- Thread starter donP
- Start date
Old Inverter Batteries
Now, it would be great to have some US battery guru's post here and tell me whether the US245-200 (as the importer in SD calls it) is also 'starved'...
So far I found this:
Starved Cell (Battery) - A cell containing little or no free fluid electrolyte solution. This enables gasses to reach electrode surfaces readily, and permits relative high rates of recombination.
Recombination (Battery) - State in which the hydrogen and oxygen gasses normally formed within the battery cell during charging are recombined to form water.
donP
Im NOT any sort of expert, but IMO something is definitely not right if your batteries are only lasting 3-5 years..
My latest Pair of TRUCK batteries turned 10 years old last year and are going strong and that is for one simple reason
.. the fluid levels have to be constantly checked, but not just the Levels , You need to check each battery cell by cell , with a Hydromenter.. that is the ONLY way to know the real condition of a battery .. A lenghtly process Im sure especially with such a large Bank of batteries. which is why I am guessing NO ONE wants to do the Maintenance required ?!? .
Buy acid in a blastic bag , to top off as needed and then RE check the specific Gravity with a Hydrometer . All cells need to be right. Dont just pour Distilled water in there and assume its ok... ..
and U would be surprsed at the difference from ONE CELL to the Next in the same battery .
thats all it takes , ONE bad Cell and the battery will die very quickly , especially if you are deep cycling it..
no way I would tolerate a 3- 5 year Life out of such expensive Batteries.
and once the plates are damaged ( not sure what its called, Sulfated ? ) they can not be recovered . all that stuff about restoration/ reconditioning batteries is pure garbage, imo..
but if you maintain the levels, check with Hydrometer.. batteries should last 7++ years .
Now maybe someone who specialized in SOLAR power battery banks will chime in and say NO thats not accurate. and that may be so but I dont see how it could be so radically different for a Solar vs used almost every single day Truck battery.
A lot of what you say is completely inaccurate regarding wet cell lead acid batteries. A car or truck battery is designed to deliver high amperage for a short time. It uses thin lead plates for this short term capacity. They don't like a large number of deep discharges.
A deep cycle battery is designed with thick plates and can be deeply discharged a much higher number of times before it is destroyed.
You should never add battery acid to a battery unless some has spilled out. Adding battery acid will shorten the batteries life by changing the specific gravity adversely.. Only add distilled water wet cell lead acid batteries for maintenance.
Three to five years of life in the DR is very good for the application deep cycle batteries must support here. Yes, one common failure mode is sulphation of the plates.. The greater the number of discharge/charge cycles and the deep they go in discharge, the greater the amount of sulphation.
hi you dont say if you top off w/acid all the time or at the first checks...and are your batteries for a truck(used on one an automotive battery) because everyone says dont add acid after first filling...checking toppping off...
Well if 3 year lifespan is average, then SOLAR is an even WORSE deal than I thought How much is such a Battery bank ? $2K usd ?+ I cant even use that much Electricity in a year. so the amortization on the battieries is 3 years .. not such a good deal especially when added to all the other costs..
I understand what you mean about deep cycle batteries, we just bought 4 for a boat..they are not cheap either.
As to adding Acid.. maybe i expressed it incorrectly, but i beg to differ.
because its the stuff they used to GIVE you to put IN an empty battery when they used to ship them that way, it lasts for many years. Decades in fact, i think, and how can it possibly be bad to add the same Electolyte solution that is in the battery to begin with ?
here is what it says on the Box I just went and checked..
Electrolyte (Acid)
VN 2796
Specific Gravity 1.265
East Penn MFG Co, Lyon PA 19536
DOT 12B30
So please Explain to me how adding this solution could be bad for my Battery which is 10 years old and going strong, because my experience contradict what you just said..
Are newer batteries using a different non Acid Electolyte ? if so i was not aware of it.
I understand what you mean about deep cycle batteries, we just bought 4 for a boat..they are not cheap either.
As to adding Acid.. maybe i expressed it incorrectly, but i beg to differ.
because its the stuff they used to GIVE you to put IN an empty battery when they used to ship them that way, it lasts for many years. Decades in fact, i think, and how can it possibly be bad to add the same Electolyte solution that is in the battery to begin with ?
here is what it says on the Box I just went and checked..
Electrolyte (Acid)
VN 2796
Specific Gravity 1.265
East Penn MFG Co, Lyon PA 19536
DOT 12B30
So please Explain to me how adding this solution could be bad for my Battery which is 10 years old and going strong, because my experience contradict what you just said..
