now was Aristide groomed to become a president...I dont think so either but you have to give the guy credit for trying.. Aristide in my own opinion had good intentions his first time around and did alot for the poor mass. He decentralized educational system and gave millions of poor people, for the first time, an opportunity to attend school. Now the problem arised when Aristide tried to close the gap from the have & the have nots too fast which resulted the first coup d'etat...Now while in USA he agreed to Uncle Sams wishes and they restored him back in power. Aristide, on the other hand, had other plans for Haiti and her people(socialism) and started to align himself with our neighbor to the west "Fidel". This was the turning point for him and the Lavalas Family.
Uncle Sam was not going to allow this to happen and the IRI terrorist made sure of that. Question??? Why does a foreign country from the north always want to promote democracy with one hand and the other hand plotted on overthrowing a democratically elected President?
IMO, I dont think Guy Philippe and thugs had enough resources to have pulled this off if it was not for the help of the North. Thus, the bloodshed and chaos would not have been like it is today..Again, after they destroyed my country nothing is being done to fix it.just apologies and guilt..yeah right??? this was the plan from the beginning..mission accomplished.....
The comments you've made wanting us to believe the people from the north did us a favor or justice. Are you serious?? Meanwhile all have left haiti to other countries to promote democracy..This is another testimony to the world that people from the north are not sincere about this democracy propaganda..Democracy for whom? The world is watching!!!
Nals,
what can I say your assessment appears to be accurate dont have nothing to say regarding your post but We haitian people can weather the worst storm but question you should ask yourself is "Can the people from the north take another blow"...Honestly this democracy campaign is only making the whole world a dangerous place..
Rick how can the future of the country depend on its people when you have groups such as the IRI meddling in other countries affairs..Can you imagine haitian/DR government campaigning for the canditate of their interest in the US elections..hmm!!! Seems absurd, right? Well, Why don't they stay the HELL out of our affairs..meanwhile they are passing anti immigration laws to keep immigrants they've oppressed in their own country out of the North......
MR DR.
If you don't have anything to discuss regarding this post have some chicharron de pollo y una cerveza and stay out of mature debates..'ta bien
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If there is anything impressive about Haiti is that the country continue to exist.Quisqueya said:
I don't think there are many countries in the world (DR included) that could weather the blows and defeats Haiti has been through and still manage to exist.
That is impressive. If only such determination to remain sovereign moved to other aspects such as moderately good self governing, defining a plan for rebuilding the country, and finally realizing that coups and revolution does absolutely nothing to help the country.
In general, people always blame outsiders for problems and sometimes outsiders do create the problems and other times outsiders exacerbate the problems. With Haiti, I think its a little of both.
But, what people in general needs to come to terms with is this:
Outside influence will always be a part of the existance of countries like Haiti. Instead of blaming the outsiders for the problems (however justifiable or not), they must learn to live with such intrusions. Once people learn to cope with such intrusions, they will be able to focus their energy and ideas into bettering themselves.
-NALs
Aegap,
I dont get you..Your family are yola takers campesinos from S.P. de Macoris that were invisible in the real dominican society and you have the nerve to complain about haitians in the DR. Alrighty then..just as many puerto ricans have helped dominicans in the PR their are also good hearted dominicans helping haitians..
So what's your issue with haitians in the DR..Ya veo, you went on vacation to your hometown with hiphop gear to impress that girl you had a crush on and was turned down because she was now with el negrito Jean and not interested in a tiguere that speak Spanglish and listen to rap...pobrecito negro..si tu.un negro de S.P. de Macoris..dime tu eres un pelotero? Hit that ball hard negrito you can make it to the big leagues too..
Yes I am in the USA like you and in the same state but not N. Newark where its only safe to walk the streets in the day time...So you feel like your somebody..Oye, todovia eres un campesino en tu patria..I know it hurts..not to have your own country provide you with section 8 and give you tarjetas de creditos to run up and make you FEEL as if you accomplished algo..only if the DR could give you a helping hand...NOT!!! no welfare for u!!!
We come from different classes Aegap..I always had a visa to come to this USA and didn't have to sneak in this great country illegal.. I didn't learn english an ESL class on Bloomfield Ave nor did I have thugs hanging out on my corner or chased after by them..I don't get financial aid and came here with a degree working along other foreignors with a great education thus I don't have to feel thankful but I do love this country too for its concept although that is rapidly changing..
To sum it up all your pride ranting about you being dominican is done because deep down you know you are just a 'mocoso' getting by in your tiny little world and only feel important once a year..that's when you go back to S.P. de Macoris...but you get upset everytime you see el negrito Jean besando la mujer de tus suenos!!!
