pelo wars

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Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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Exxtol said:
Originally Posted by Pib
It may be cheaper to go natural but it sure ain't easier.
It's just as easy to manage as straight hair, once people with this hair type come to the realization that it will never look, feel, or shine like straight hair--it's not supposed to! It's difficult when people try and manipulate it into something it's not and when they subject it to the same type of care as straight hair, i.e. using a comb when they should be using their fingers.
It is not your fault that you misunderstood me. I will now rub together my last two remaining braincells and try to explain myself better.

Having kinky or wavy hair is not easier, as in "it is just as difficult to manage as straight hair". Having long hair is a PITA whatever color and texture. Now, what is unarguably, objectively better is to have short hair. I know, I once had very, VERY short hair.

My hair goes from curly to wavy (depending on meteorological conditions) and I've found that the ONLY easy way to do it is very short. But that would cost me a lot of money in weekly haircuts.

So, what was my point? Hmm... I think it had something to do with there not being "easier" hair. Just easier lenghts. Or something...
 

deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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Mike what are you talking about? Hair dries up with use of hand-held blow dryer, but a sit down old school hair dryer is actually healthier for your hair. Constantly air drying our hair types is actually equally damaging because it creates split ends. I am all about my rolos in the winter and go natural in the summer. My hair is very healthy.


MrMike said:
I think it's a shame Dominican women spend so much time burning their hair every week, I think there must be many more creative and less destructive ways to express vanity and maybe a little bit of self-loathing, but whatever, it's their hair.

Let'm cook it constantly and then wonder why it gets so brittle.
 

RHM

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Mirador said:
Scandall said:
And enough with the Taino stuff. I have never heard of ANYONE claiming to have Taino blood. If anything you hear them profess their "rich Spanish heritage"...QUOTE]

Scandall, do you mean that because a heritage has been mostly underreported and unrecognized, and thus ?unclaimed? as you say, it does not exist? Then what about your ?outlaw? ancestor, hanged for high crimes, and well hidden from posterity for obvious reason, is he not part of your gene pool? It is a known historical fact that Spaniards mixed freely with the aboriginal Taino population, and 50 years from the Conquest the great majority of the population of the Western part of Hispaniola was of mixed (mestizo) Indian and European stock. Are you saying that the Taino blood ?evaporated? so to speak over time? to the point that there?s no more Taino blood in the DR population?

Yes. Over the centuries it has been pretty much thinned out. Is there still a drop or two? Perhaps. But not enough to get special authorization for a tax free casino. :)

Exactly which of my "outlaw ancestors" are you referring to? I have many.

Scandall
"Outlaw Descendent"
 

deelt

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Hair that is constantly relaxed/straightened tends to become damaged over time. Too many chemicals. When you stop putting that kind of damaging junk in your hair you can start to recover the hair's natural moisture.
This kind of hair is also more malleable. You can do cute hair puffs, pull back 'fro, braids, etc. There is a multitude of beautiful things you can do.
If you don't consider it beautiful that's your perogative. But don't impose your "different" point of view on these folks.

People should be proud of what God has blessed them with. There are multitudes of white women all across the world trying to perm their hair to make it look curly/kinky. Straight hair is just BORING. Cury/Kinky hair is exciting and can look regal is well managed. People who have learned this little secret no longer look like they put their hair in an electrical socket, overdrying their hair, to make it look straight.


AZB said:
I Its logical to have straight hair, its easily manageable and looks more beautiful No one wants curly, kinky african hair, not even africans. So stop kidding yourself. You can't comb kinky hair, it has no form or style, you have to keep them trim (in case of guys) and women have to visit salons everyweek to have them straightened out. So tell me why someone should be so proud to have bad hair? AZB
 

Mirador

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Scandall said:
Yes. Over the centuries it has been pretty much thinned out. Is there still a drop or two? Perhaps. But not enough to get special authorization for a tax free casino. :) Exactly which of my "outlaw ancestors" are you referring to? I have many. Scandall "Outlaw Descendent"

So it is the Taino blood that has 'thinned out', and not the Spaniard or African? Can I assume that you believe that Spaniard and African blood is somehow more 'viscous' or resilient than Taino, and as such more durable? You are fjoding in racist territory here. You obviously don't like American aboriginals, considering your mention of 'tax free casino'.
 

RHM

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Mirador said:
So it is the Taino blood that has 'thinned out', and not the Spaniard or African? Can I assume that you believe that Spaniard and African blood is somehow more 'viscous' or resilient than Taino, and as such more durable? You are fjoding in racist territory here. You obviously don't like American aboriginals, considering your mention of 'tax free casino'.

My mention of tax free casinos was because anyone who has a clue about the current state of Native Americans would be aware of the many cases of fraud when it comes to proving their ancestry. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like them. Nice try though. Keep'm coming.

As for the durability of Taino blood. <sigh> Start with the number of Tainos that were here...subtract those who were killed outright or worked to death....now subtract those who died of diseases introduced by the "Colombian Exchange" to which they had no immunity....go Google "Colombian Exchange" if you need to...then keep adding Europeans and Africans and remember that you cannot add any more Tainos...of course, Europe and Africa had a seemingly endless supply...now tell me which blood is more likely to thin....I am not being racist....if you keep adding ice and coke to your glass but no Brugal...soon you will not have a Cuba Libre...this is not difficult.