Are newer batteries using a different non Acid Electolyte ? if so i was not aware of it.
jd426
re-read the earlier posts.... page 1 -
battery life can be much longer than this 3 yr example
re-read the earlier posts.... page 1 -
battery life can be much longer than this 3 yr example
I would think, that to maximize the life of a set of batteries supplying backup power to a house during a blackout, having a set containing more batteries would be better than a just enough batteries to meet the need. For example if a set of four will power your house for 6 hours before the lights go out and the average power interruption is 4 hours, those batteries are heavily discharged each time. In this case, having a set of 8 batteries will not only keep the lights on longer than 6 hours should the need ever arise, but during those regular 4 hour outages the entire set sustains 50% less discharge. Adding another 4 batteries would further reduce the discharge that any one battery needs to sustain. Sure some batteries are undoubtedly better suited to this type of application, some are manufactured better but as a general rule can it not be said that the more batteries you have available to share the load, the longer each battery will eventually last up to a point as each charge discharge cycle no matter how small does count towards the maximum number of cycles before any battery is unable to deliver its voltage for an acceptable amount of time? If this is the case then then should the focus of discussion not be shifted from the best or worst battery to how many batteries as the performance shortcommings of US Battery vs Trojan vs some other brand can be marginalized by a function of quantity over absolute quality?
Rasputin,
that is my thinking and it works well for me.
Mine is not just backup - batteries are my sole source of power.
I cannot have enough, in my opinion.
that is my thinking and it works well for me.
Mine is not just backup - batteries are my sole source of power.
I cannot have enough, in my opinion.
Life Cycles
We have always had (for 20 years) battery power, never 'la luz de la calle'.
This graph shows the relation between life cycles and depth of discharge (DoD)*:
We are going to swap in the new batteries today; the old T-105 have done about 1,800 cycles (in harsh conditions before we went solar).
*)
Taken from a US Battery spec sheet.
donP
We have always had (for 20 years) battery power, never 'la luz de la calle'.
This graph shows the relation between life cycles and depth of discharge (DoD)*:
We are going to swap in the new batteries today; the old T-105 have done about 1,800 cycles (in harsh conditions before we went solar).
*)
Taken from a US Battery spec sheet.
donP
Flooded lead acid cells have been around for many years, and little has changed. The acid put into a new battery (either by the factory or the end user) should never be re-added to the battery unless some is spilled out. The original acid never "goes away" unless some is spilled out accidentally.
The reason is that it adversely changes the chemistry of the battery. The battery acid solution is carefully chosen to provide the correct balance between the lead plates and electrolyte as the battery is charged and discharged over many cycles. If you add more acid, you will change that chemistry and damage the battery.
Only add distilled water to a flooded lead acid battery for maintenance.
Going solar is not cheap. You have batteries that are $100 to $150 each for flooded lead acid T 105 size (considerably more for Gel batteries) that need to be replaced periodically, solar panels, charge controllers, inverter, support hardware, wiring and installation.
Many people that go solar because they have no choice, they have a poor grid supply, or the costs eventually can be recovered. Of course there are those who are "green" and don't care about cost.
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Agua Bidestilada
Correct.
We use Agua Bidestilada bought from a Lab.
It comes in gallons and is cheaper than what is sold elsewhere (which I do not trust).
donP
Correct.
We use Agua Bidestilada bought from a Lab.
It comes in gallons and is cheaper than what is sold elsewhere (which I do not trust).
donP
You do make a valid point about adding more batteries to reduce the discharge level in order to extend the life of the battery bank. If you do, make sure they are connected correctly with high quality large capacity wire to minimize the differences between the battery banks. If one battery bank out of say 4 goes out of wack, you could damage all of the batteries.
Vendor information I have read, suggests not having more than two chains of batteries because of potential imbalances, yet posters here have four chains and are happy with that.
Guy's ---- just a question , What would be wrong instead of using Inverter systems and going through this Battery process every 3-5 years +/- go with a Whisper Quiet Propane Powered generator, yes I know we don't have underground piped Propane, but certainly larger Storage bottles are available & several can be paralleled together for capacity. There are also Co-Generation Units that produce Electricity & also as a by-product can generate Domestic Hot Water, for those who would need it.
I know two people that brought in Propane generators as back up. These were from the US and appeared to be of good quality. Neither lasted more than a year or two.
Using an inverter/battery system is usually much more cost effective than a generator if you have frequent blackouts.
my friend had similar problems w/ propane generator here in Cabrera.
I have nothing but bad news about them.
in Canada, on Lake Huron, I have a natural gas generator.... works well.
Many power outages on the Great Lakes..
Battery systems are passive, Sergio...... we run our diesel genertor here on cloudy days for a few hours to top up.
I have nothing but bad news about them.
in Canada, on Lake Huron, I have a natural gas generator.... works well.
Many power outages on the Great Lakes..
Battery systems are passive, Sergio...... we run our diesel genertor here on cloudy days for a few hours to top up.