No hard feeling but someone need to let you know the truth...only if united states stop giving these campesinos too much free aid they would know their position...
I dont get you..Your family are yola takers campesinos from S.P. de Macoris that were invisible in the real dominican society and you have the nerve to complain about haitians in the DR. Alrighty then..just as many puerto ricans have helped dominicans in the PR their are also good hearted dominicans helping haitians..
So what's your issue with haitians in the DR..Ya veo, you went on vacation to your hometown with hiphop gear to impress that girl you had a crush on and was turned down because she was now with el negrito Jean and not interested in a tiguere that speak Spanglish and listen to rap...pobrecito negro..si tu.un negro de S.P. de Macoris..dime tu eres un pelotero? Hit that ball hard negrito you can make it to the big leagues too..
Yes I am in the USA like you and in the same state but not N. Newark where its only safe to walk the streets in the day time...So you feel like your somebody..Oye, todovia eres un campesino en tu patria..I know it hurts..not to have your own country provide you with section 8 and give you tarjetas de creditos to run up and make you FEEL as if you accomplished algo..only if the DR could give you a helping hand...NOT!!! no welfare for u!!!
We come from different classes Aegap..I always had a visa to come to this USA and didn't have to sneak in this great country illegal.. I didn't learn english an ESL class on Bloomfield Ave nor did I have thugs hanging out on my corner or chased after by them..I don't get financial aid and came here with a degree working along other foreignors with a great education thus I don't have to feel thankful but I do love this country too for its concept although that is rapidly changing..
To sum it up all your pride ranting about you being dominican is done because deep down you know you are just a 'mocoso' getting by in your tiny little world and only feel important once a year..that's when you go back to S.P. de Macoris...but you get upset everytime you see el negrito Jean besando la mujer de tus suenos!!!
No hard feeling but someone need to let you know the truth...only if united states stop giving these campesinos too much free aid they would know their position...
aegap said:
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You need to see a doctor to help you with that complex of yours...
The funny thing is you accuse me of stereotyping Hatians, been a well off Dominican and not identifying with the rest.... New Jersey, huh?....Did I strike a cord?
At least I can go back to my barrio. Have you tried going back to Haiti.....tell me, tell me please, did you get kidnap yet?
The funny thing is you accuse me of stereotyping Hatians, been a well off Dominican and not identifying with the rest.... New Jersey, huh?....Did I strike a cord?
At least I can go back to my barrio. Have you tried going back to Haiti.....tell me, tell me please, did you get kidnap yet?
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Take a look on how he/she has stereotyped all Dominicans.
I'm all for discussing on the merits of the situation, which I was doing before he/she started to personally attack me.
I have rebutted his/her arguments, but Quisqueya prefers to resort to personal attacks.
I'm all for discussing on the merits of the situation, which I was doing before he/she started to personally attack me.
I have rebutted his/her arguments, but Quisqueya prefers to resort to personal attacks.
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Quisqueya,
Let me first state that I never put pres Aristide down and do in fact give him a lot of credit for trying. The problem lies in the fact that by not being groomed prior to taking office he essentially had no idea as to what he was doing. Yes his intensions were good but all his 'yes' men were in fact just filling their own pockets at the expense of the Haitian populace and he had no idea as to how to or want to rid himself of the corrupt military leaders and police that seemed to be left overs from the Pappa Doc and Baby Doc regimes and it was these people, along with the economic elite, that did him out in 1991.
I must admit that the 1991 embargo imposed by the OAS was cruel for the Haitians as a whole. From 91 to 92 - 41,342 Haitians were rescued at sea by the US Coast Guard and this may have been in part due to the embargo but it was also in part due to the unconstitutional military de facto regime that ousted Aristide in the first place.
So looking back at history we see 22 changes of government from 1843 till 1915 and things in all this time were screwed up. We have the 57 to 86 Duvalier family dictatorship then in 87 you ratify a constitution and after 5 years of rule by a series of provisional governments you finally have an election in 91 and elect Aristide who gets to serve for less then a year and then a coup d' ?tat. After 3 years in exile Aristide regains power but he still can't get it together and in 1995 pres Preval is elected and the country struggles till the next election in 2000. Now at this point I must ask you if you honestly think the 2000 elections, which all major opposition parties boycotted and voter participation was estimated at only 5%, was fair?Regardless Aristide was elected again and another coup d' ?tat followed in 2004. Does this sound about right?