Scandall
 

Mirador

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Scandall said:
...As for the durability of Taino blood. <sigh> Start with the number of Tainos that were here...subtract those who were killed outright or worked to death....now subtract those who died of diseases introduced by the "Colombian Exchange" to which they had no immunity....go Google "Colombian Exchange" if you need to...then keep adding Europeans and Africans and remember that you cannot add any more Tainos...of course, Europe and Africa had a seemingly endless supply...now tell me which blood is more likely to thin....I am not being racist....if you keep adding ice and coke to your glass but no Brugal...soon you will not have a Cuba Libre...this is not difficult. Scandall

Nice try, but you are still wrong. You assume that the original mestizo population died out and did not produce offsprings. This was not the case, Actually, most of DR's current population is descendent of these original mestizos with slight later additions of Africans and Europeans. By the way, I found a picture of one of your 'outlaw' long lost relatives. Look familiar? ;-)
 
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RHM

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Mirador said:
Nice try, but you are still wrong. You assume that the original mestizo population died out and did not produce offsprings. This was not the case, Actually, most of DR's current population is descendent of these original mestizos with slight later additions of Africans and Europeans. By the way, I found a picture of one of your 'outlaw' long lost relatives. Look familiar? ;-)

Amazing. My ancestor looks nothing like me. :)

Scandall
 

Exxtol

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Scandall said:
My mention of tax free casinos was because anyone who has a clue about the current state of Native Americans would be aware of the many cases of fraud when it comes to proving their ancestry. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like them. Nice try though. Keep'm coming.

As for the durability of Taino blood. <sigh> Start with the number of Tainos that were here...subtract those who were killed outright or worked to death....now subtract those who died of diseases introduced by the "Colombian Exchange" to which they had no immunity....go Google "Colombian Exchange" if you need to...then keep adding Europeans and Africans and remember that you cannot add any more Tainos...of course, Europe and Africa had a seemingly endless supply...now tell me which blood is more likely to thin....I am not being racist....if you keep adding ice and coke to your glass but no Brugal...soon you will not have a Cuba Libre...this is not difficult.

Scandall


Well said.
 

Exxtol

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Mirador said:
Actually, most of DR's current population is descendent of these original mestizos with slight later additions of Africans and Europeans.

Do you have multiple sources to back this claim? For I have seen hundreds of sources that state otherwise.
 

NALs

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AZB said:
I just don't know what the big fuss is all about? In domincian republic we have 2 kinds of hair: the "good" hair and the "bad" hair. All dominicans, black, taino or white know what everyone is talking about. The straight hair is the good hair and the kinky african hair is the bad hair.
AZB
That's what I always have known and based on what people who perceive their hair to be "bad", the reason its considered bad is because its hard to manage.

If that is the case, then the notion of good hair and bad hair is being taken out of context in most discussions, because people (on DR1 at least) are implying that the notion of good hair and bad hair is a way of making the "european" straight hair more desirable over the "african" kinky hair. This is despite that straight hair and kinky hair is not exclusive to europeans or africans respectively.

But, of course, there are people who don't take the time to understand how cultures evolve and the such, just how the notion of race is often debated here.

We got North Americans claiming that one blood of african blood is enough to make a person "black", just how in Mexico and Guatemala one drop of indian blood simply adds to the indian population, but in much of the Caribbean and Brazil, most mixtures are clearly defined (ie. mulatto, octoroon, etc). In fact, the Caribbean and Brazil have the most ability for non-whites to accend to powerful positions than other areas of Latin America by simply improving their education, class, and the such. The darkest of the darkest would be considered better than a white person if the dark person has good education, class, and the such and a white person does not.

Remember the old addage, a rich black man is white and a poor white man is black, that is attributable only to the Caribbean and Brazilian regions. Thus, the notion of being black is not about actually being black, but rather being poor, and in order to differentiate an educated, wealthy, honorable black person from a poor black person, a different term had to come into existence, a term that was something other than black because the term black had connotations of being poor by the time blacks and mulattos started to gain power and wealth and education. The same applies to whites, where poor whites are seen some how less white than rich whites, the same thing applies here.

This is also a region where popular sayings includes "behind every one's ear is a little black, we are all the same color when the lights are out, or everyone has a black great grandmother and the such" Why would such saying evolve in places being branded as "in denial"?

This is not the case in North America (between whites and blacks) or in Mexico, Central America, and some South American countries (predominantly between whites and indios) where a person is subjected to a particular categorization by blood and not social status.

In this hemisphere, the issue of hair, race, skin color, etc is based on blood and genes except in the Caribbean and Brazil where such notions are based on social status, not on actual bloodlines, except at the very top of the upper crusts, ie. tutumpoles who concern themselves with their ancestry.

Only in the Caribbean or Brazil can an non-white person remove his/her categorization simply by improving his/her education, social status, or wealth. In the rest of this hemisphere, it does not matter what a person does, he/she will continue to be considered white or black or indio regardless and those terms have their good and bad implications which are evident in the issues those societies face regarding this topic among others.


Think of this on these more understandable terms, when a poor person gains wealth, his is no longer categorized as poor, but rich. The same is the case with race and skin color and hair type here, it has nothing to do with genes and blood lines, but simply social status.

In Great Britian, it does not matter how much class or money a person has, if he or she was not born into the upper class, he/she will never be considered upper class even if he/she has more money, class, and education than most upper class people. That is an example of categorization based on blood lines and perhaps race, unlike here where all you need is some education, some money, and some class and you will be readily accepted among circles of the upper classes regardless if your skin color is white, black, olive, yellow, whatever.

The same applies to hair and the notion that many foreigners don't understand this concept is due to the obvious foreigness of this ideology, just how their own beliefs are foreign to us.

-NAL
 
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ze pequeno

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yah!

I've read most of the posts in this thread and here's my take: For starters, those who're under the impression that natural/ sub saharan afro textured hair is more difficult to manage than straight hair, really don't know afro hair. There's a myriad of well- known natural hairstyles for people of african descent(fill in degree) and many are"get up and go" yup.......... natural afro textured hair doesn't fall out of place as easily as others. Also, afro textured hair grows fast and there's no reason that it can't drop below shoulder length(depending upon style).

Contrary to the opinions of some here, I happen to love my"black hair" and view the black american barbers that I've encountered as true artists, who can often cut & mold black hair to perfection. The line-ups and fades are their specialties and it isn't uncommon to find whites, hispanics and asians who frequent such shops for this reason.

As for the ladies with afro hair who decide to keep it natural, I say................kudos! Women who're of african descent spend countless billions of dollars yearly straightening their hair. Some use chemicals that burn holes in their scalps and others use hot-combs that burn them with intense heat. A break from these things has got to be a major relief.

lil ze
 
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wildnfree

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What's race got to do, go to do with it?

Im white.

I have curly wavy hair. It is hard to manage. Thus I straighten it. And after it is straight, it stays in place, looks good and tidy. When it was curly, it would go wherever it wanted - no matter how much products I put in it.

I dont straighten it so people wont mistake me as african (which would never happen anyway) or cause I want to look like another ethnic group. It simply is easier to manage!
 

T.O.N.Y

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Is there a racial element to it?? I don't know, what I do know that this problem doesn't only apply to the D.R. Even in America Afro-Americans like to straighten out their hair, can't tell me otherwise I've lived here since I was 6. Take a trip around Harlem, count how many Black women have an Afro hairstyle, go to South Central, go to Mississippi, Chicago, Etc. Can't tell me that more then half of the Black American population doesn't straighten out their hair, so don't act like ya'll **** don't stink too.
Chirimoya said:
But there is a racial element there - I've read that in countries like Ecuador where the indigenous populations are at the bottom of the pile, straight hair is an undesirable feature, and everyone goes for perms. Not sure whether it's true though.
This is true, my future wife is Ecuadorian. She's praying that our child gets my hair(Sambo) that's what they call it. To them straight hair=pelo malo nappy hair=pelo bueno.
 

concon_quemao

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being the OP, I will elaborate. what i meant by straightening hair, i was referring to harsh, permanent, chemical processes used to straighten hair by many women of color, with emphasis on women of color with course or what some may consider nappy hair. btw, i know many people that have curly, frizzy, afro hair and it looks absolutely perfect.. not to mention "good and tidy." but my main question was "why is it wrong to look like a morena?"

-concon w/ the pajon

wildnfree said:
Im white.

I have curly wavy hair. It is hard to manage. Thus I straighten it. And after it is straight, it stays in place, looks good and tidy. When it was curly, it would go wherever it wanted - no matter how much products I put in it.

I dont straighten it so people wont mistake me as african (which would never happen anyway) or cause I want to look like another ethnic group. It simply is easier to manage!
 

asopao

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Pelo malo is not pc, it makes you sound " ignorant, bias,and just plain stupid ". The adjective " malo" (bad) always connotes something negative, undesirable. Thus, it is not recommended to say such a thing as " pelo malo". That combination needs to get removed from daily speech forever !

This has been ingrained for centuries, so I guess it would be easier to get rid of all of mosquitoes first
 

Flaco

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Mental enslavement

T.O.N.Y said:
Is there a racial element to it?? I don't know, what I do know that this problem doesn't only apply to the D.R. Even in America Afro-Americans like to straighten out their hair, can't tell me otherwise I've lived here since I was 6. Take a trip around Harlem, count how many Black women have an Afro hairstyle, go to South Central, go to Mississippi, Chicago, Etc. Can't tell me that more then half of the Black American population doesn't straighten out their hair, so don't act like ya'll **** don't stink too.

Yes, the problem does exist in the US, as in the DR, and as in any other country where the people of African descent were oppressed by people of European descent. It is a simple case of wanting what the master has, power. And power was, and is, associated with what the "master" has. If the master has light skin, then the oppressed want light skin; straight hair, cars, jewelry, and the list goes on. Thus, the great cycle of wanting to be, or have, something that is not necessarily your own continues.
 
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