Now let us run through this time line again. In 1915 an "outside" influence, force, intervention takes place and the US occupies Haiti till 1934. In this time frame things get better, not perfect but better, in Haiti. In 1991 after the coup d' ?tat "outside" influence, force, intervention takes place and the US offers Aristide refuge while he is in exile. In 1994 this "outside" influence, force, intervention by the USA and the OAS allows Aristide to regain power as president and forces Cedras, Biamby and Francois to leave Haiti. In 2004 this "outside" influence, force, intervention by the USA asks Aristide if he would like a plane at his disposal to leave Haiti safely or would he rather stay in Haiti and possibly die by (Haitian) hands. Does this sound about right?
Do you honestly believe that the big bad North is the cause for all your problems? Your problems are within and it has been proven through history that Haitians can't get it together on their own.
Rick
Let me first state that I never put pres Aristide down and do in fact give him a lot of credit for trying. The problem lies in the fact that by not being groomed prior to taking office he essentially had no idea as to what he was doing. Yes his intensions were good but all his 'yes' men were in fact just filling their own pockets at the expense of the Haitian populace and he had no idea as to how to or want to rid himself of the corrupt military leaders and police that seemed to be left overs from the Pappa Doc and Baby Doc regimes and it was these people, along with the economic elite, that did him out in 1991.
I must admit that the 1991 embargo imposed by the OAS was cruel for the Haitians as a whole. From 91 to 92 - 41,342 Haitians were rescued at sea by the US Coast Guard and this may have been in part due to the embargo but it was also in part due to the unconstitutional military de facto regime that ousted Aristide in the first place.
So looking back at history we see 22 changes of government from 1843 till 1915 and things in all this time were screwed up. We have the 57 to 86 Duvalier family dictatorship then in 87 you ratify a constitution and after 5 years of rule by a series of provisional governments you finally have an election in 91 and elect Aristide who gets to serve for less then a year and then a coup d' ?tat. After 3 years in exile Aristide regains power but he still can't get it together and in 1995 pres Preval is elected and the country struggles till the next election in 2000. Now at this point I must ask you if you honestly think the 2000 elections, which all major opposition parties boycotted and voter participation was estimated at only 5%, was fair?Regardless Aristide was elected again and another coup d' ?tat followed in 2004. Does this sound about right?
Now let us run through this time line again. In 1915 an "outside" influence, force, intervention takes place and the US occupies Haiti till 1934. In this time frame things get better, not perfect but better, in Haiti. In 1991 after the coup d' ?tat "outside" influence, force, intervention takes place and the US offers Aristide refuge while he is in exile. In 1994 this "outside" influence, force, intervention by the USA and the OAS allows Aristide to regain power as president and forces Cedras, Biamby and Francois to leave Haiti. In 2004 this "outside" influence, force, intervention by the USA asks Aristide if he would like a plane at his disposal to leave Haiti safely or would he rather stay in Haiti and possibly die by (Haitian) hands. Does this sound about right?
Do you honestly believe that the big bad North is the cause for all your problems? Your problems are within and it has been proven through history that Haitians can't get it together on their own.
Rick
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Came across this link and thought I would post it. As Paul Harvey would say " now the rest of the story". Enjoy and pick apart if you wish.
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/1-29-06 Statement on New York Times Article.pdf
Rick
Edited to add this link;
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/12-15-05-We cannot abandon Haiti again Globe and Mail.pdf
And this;
http://www.haitigetinvolved.com/
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/1-29-06 Statement on New York Times Article.pdf
Rick
Edited to add this link;
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/12-15-05-We cannot abandon Haiti again Globe and Mail.pdf
And this;
http://www.haitigetinvolved.com/
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GUYS WHAT HAITI IS GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW IS AN ACTUAL REVOLUTION. THE STRONG BLACK PEOPLE THAT WE ARE, WE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS REVOLUTION SINCE THE FIRST DAY THEY TOOK THE AFRICANS INTO SLAVERY. iT WILL NEVER AND i REPEAT IT WILL NEVER END UNTIL RACISM IS CRUSHED. HAITI WILL CONTINUE TO SURVIVE THRU THIS BEING THAT WE WERE STRONG ENOUGH TO END PHYSICAL SLAVERY NOW THEY WILL END MENTAL SLAVERY. WHEN ITS DONE HAITIANS WILL BE A NEW BREED OF BLACK PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY COME FROM. JUST GET THIS POINT ALL OF YOU I DOMINICAN AND HAITIAN ALIKE "A COUNTRY CANNOT BE 95% BLACK AFRICAN BLOOD AND 5 % MULATTO AND SYRIAN. AND THE 5 % HAS MORE WEALTH AND POWER THEN THE WHOLE MASS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
- Status